AVR decision Onkyo905 vs Denon 4308ci help please!

[strutter]

This thread may be useful in contemplating the value of HDMI 1.3.: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994&page=1&pp=30

yes i am well aware of that thread.

[strutter]

of course the 905 cant compare with the 5308ci. but then it is $5000.

[Zen Traveler]

of course the 905 cant compare with the 5308ci. but then it is $5000.

I agree. I also stand by my observation of your comment above. FWIW, I hope the Onkyo 905 can compete with the Denon AVR 4806 because I like paying less for quality components. ;-)

[Canadian_Dude]

I would like to see what the new Denon's GUI menu looks like and what the Onkyo's on-screen menu looks like. I have an Onkyo that doesn't have an on-screen menu and my Denon has the boring old black and white menu. I have seen a few pictures of it that look awesome but I am not sure if they will actually look like that. I think it would be nice if the ipod menu was changed for the ASD-1R so that it looks more like the one on the ipod. I use my ipod a lot and I hate how long it takes to scroll though artists or albums to find a song.

[TauRus]

i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. those onkyo specs. look amazing. they pretty much just did everything a step better than denon component wise. i sort of wonder what posessed denon to seamingly skimp on the components. i mean they used an older DAC, older video chip and from what i've been told around the web the older models have much better audio portions than these newer models. perhaps they were relying on tried and true assuming less technical problems after introduced to market. i'm going to see how everything plays out with both of them, wait on some pro reviews. and maybe get the onkyo and try it out. but i need something before october. thats when an ISF calibrator will be tweaking my XBR2 and it is said he does magic with audio too.

I think one of the most common mistakes buyers make is purchasing by reviewing the specs. You can have identical specs on two different models and yet they would perform differently. Implementation, circuitry design play a big role. Also, do not put too much weight into the video circuitry built into the receivers - most of the video signals will already be delivered to the reciever in high resolution (let's say, HD cable, Blu-Ray, upscaled SD DVD). Most of the time these AVRs will utilize their built-in video circuitry while upscaling SD cable signals or signal from some miscellaneous video sources like camcorders, etc. Now given that most of that SD video material is not really HD worthy, I do not really think you will gain anything in particular going REON vs Faroudja.

I tried Onkyo AVRs inthe past and although they always were well built and designed, I still walked away from them. Denon and Pioneer Elite AVRs seemed to always fit the bill for me, especially in the most important function of an AVR - in audio performance. With that, I would certainly lean closer to the Denon model, however I would not make my choice until I had a chance to listen to both.

[strutter]

you make some good points. i believe the place where the reon processing would help my video is the deinterlacing of 1080 cable. my xbr2 is said to not do a very good job with the conversion. i've been told the reon would do a better job overall than the processing in the set. it doesnt look bad to my eyes but if it can be better why not try. the faroudja processing in oppo looks good too. so if denon implemented the faroudja corectly in the 4308 it should be just as good as the oppo at least. when i get an HD player the AVR would simply do passthrough. for some reason i find myself leaning towards the onkyo but my gut feeling is to stay with denon. BTW the calibrator who is going to do my set just just did one for a guy who has the 4308ci. the user review is that it's awesome now compaired to before he calibrated the audio. the calibrator comented that he doesnt like the audyssey system in the recievers and suggest to turn that function off.

[Angel33]

Hi,

I am a Denon CI dealer and i can sell you the Denon with HUGE savings. sales@simply-remote.

AVR-4308CI Early August MRP: $2,499.00

Next Generation A/V Multi-Source/Zone, Network Streaming Receiver All new DDSC-HD Dolby TrueHD and DD+ dts-HD

Master Audio decoding HDCD decoding Features latest 32-bit Floating Analog Devices SHARC Processors 7 channels

equal power amplifier section 140 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 20kHz, <0.05% THD) Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz,

PCM-1791A DACs on all 8 channels configured in differential mode 4 Source/Zone capable, including 2 with video 1080p

Compatible HDMI 1.3a Deep Color (4/2) switching Fully assignable channels for biamping, and/or Multi-Zone applications

Assignable +12v, 150mA triggers (2) Assignable Ultra-Wideband (100 MHz) Component inputs (3) 3 Component Video

outputs (Dual Main Zone, 1 Zone 2) Analog Video to HDMI Scaling (1080p) featuring Faroudja DCDi Processing (FLi2310)

Digital to Analog conversion for Multi-Zone connection flexibility Rear panel RS-232C and Ethernet ports for Crestron/AMX

control communication Ethernet port with built-in Multi-Media Command and Control functionality Wi-Fi, 802.11b/g Certified

Windows Plays for Sure Certified Dedicated iPodTM (audio/photo/video) input (for use with optional ASD-1R iPodTM Dock,

with on-screen display and remote control DLNA Certified Remote Maintenance via Internet Audyssey MultEQ XT and

Audyssey Pro Installer Ready, calibration microphone included 7 Assignable digital inputs Denon Link 3rd USB Ports Front

and Rear AM/FM/FM Stereo tuner with auto preset FM memory (56 stations) and RDS compatibility HD Radio with Simulcast

capability XM Radio Ready XM-HD Neural Sound Decoding New GUI for Main Zone, with independent On Screen Display

for Zone 2 New EL learning/preprogrammed Remote Control Detachable Power Cord Serial IR ports Second, Multi-Zone

Remote included 2-Way Remote Control Ready (RC-7000CI/7001RCI) UPC CODE 081757508087

[Nuckle]

I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that the product page on the Denon US site has been updated.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/AVReceivers.asp

strutter you can fill in some of the missing blanks now if you care to.

I am sort of in the same situation right now. I am currently running a Denon 3806 that was hit by lightning a couple of months ago. It is still operating but has lost all inputs on HDMI2. My insurance company did not want to fix anything that had any issues and paid me replacement on all of my equipment. I have been waiting on the release of the 4308 since then. I was dissaopinted in the price point of the 4308 and the 3808. I did not expect them to be that much higher than the 4306 and 3806. Now I am caught up in trying to decide between the 4308 and 3808. The only real differences I can see in the two are 10 more watts per channel and wifi on the 4808. I just don't know that I see a $900 difference. Maybe one of you can point out something more than I am seeing. I am willing to wait a while on this purchase because I want this receiver to carry me for 4 or 5 years.

I have had others point me towards the 905. I am a huge Denon fan so I do not know that I will move away from them. When testing for my original system and listening to all the receivers in my price range (at that time a 3300) Denon was hands down the best pairing with the Klipsch speaker I chose (RF3, RC3, RS3).

Anyway, I am not trying to hijack this thread just hoping that there are more discussion on the new Denon products.

Nuck

[strutter]

yep, i noticed that the product page was up to date. the comparison page that i posted was made before all specs were released on the Denon. i didn't make the comparison page that i posted someone else did and and i found out later that the person was Onkyo fan. but nevertheless the specs that don't have ? are correct to the best of my knowledge. below is the link to comparison pages that person made for the 875 and 3808, the 805,875,905 as well as the 905,4308. one glitch that i found in his pages is that if you click the link for the reon chip. it actually links to a PDF for the realta chip which is a better chip than the reon.

http://www.theosfiles.com/zzz/receiver_compare_875_vs_3808CI.html

http://www.theosfiles.com/zzz/receiver_compare_onkyo.html

http://www.theosfiles.com/zzz/receiver_compare_905_vs_4308CI.html

I'm sort of partial to Denon myself although the 905 is making it hard to continue to be. i welcome any conversation concerning any of the new onkyos and denons.

"""Maybe one of you can point out something more than I am seeing."""

well i see that the 4308 has 4 HDMI in and 2 out, whereas the 3808 has 4 in and 1 out. the 4308 has HD radio and the 3808 doesn't. and the part numbers for the faroudja vid chips are different. there may be more. weather or not these things are worth $900 or not is totally up to the purchaser to decide the value he places on those features.

[oldbuckster]

Is there a reason why you just consider those two brands ? There are so many choices out there......and for $5,000. why not consider TUBES ? The only TRUE measure is what they sound like in YOUR room, to your ears !!!!!!!!!!!

[Nuckle]

strutter, I talked to my AV guy today and he told me that he had a 3808 in stock and on demo. He said that the set up menu was extreamly nice. I am going to go see it first hand on Monday. I may make a purchase why I am there but will for sure post back my thoughts and findings. I am not sure he can up sell me to the 4308, mainly because it may come along with divorce papers .

FYI, I have already been quoted $1,320 for the 3808 to give you an idea of the wiggle room. I will get him to quote me the 4808 as well.

Nuck

[strutter]

reply to oldbuckster

I'm considering either the onkyo905 or the Denon 4308ci. based on these being the newest units available right now, product features, specs and price. and they aren't $5000. if i wanted to spend that much there would be lots of better options. and i absolutely agree with your last sentence. but there are lots of things to consider besides sound. although sound is extremely important to me.(i do love 2 channel) sound is only the 'A' part of AVR. the 'V' part needs to be considered too. the total home theater experience involves more than a good amp. i'm looking to get the bells and whistles, the best video processing, and the best sound available in one package at an afordable price. these two fit my price ,around 2 not 5.

[oldbuckster]

reply to oldbuckster

I'm considering either the onkyo905 or the Denon 4308ci. based on these being the newest units available right now, product features, specs and price. and they aren't $5000. if i wanted to spend that much there would be lots of better options. and i absolutely agree with your last sentence. but there are lots of things to consider besides sound. although sound is extremely important to me.(i do love 2 channel) sound is only the 'A' part of AVR. the 'V' part needs to be considered too. the total home theater experience involves more than a good amp. i'm looking to get the bells and whistles, the best video processing, and the best sound available in one package at an afordable price. these two fit my price ,around 2 not 5.

And that was my arguement too about owning two systems, but now that I have Tubes for 2 channel, and a Yamaha for Home theatre, that's the only way to fly. I could get great Home Theatre out of a receiver, but two channel was lacking............and to get improved two channel, you need mega-watts to compete with Tubes.........It's a tough call...many new products have so much extra stuff you don't need, or want........Boy, I thought this hobby was suppose to be easy,and fun..............I sometimes wonder !!!!!!!!!!! Only YOU know what's best for you.............Good Luck !!!!

[Nuckle]

Well I bought the 3808ci today and got everything moved over tonight. So far I am very impressed. The GUI menu is incredible. It is like 1,000 times better than any of the previous. I did not get to listen to any music but I watched a few scenes of casino royal in bluray and I would say it is a much better reproduction in sound over my 3806. It just seems to have more detail. If the 4308ci is in your price range then I can assure you that you will love it. The 1080P up-scaling looked very good on my DTV signal over the previous 720P or 1080i connection.

Nuck

[strutter]

are you utilizing the HDMI switching? any handshake issues? have you got the network connected? please report back after listening to CD. thanks.

[el jopez]

Thank god for this thread. I'm considering the 4308ci for reasons already debated here; but I would be curious to know what you thought of the 3808.

[Nuckle]

I can answer a couple of the questions now and will address the others later.

I am using HDMI and there have been 0 issues. Everything switches perfectly and to be honest with the new programing function I did not have to set any of my HDMI devices up, they were already set up when I powered up the receiver. I had to set up a few other things but mainly because of what all I have hooked up.

PS3 via HDMI

DTV receiver via HDMI

Wii Via component

DVD2800 via component and digital coax (optical is dead out of 2800 due to lightning)

You can even re-label everything so now instead of switching to DVI or something for the PS3 I am actually switching and on screen it says PS3 or Wii or whatever.

I will listen to some music via the 2800 today and report back. Movies sound incredible so I hope music will be the same. This receiver is a good step up from the 3806 and it was not slouch.

The guy I have purchased all of my equipment from over the years pushed me away from the 4308ci. He said that he would love to make the sale but he did not feel it was worth the extra $900. As I said before, I would have had a tough time getting approval from my wife for the 4308ci so I dont want it to sound like I would have bought it otherwise. If you have the extra $900 and it is of no issue then by all means get that monster.

Speakers: RF3, RC3, RS3 and KSW12

Nuck

[Zen Traveler]

Thank god for this thread. I'm considering the 4308ci for reasons already debated here; but I would be curious to know what you thought of the 3808.

I noticed you were selling some of your stuff and am curious what you are driving your RF-7's with? You aren't talking about using only the AVR 4308 for your HT are you?

[Nuckle]

Well I listened to some music this afternoon and I thought it sounded great. The best mode was the 2.1 channel direct. Very detailed and excellent base response. I do have my RF3's bi-amped just to clarify. The best thing was taking a USB flash drive and dropping music on it. Then just plugging into the front USB port on the receiver and BAM worked like a champ. Now when friends come over and want to bring music they can just drop it on a flash drive and be done.

Another thing I really like is when you are doing anything that does not involve video the TV screen is black and has DENON in white letters slightly shaded across the screen. It looks pretty slick.

I am fired up over this 3808ci, I just cant imagine what the 4308ci would be like. No question it would be better but I am not sure how much.

One more thing to add from a distortion standpoint. I was able to adjust the volume level to the point where it was so loud that I did not want to stay in the same room with my set up woth no distortion.

The only negative that I would say and it is being picky is that the 3808ci is a little brassier than my past receivers but we are talking about klipsch titanium dome compression driver tweets.

If anyone wants any pictures of the menu or screen savers or whatever just let me know and I will send them.

Nuck

[el jopez]

I noticed you were selling some of your stuff and am curious what you are driving your RF-7's with? You aren't talking about using only the AVR 4308 for your HT are you?

Right now the RF-7's are not plugged in waiting an amp upgrade, and only the Rf-35's. The denon would future proof me for a while, and as a poor college student ([H]) it will tide me over before I heavily invest in a higher quality system. My thinking is a good 2 channel amp and allowing the denon to take care of the rest. Klipsch are super efficient so I don't believe this should be a problem, only that the RF-7's need the power, and I'm willing to oblige.