Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Willjam, That is because there is no bass management on most DVD-A and SACD players. This generally means your sub will only be getting the .1 material (full range signal to all the other channels) from the External Inputs and bypassing the DSP's on your receiver/pre-pro. If you are listening in 2-channel (from the SACD) and are still using the External Inputs on your receiver, your mains will be handling the entire bass load. Another solution for this (I can't use the speaker level inputs because I have a separate amp driving the sub, and it's passive) is to pick up an ICBM from Outlaw Audio ($249). Here you would run the 6 analog cables from your SACD/DVD-A to the ICBM, and then 6 more from the ICBM to the receiver's External Inputs. You would set everything to LARGE on your SACD/DVD-A so that a full signal is sent to the ICBM. You can then program the ICBM crossovers for each channel (40 - 120hz in 20hz increments). If you had 6 channels of separate amplification (outside your receiver/pre-pro), you could place the ICBM between your receiver and the amp(s) and do the same thing, except now it would be for all sources... not just SACD/DVD-A. Just another thought... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 01-21-2002 at 02:30 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Mike,I understand your explanation in the second paragraph of your post.Since I am about to leave for work,and do not care to expend the required brain power right now,can you explain the effect placing the ICBM between my receiver(3801)and my Acurus amps might have in relation to the fixed crossover in my receiver.Any thoughts/ideas from anyone are appreciated. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Keith, Not quite sure how it works (I'm in the same situation as you with my 4800 except I only have 3 channels of outside amplification at the moment with my A200X3) but from their website they say the following: In addition to performing this mandatory function for DVD-Audio or SACD, the ICBM may also substitute for a pre-amp's own bass management circuitry. Unfortunately, they don't go into the details but an Email to them would probably clear it up. I think I am going to get one and will start out with it in between my DVD-A and 4800. When I find the 2-channel amp I am looking for I will then place it in between my 2 amps and 4800. For those of us with fixed crossovers in our receivers (and no bass mgmt in our DVD-A), it's certainly a piece worth thinking about... Mike Edit: After downloading the Owner's Manual, it says by setting all speakers to LARGE and subwoofer to ON from the receiver, that in effect will deactivate the bass mgmt in the receiver (or processor) and passes it on to the ICBM. ------------------ My Music Systems This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 01-21-2002 at 02:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 keith, the icbm is in essence a dsp that provides some variable bass mgmt like mike explained. though i don't think it would be of use w/ your ksw powered towers, because the ksw uses a high pass filter of around 90hz on the high drivers. the icbm it seems would come in handy where u have a fixed crossover in the receiver/prepro dsp, large full-range speaks connected to any of the speaker terminals, and a seperate capable sub connected to the sub preout that is playing some of the same material as that going to the speakers. or, as mike said, in the case of dvd-audio or sacd using the external analog inputs, u will get output from the icbm sub preout even if the player & receiver/prepro is only outputting to the front 2 channels. but, u get that anyway as the ksw high & low levels are connected w/ jumpers. the icbm is just a dsp for flexible bass mgmt that goes in where u are getting none, such as between a player & direct analog inputs of a receiver/prepro, or between preamp outs & power ins. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Well I just went ahead and ordered it, so will let you know my thoughts and whether it makes a noticeable difference or not... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 great mike! i haven't heard any reviews on it here yet. it should be a great dif for your dvd-audio player function at least. my only gripe w/ it on paper is that it's not even more flexible, such as letting u set the points in 5hz steps rather than 20hz steps. please do let us know how it works for you. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Yeah, I agree. My Chorus II's are rated at 39hz so I think I will start my mains out at 40hz (not much overlap there). The Chorus rears however only extend to 45hz so I think I will start them out at 60hz. The KLF-C7 is rated at 75hz so will start that at 80hz. I will play around with it a bit on some DVD-A's that I am familiar with. Real curious to see the differences with the DD 5.1/DTS DVD's between the External Inputs and the digital cable. I will let you know my thoughts on that as well. I think I already like the sound thru the analog cables and that's without any bass management... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 mike, i take it then u will put it between your player & denon. u won't be able to control the low bass to the rears w/ the icbm if u put it between your denon & acurus. unless u buy another amp like my 200five that is (sorry, i promise to quit that ). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 That's correct. It will start out life as DVD-A only but when I finally get the 2-channel amp I'm lookin' for, will run it between the 2 amps and the Denon. Hey, when you come down to about $700, I'll take it off your hands. avman, my huble apologies for bustin' into your thread like this... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 me2 av . so does anybody know any rockin music/concert cd or dvd that have 96/24 coding that can be played w/ a regular dvdp w/ a digital only connection to a pre/pro w/ 96/24 dacs? ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 01-21-2002 at 05:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 boa, ever thought about getting into the used car business :^)? I almost wish I needed another good amp,almost! Thanks for the comments on the Outlaw piece.Seems like it may be useful and the price is right.I'll have to do a little research down the road.Haven't had much time to listen to the DVD-A stuff but what I've heard sounds great.Somewhat different that a GOOD DTS audio disc,just different.Further research required.Anywho,thanks for the info. Keith ------------------ KSP-300 FL/R KSP-C6 CENTER SW8II C/SUB KSP-S6 SURR KSP300 SB SW12II SONY KP53XBR35 RP DENON 3801 DENON DVD3300 DVD-AUDIO SONY MDP455 LDP ACURUS 125X5 ACURUS 100X3 MONDIAL M.A.G.I.C. BOX PANAMAX MAX 1000 PANAMAX COAXMAX (2) AQ SLATE AQ COPPERHEAD AQ SIDEWINDER AQ VSD TRIBUTARIES S-VIDEO MONSTER INT.400MKIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 keith, actually the job i'm in now has been compared by some to that (not that there's anything wrong w/ that) ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: Willjam, That is because there is no bass management on most DVD-A and SACD players..... Another solution for this (I can't use the speaker level inputs because I have a separate amp driving the sub, and it's passive) is to pick up an ICBM from Outlaw Audio ($249). Thanks Mike and all that is contributing to this thread, I will check out the ICBM. My player is Sony C222ES which has a bass management feature where I can select 2 channel with subwoofer or without. Does this feature only apply to 2 channel SACDs? I have 8 analog output jacks plus a coaxial and a toslink cable for digital. I'm using the toslink digital output for regular CDs. I have the 6 jacks Front, Center, Surround and Sub jacks connected to my Denon 6 Channel EXT. I do not have the 2 channel analog jacks connected. I assumed that I did not need to connect these because I was using the digital outputs for regular CDs. The problem arises with no bass from the sub when you have mixed disks SACDs and CDs in the changer. In order to get sound from the SACDs you have to be in 6 channel EXT mode. Regular CDs will play in the mode sans bass. I wonder if I connect the 2 channel analog jacks will this solve my problem. I should have tried this before posting, which I will do and see what results that I get. Do you think there would be a conflict in connecting the 2 channel analog jacks to the analog CD jacks on the receiver. In other words when the a 2 channel regular CD is playing in 6 channel EXT mode it would use the 2 channel outputs-- (guessing here) but when the receiver is in auto mode it should change to digital output? ------------------ Bill J. Denon AVR 3300 Denon DVM 3800 DVD Pioneer LD Elite CLD-53 Sony C222ES SACD/CD Nakamichi Dragon Cassette Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 RCA Home Theater Hi-Fi VCR RCA 25" Colortrack 2000 (1974) Rega Planar 3 Turntable -Elys cartridge Panamax 1000+ Surge Protector/Line Conditioner Heresy Mains RC-3 Center Channel KSP-S6 Rears M&K VX-7 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 bill, guess u'll find out but i think all that stereo analog out to your denon cd analog ins does is allow u to play regular cd in analog mode on your denon. some receivers require that instead of a digital connection to record to a cassette tape. on your sony sacd player sounds like u may have some bass mgmt. if u play an sacd disk using ext-in without any output to the sub (like sacd 2.0) do u still get sub output? i don't know haow it works. may want to read up on that sub or no sub feature, or maybe someone else can answer. if the bass sounds kinda muttled using the ext-in & playing an sacd disk, the icbm may be for U. (maybe outlaw should pay me commissions ). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Driver Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 The Blue Man Group DVD titled AUDIO might be the ticket I'm not to versed in that pcm/bit/96khz mumbo jumbo so I might be barking up the wrong tree but it's 5.1 DD and DTS if that helps ------------------ "FULLY LOADED" J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 thanks jts. i'll check it out. every dvd-audio disk i've seen that also comes w/ a dts 5.1 soundtrack that plays on a dvd-video player has the regular 48k bitstream on it. looks like this new dvd-audio dts disk, Queen: A Night at the Opera, comes w/ a 96/24 dts soundtrack playable on a regular dvd-video player. i just want to see a 96k bitstream on my processor. switched to a local fm station today & noticed the bitstream was 96k. but that's fm ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipschy Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Great! Glad SACD is so liked. Can't wait until I get my player in I'll see how good it really is..... ------------------ Music system:(2 ch) 1 pair of Dynaudio Evidences, Krell Master Reference Subwoofer, 2 Mark Levinson No. 33 amps, Mark Levinson No. 32 pre amp, Jadis JD-1 CD player, LINN Sondek lp12 turntable, (SACD on the way) McIntosh MR7084 tuner, and Nakamichi ZX-9 tape. Movie system: (7.1 ch) 4 KLIPSCHORNS(left, right, rear right, rear center, La Scala center, left, right, rear. McIntosh MX130 preamp, Bryston 7B ST's all around. Aerial Acoustics Model SW12 Subwoofer. PC audio set up. Denon 5800, klipsch RB5's, RC3's. and Rs3's. Klipsch KSW 15 Subwoofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 wow klipschy, looks like theears may meet his match & you can back the heritage for us (please see "trade rf-7 for cornwalls thread) ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by klipschy: Great! Glad SACD is so liked. Can't wait until I get my player in I'll see how good it really is..... Klipschy, what player are you getting? SACD is great and it also makes a great CD player as well. Let us know. I still working on my problem - hopefully will find a solution soon. Bill J. ------------------ Bill J. Denon AVR 3300 Denon DVM 3800 DVD Pioneer LD Elite CLD-53 Sony C222ES SACD/CD Nakamichi Dragon Cassette Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 RCA Home Theater Hi-Fi VCR RCA 25" Colortrack 2000 (1974) Rega Planar 3 Turntable -Elys cartridge Panamax 1000+ Surge Protector/Line Conditioner Heresy Mains RC-3 Center Channel KSP-S6 Rears M&K VX-7 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 Well, I finally heard dvd audio and regular cd. Was listening to Deep Purples "Machine Head", Highway Star, and it makes me want to throw out my cd collection. The amplification was Musical Fidelity, the speakers were Monitor Audio GR60's and the rest was OUCH CD sounded tunneled, the sounds of the cymbal on DA was wild to say the least. So destinctive. For the money, excellent, Toshiba 5700 at $350(cdn)was the player(yup), works. Just wish Marantz would be practical as an owner. I heard the Eagles Hotel California and it reminds me of the 77 tour and reunion I saw, so much depth. Would love to hear Mike Oldfields Tubular Bells through tubes, and my Khorns in 2 channel, in either SACD or DVD Audio This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 01-27-2002 at 01:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.