Should we wait for the HD Audio standards

[tross]

I somewhat interested in buying a new receiver with HD audio formats. Pioneer's latest receiver looks interesting.. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.VSX-94TXH.Kuro?tab=A Someone told me that I should wait to buy a new receiver due to the new HD audio standards. After looking at this receiver with TrueHD, DTS HD and HDMI 1.3a, I'm thinking that maybe the advice was incorrect (it just a matter of spending the money). So which HD audio formats should I look for in a receiver that should last for 5-7 years?

[Mallette]

What is HD audio format? Having recorded at up to 24/192X4, it's hard to imagine anything much more "HD." Then, of course, there is vinyl...

My Class D reciever handles up to 24/96X6.1 without problems, and the higher (24/192) I handle with ESI soundcard.

It is my expectation that true "universal" players will be available in the next couple of years that will be able to handle anything you stick in them. With any luck, that will deal with "format" issues for all time.

Actually, on the video side, the current audio standards on DVD are in excess of the vast majority of material. This stuff is mixed, remixed, passed through analog stages, processed, and it is amazing that it sounds as good as it does after where it slept.

Dave

[damonrpayne]

You may be interested in the results of this test when it's done:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/99492.aspx

[tross]

What receiver did you go with for all the high bit rate streams?

[RobCurran]

I don’t believe the U.S. electronics’ market will ever see a standard, not with consumers striving for the next coolest advance in technology. I’m swearing off AV receivers and so-called future proof integrated amps. When my Yamie dies, I’m going with separate components like near-disposable AV pre-amp with all of tomorrow’s best technologies and an expensive HIGH-END solid state 5.1 channel amp for the long haul (20+ years). I think 5.1 DD is the long term standard for most home theaters.

[damonrpayne]

I don’t believe the U.S. electronics’ market will ever see a standard, not with consumers striving for the next coolest advance to technology. I’m swearing off AV receivers and so-called future proof integrated amps. When my Yamie dies, I’m going with separate components. A short-term AV pre-amp with all of today’s best technology and a very high-end solid state 5.1 channel amp for the long haul (20+ years). I think 7.1 is a gimick.

Going with seperates is good.

The research out there suggests 7.1 is not a gimmick, but rather than 7.1 is the minimum configuration to produce realistic 360deg sound. I'll try to dig up the study.

[mas]

You might.....if you are planning to interface with the profile 1.1 or profile 2 Blu-Ray standard that will be available ~ October 2008...

[RobCurran]

damonrpayne -

1. Is there material recorded in a discrete 7.1 surround for home theater?

2. Wouldn’t you need a fairly large, and dedicated, home theater to hear the benefits?

3. For me, 5.1 is my standard until I win the "megabucks" and build a dedicated home theater that can seat 20 or so of my newfound friends.

[damonrpayne]

You might.....if you are planning to interface with the profile 1.1 or profile 2 Blu-Ray standard that will be available ~ October 2008...

The vast majority of BD devices (PS3) are 1.1 profile, as is every one manufactured after October of last year.

[damonrpayne]

damonrpayne -

1. Is there material recorded in a discrete 7.1 surround for home theater?

2. Wouldn’t you need a fairly large, and dedicated, home theater to hear the benefits?

3. For me, 5.1 is my standard until I win the "megabucks" and build a dedicated home theater that can seat 20 or so of my newfound friends.

1. Yes.

2. I have to dig up the research to know. My room is probably a bit bigger than most, but I don't see why being a dedicated room or not is going to be a determining factor in the usefulness of the extra 2 speakers.

3. For me, I'm already spending way too much money on upgrades in 2008. Maybe in a couple of years.

[el jopez]

Tross, if your pre/preo/receiver can handle PCM tracks, then you are set. Depending on the player, wether HD-DVD or Blu-ray you may have to use HDMI or multi channel analog connectors to access the tracks as optical doesn't have the bandwith for the larger audio files.

Read this for further information.

[mas]

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9808376-1.html

Does Blu-ray Profile 1.1 make past players obsolete?

Today is the official
end of the "grace period" for Blu-ray manufacturers, which means that
all Blu-ray players released from now on must comply with Blu-ray Profile 1.1
(also known as Final Standard Profile and BD-Video Profile 1.1). Of course,
that doesn't mean that Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players still can't be sold, and if
you walk into your local electronics store over the next few months, you're
likely to see both Profile 1.0 and Profile 1.1 Blu-ray players on the shelf. So
what's the big difference between Profile 1.0 and Profile 1.1?

Profile 1.0 vs.
Profile 1.1

There are several
different hardware requirements (see the chart below), but it basically boils
down to picture-in-picture functionality. All Blu-ray players up until
this point have been Profile 1.0 and have lacked the secondary video and audio
decoders necessary to play a smaller video in the corner while also playing the
main high-def movie in the background. With the notable exception of the Sony
Playstation 3, Profile 1.0 players cannot be upgraded via firmware to become
Profile 1.1 players.

Because Profile 1.0
players lacked this functionality, movie studios have understandably not
included picture-in-picture functionality on any current Blu-ray disc. Fox has
announced that it will release its first Profile 1.1-enabled disc, Sunshine,
in the first quarter of 2008. And as more Profile 1.1 players become available,
we expect more Profile 1.1 discs to be released.

Profile 1.1 vs.
Profile 2.0

Despite Profile 1.1
also being known as Final Standard Profile, there's actually still another
Blu-ray specification, Profile 2.0, also known as BD-Live. The reason it's
called BD-Live is that the major difference between profiles 1.1 and 2.0 is
that Profile 2.0 requires that the player has an Internet connection.
Although some current Blu-ray players have an Ethernet port, these are strictly
for firmware updates and can't be used to access downloadable content.

Again, since Internet
connectivity isn't a mandatory feature on current Blu-ray players, movie
studios have not included any Internet-enabled functionality on any current
Blu-ray discs to date and there are currently no Internet-enabled discs
announced for the future. Internet connectivity could be used to download
additional movie content, download trailers, or enable purchasing movie-related
merchandise. The other requirement of Profile 2.0 is increasing the mandatory
local storage capacity to 1GB, which is presumably to accommodate downloaded
content.

Note:
ONLY the PS3 is upgradeable to profile 1.1 or profile 2.0.

No
other product is currently capable of being upgraded from profile 1 or profile
1.1 to profile 2.0

But should
audio be your only concern for future orientation?

I think not.

May I
suggest that you might want to insure that your receiver has:

!) Internet
connectivity, preferably via an Ethernet connection

2) USB 2 connectivity-
for network attached storage, interfacing with a computer and additional
peripherals, etc.

[damonrpayne]

Oh, come now Mas. Aren't you the big fan of saying how all these High-Def optical sales are a tiny drop in the bucket?

-40,000-70,000 standalone BD players sold before October 2007

-Millions of PS3s that are firmware upgradeable

-People (like me) who just want high def audio and sound. Of all the movies I own, I have watched "special features" on perhaps 3. PiP and turning optical discs into video games are not astoundingly popular features.

I assume your adivce on external storage and internet in a receiver has nothing to do with packaged optical media?

Perhaps one of the future KlipschCorner podcasts should be me in a Blu-Ray debate with mas? It's one of my favorite topics!

[mas]

Oh, come now Mas. Aren't you the big fan of saying how all these High-Def optical sales are a tiny drop in the bucket?

-40,000-70,000 standalone BD players sold before October 2007

-Millions of PS3s that are firmware upgradeable

-People (like me) who just want high def audio and sound. Of all the movies I own, I have watched "special features" on perhaps 3. PiP and turning optical discs into video games are not astoundingly popular features.

I assume your adivce on external storage and internet in a receiver has nothing to do with packaged optical media?

Perhaps one of the future KlipschCorner podcasts should be me in a Blu-Ray debate with mas? It's one of my favorite topics!

?

My response was in regards to what one should look for in a FUTURE ORIENTED receiver.

There are STILL PLENTY of soon to be obsolete profile 1 and profile 1.1 format players for sale that cannot be upgraded to profile 2.0 ...today as I write this.

In fact, I was curious myself when i went out yesterday and as I was going to Academy Sports, I decided to stop by the local Best Of Luck located next door - only to encounter several profile 1 and ONE profile 1.1 BR players. And the sales staff was of immense help as they stood there with their mouths open when i asked about the profile 1.1 players and if they were familiar with the audio formats - as they promptly told me that - "oh, that is not a problem at all, as LG has a multi-format player available..." [*-)]

In other words, they hadn't a clue.

The audio formats are of issue if you are into the HD formats, and then you have other issues to contend with (if you bought anything other than a PS3 game console to play movies) - namely the various yet to be realized profiles.

But the IMPORTANT issue is the larger market context (of which HD is still but a smal part)

And while HD content IS still a small market percentage, the movement
is for greater distribution of ALL content via the Internet and in a
distributed A/V network.

Meanwhile many of the TV and receiver manufacturers are not waiting for HD-DVD and BR to figure out what they are doing and instead they are beginning to
incorporate the interfaces themselves. And if all one wants is
a player for movies it is absurd to spend $600 for a PS3!!! And the
currently availableprofile 1 or 1.1 players are NOT upgradeable, so these players, and all that are pre profile 2.0 are a waste of money if you are interested in the new audio standards. And you can blame HD-DVD for Bly Ray's shortcoming - heck, Sony does, literally! ROFLMAO!!!

But to the degree that the audio formats become available (if they do) via other avenues, you should consider them, and if you concerned about this, I would hold off and wait for the soon to be released profile 2.0 BR players. Why would you want to buy something with a life of 9 months? Profile 2.0 is scheduled for an October 2008 release.

But in the meantime there are more compelling features that are definately becoming valuable - whether you are into pre-recorded HDVideo or not

Network attached devices and the ability to interface with network storage, computers, and other computer peripherals is becoming the norm.

Convergence is the norm. Thus these features are of greater importance.

A/V is becoming but a part of a larger distributed network, and an understanding of this greater trend is fundamental to understanding where the industry is moving.

And if you are going to spend the money on a reciever, rather than investing in a receiver that will not meet your anticipated needs...one that has the features that will grow into (without paying too much) will serve you much better.