Lonelobo Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Just a note that there are a pair of Frazier Model 11's on that place. These are living up in the Detroit area. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220194970182&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012 107db makes them more efficient than K-Horns I believe. I think it's appropriate to post this here as Jack and Paul were friends and respected each other's work. If only the Frazier company valued it's heritage line and fanatics like Klipsch does.... These are #5&6, made just after mine. Hope somebody good gives them a good home. I'm trying to track down all 50 pair of these, so if you know where some are, please put me in touch with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 LL, Thanks for posting these here..................But God, the Size! They make CW's look small in comparision..............:>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonelobo Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 They are easily twice the size of my Cornwalls. You may compromise, ie. WAF, or be right when it comes to speakers. In regards to compromise in design, I shall quote the master evermore.....BULLSHIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 >If only the Frazier company valued it's heritage line and fanatics like Klipsch does.... More nearly true words were never spoken. The current Frazier bunch would starve to death in a grocery store. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I think these are the ones that sold for $200 on ebay last spring. Damaged woofer and rear edge match the ones. Dave, the current owners of the Frazier TM are pretty sharp (or a least a lot sharper than those folks in northern Arkansas who had the name for awhile and fooked everything up). They've been around for about 75 years as JW Davis doing mostly PA work. They had a line of domestic speakers in the late seventies, but I never heard them (but which I thought were just the "drivers in a box" approach). Their PA gear is pretty good, but not great (as I undestand it). And yes, they don't exactly honor the hertitage of the trademark, that's for sure. P.S. I still haven't gotten around to solving the sound on those Dixielanders I picked up. Little bass, no highs. I'll probably refresh the XOs to see if that helps. The specs for the commercial variant I have is 60-16K, whereas the older home models spec'd 40-16K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 "107db makes them more efficient than K-Horns I believe. " They aren't, and they can't be. Their 1W pink noise is most likely 2.83V, and sine the speakers are 4R it's actually 2W. The 107 is 'in the corner of a typical room', and would probably only hit that around 200hz or so. The Motorola KSN1005 in a stacked pair will be 100dB/2.83V/1M, the CTS 4-1/2" if they were all stacked in a line would be 98dB/W/1M but won't get that high in the 4Khz crossover region due to the wide spacing. They probably sound OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 "107db makes them more efficient than K-Horns I believe. " They aren't, and they can't be. Their 1W pink noise is most likely 2.83V, and sine the speakers are 4R it's actually 2W. The 107 is 'in the corner of a typical room', and would probably only hit that around 200hz or so. The Motorola KSN1005 in a stacked pair will be 100dB/2.83V/1M, the CTS 4-1/2" if they were all stacked in a line would be 98dB/W/1M but won't get that high in the 4Khz crossover region due to the wide spacing. They probably sound OK. Odd. PWK was convinced the spec was honest, or so he said to me. Jack and PWK had something of a friendly rivalry, and PWK was both amused and impressed that Jack was able to get a silly db more from his designs than the K'horn and do so without a corner. Frazier would be a big name today and be the major Heritage competition if Jack had not died prematurely with no succession plan. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Did anyone see those Fraziers on e-spay that are Brand Spanking new, they just now opened the box to take pictures ? Those aren't the one's Lonelobo was talking about ..... no way those are bigger than Cornwalls, must be a different set .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Did anyone see those Fraziers on e-spay that are Brand Spanking new, they just now opened the box to take pictures ? Those aren't the one's Lonelobo was talking about ..... no way those are bigger than Cornwalls, must be a different set .... Those were Monte Carlos... about the same size as AR-4s or EPI 100s. You'll have to ask Dave how they sound. Same seller has a NIB pair of Frazier Mk IVs up right now. A killer "little" speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 >You'll have to ask Dave how they sound. Recommended to me by PWK since I could not afford his speakers as a college student. I still have my first pair, and 3 more pair. Finest sound of anything it's size ever, and the most efficient as well. Listening to a pair now. My preference is the later, back slot modified Helmholtz resonator design with piezo tweeter, but they all sound great. One of the neat things is how the provide solid bass within their range, then roll off virtually perfectly. You hardly miss it. [Y] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiolaf Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 What is the value of Judgement without Experence? What I like most about the Elevens is that they don't have a mid bass peak! Super efficient and linear! Also, yes they are the same pair as last year but not the same pair; as much love has been given in the short time in my care. I have desided to keep them; I will find money elsewhere. I have a pair of Frazier "Heritage" speakers from 1984 that I will offer: 98 db 1 watt mirror image pair. Also I have experence with K-Horns I worked as a salesman for a local dealer. It was the Heritage model that inlightend me to Frazier. Regards, Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Tell us about the Heritage. I am not familiar with them and was unaware of any Frazier non-commercial output in 1984. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Kai, Welcome to Klipsch Forum! If I'd been close to those Elevens, you might not have gotten them. If I was close to you now, I'd probably be sleeping on the sofa for awhile! P.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiolaf Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Single 12" part # 1270, single 41/2" mid (same as the 4 in the elevens), single 11/4" dome tweeter. slots on front, running top to bottom on one side. again mirror image; 98 db, 25-24khz + - 3 db' crossover points 400hz and 4khz; this pair requires some work as one of the 12's is blown; one mid is blown and the other not original; the tweeter don't match but do sound close. I did hear them before the mid blew. I liked it much more than a pair of jbl 4410's that I had just given to friends; even with mismatched drivers; I slapped in a 12" audiobaun subwoofer as temporary replacement; reminded me of B&W 801"s which I have owned; but much more efficent. Great box's and crossover's; size is about 29" x 18" x 19" ; wieght about 90lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Sound mighty close to the Sevens. From an earlier version ("heritage")? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonelobo Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Welcome aboard Kai!! You made the right decision and are now among the chosen few.... We are Frazierheads;} We are destined to wander in the audiophile desert in search of truth, justice, and an honest set of specs. Since there is no land of milk and honey yet for us, we must huddle here with our hornhead breathren, waiting for our time to come when we can say.....I told you so!! I'm really glad you pulled these. The ignorant masses aren't ready to pay what they are worth. Until somebody "important" hears them somewhere and writes them up where the general "my cable is bigger than your cable" public can take notice they will be a nicely guarded secret. I still can't believe what you paid for your eleven's. Proof enough that God meant for YOU to have them! Listen with JOY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Apologies are in order... I was so set on the thread I did not take time to welcome Master Kai aboard. Sorry about that. Get out now before the madness takes over... Sheesh...K'horns and Model Elevens. Tough act to follow. BTW...You only still have those because my current situation did not allow me to hit the BIN button. They'd have been a steal...but I have no scruples. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 " PWK was both amused and impressed that Jack was able to get a silly db more from his designs than the K'horn and do so without a corner." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Your original point was that the 11's couldn't possibly meet spec. The fact I dropped a detail over 30 years old doesn't invalidate the point. Jack Frazier did not indulge in smoke and mirrors and his work stands on its own. The reason I've heard most of his speakers and own examples of half of them is because PWK told me Jack was "almost as good as me." The 11 is one of the finest designs of all time, and, but for the fortunes of fate, might today have a forum of 27,000 or so partisans and be the loyal opposition to Klipsch. At the top end, the debate would have been on such fine points that I'd certainly be a member of both and respected in neither. It did not happen that way. The remaining Frazier speakers are useful aritifacts from a great mind and designer that are to be enjoyed by those who appreciate them. Their merits are self-evident in the listening room. -30- Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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