IndyKlipschFan Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 With Alanis and JaggedLittle Pill,we figured she was going to sell 25,000 and she sold 23 million. Doesn'tthat tell you the system is idiotic? ============================================= And that was on Madonnas record label too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 With Alanis and Jagged Little Pill, we figured she was going to sell 25,000 and she sold 23 million. Doesn't that tell you the system is idiotic? ============================================= And that was on Madonnas record label too! First, this is coming from the point of view of the studio recording engineers! Not some marketing manager! Does ANYONE know what a recording engineer does? And the "System"????? How about the "Buying Public"!? You know, the same ones that buy Barney, Hannah Montana, rap and Zamfir (and his magical Pan flute) CDs. How can so many say they are so easily manipulated on the one hand, and in the same breath so many want to say they cannot be manipulated resulting is such a dramatic loss in sales? Hmmmmmmmm??? [*-)][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Most of what I buy is not mainstream and sometimes I get CDs for $5-$15 but not very often. I try to buy two to five CDs a month. I don't buy music off of iTunes I want real product in my hands. Nobody has tried to give me a CD ever. Yes the average price of my cd purchases is about $20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theryugobuddy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Wow -- $20 is alot! I think I bought a Watch CD, an Italian import for $25 last year becuase I wanted it, but everything else I've gotten has been less than $10 -- Any of you on lala.com? I bet the 10 out of the last 12 CDs I've gotten have been through there. You put the CDs you own that you want to trade on a Have list and make a Want list and lala.com sends you envelopes to send your CDs and you start to receive other members CDs. Some I have gotten had been released within the last year, like the Holmes Brothers latest. This doesn't deal with the issue of this thread, but man, you're paying too much -- any CD you receive with lala.com is $1.75 -- Of course, many of the CDs on your Want list may not be sent by other members, but many of those CDs are offered for $8 to $12 plus .75 shipping. -- How do the mall music outlets stay open charging $18 with so many options to buy the same thing for so much less? --- interesting article above, though. The ability to keep a large library of music in your hand was not possible 15 years ago, and that convenience far outweighs being able to hear it all with superior fidelity all the time. But, MP3 quality is improving, and I think many like me use the iPod as a supplement to their music listening, not a replacement. You still got to have to hear great music with great sound at home through Klipsches et al-- Herbie Hancock winning the Album Grammy was heartening -- he beat out alot of big-sellers ( including a maniacally egotistical Kanye West ). Hopefully the music industry doesn't forsake more artistic efforts like his for the big dollar blue chips. Haven't heard his yet, but I will -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Wow -- $20 is alot! I think I bought a Watch CD, an Italian import for $25 last year becuase I wanted it, but everything else I've gotten has been less than $10 -- Any of you on lala.com? I bet the 10 out of the last 12 CDs I've gotten have been through there. You put the CDs you own that you want to trade on a Have list and make a Want list and lala.com sends you envelopes to send your CDs and you start to receive other members CDs. Some I have gotten had been released within the last year, like the Holmes Brothers latest. This doesn't deal with the issue of this thread, but man, you're paying too much -- any CD you receive with lala.com is $1.75 -- Of course, many of the CDs on your Want list may not be sent by other members, but many of those CDs are offered for $8 to $12 plus .75 shipping. -- How do the mall music outlets stay open charging $18 with so many options to buy the same thing for so much less? --- interesting article above, though. The ability to keep a large library of music in your hand was not possible 15 years ago, and that convenience far outweighs being able to hear it all with superior fidelity all the time. But, MP3 quality is improving, and I think many like me use the iPod as a supplement to their music listening, not a replacement. You still got to have to hear great music with great sound at home through Klipsches et al-- Herbie Hancock winning the Album Grammy was heartening -- he beat out alot of big-sellers ( including a maniacally egotistical Kanye West ). Hopefully the music industry doesn't forsake more artistic efforts like his for the big dollar blue chips. Haven't heard his yet, but I will -- I am abou to start using LaLa.com my friend just got the same cd I did for a fraction of the cost. Can't wait to use it. Most of what I order are Italian, UK, or Japanese releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 i think it it comes down to very simple terms. look, us who care about quality, both musically and recording wise, want something tangent that we can put our hands on physically and say we own. for now, cd, or for some, vinyl is the best format there is to offer. as for the rest of the population...... well, they don't give two s**ts about owning anything other than another file on their computer or mp3 player. drastically two different types of consumers. unfortunately, the latter is the greater percentage of the buyers. and of course the record companies are all looking to that. the profit that is. whether or not the 'record' industry is up or down, there will always be a market for many types of great music. not that i'm a fan, but has anyone here heard what radiohead did to release their last album?? definitely something to look up if you don't already know. that said, when there finally is a digital format that can offer superior quality audio, i'm all for it. i believe when this type of technology becomes mainstream, it will be much easier for really great bands to skip the whole traditional record industry bs, and be heard for what they are. not a re-hashed, minced, dumbed down radio version that so many records execs want. then, maybe, we can get back to really good music............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 "...We can finally get back to really good music..." The fundamental problem that seems to be missed is the market share that wants to "finally get back" is a small niche, not some imagined majority! And it is fragmented by format divisions! Like it or not, its simply not happening with a <10% marketshare.. The real trend is in the opposite direction. I fear tha listening to predictions of HD making a big comeback is like listening to the Black Knight in MP & the Holy Grail prediciting imminent victory.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 quote user="mas" The fundamental problem that seems to be missed is the market share that wants to "finally get back" is a small niche, not some imagined majority! And it is fragmented by format divisions! that is the point i was making. atleast in lamen's terms!! even though 'we' are the 'small niche', there is enough demand for the good music to still get through. and that sure is not an imagined majority! if that is imaginary, then explain how the bonnaroo shows have been such a success? those shows were predicted to be a huge mistake and yet practically sold out. that is just a for instance of something not being mainstream but still being wanted enough to be profitable and successful. now i'm not debating media formats here. like you said, that is wishful thinking. but i do hope some form of a superior quality WILL exist. what i am saying is that if good artist's and good music have a good outlet, they will be heard. and whether it is from selling their music on some format, or selling tickets for a live show, the money will follow. i'll say it again, what radiohead did puts my idea in concrete. you can post all of the articles you want, but you cannot dispute real numbers put up by real people. downloaded in fact. by the way, hannah montana is a pretty decent talent. i have watched her only because i have a 7 year old girlie girl. so far, she seems to have a head on her shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 When was Bonneroo predicted to be a "huge mistake"? The only folks who might say that were the same idiots who predicted no one in Nashville would attend a hockey game - ignorant of the myriad transplants who now make up so much of the population! Likewise, the only thing that had a few eyebrows raised to my knowledge was that it was a bit out of the way in Manchester. Quite used to the weekly or bi-weekly shuttle from Nashville/Franklin to Winchester, it was just on my way. But I don't know anyone in Nashville who EVER felt it would fail, especially since it has drawn on such a wide ranging cross pollination of country and rock acts. And if anyone doubts the interest in the regional/locals (alone!) in TN have never been there. Anyone who doubted this is obviously not familiar with the history of the Smithville Fiddlers Convention! But with a niche market comes a contracted supply. Folks keep seeming to want to make this an emotional debate based on what they like rather than on market fundamentals. Like it or not, making higher quality recordings and associated mastering costs more. There is little incentive for most mass market offerings to 'go there'. And another factor that is even more significant is that more and more production work is NOT being done in a studio - or at least not in a studio that most might imagine in their mind's eye. As more recordings are done in home studios they simply do not have access to many of the resources that are required to make a truely high quality recording. And we can carry this example further to include many folks who can now do this that simply are not aware of all of the methods and techniques available! Democatizing the recording process has benefits AND a downside. Along with a greater accessibility, thee will also be a greaater number of mediocre recordings. Now that doesn't mean all will be bad, but it doesn't mean that the number of high quality recordings will increase - if for no other reason than file size requirements and the potential for online distribution. And smaller operations do not have the means to finance and distribute vinyl and multiple media formats! The movement will be toward digital files. And thus the along with a contracting market, you have a contracting source for multiple format deliverables. And the supply chain overhead costs will push this to virtual digital sources. If you want to burn hard copy, you will do it on your own. And what Radiohead did is an exception! Citing their success is akin to suggesting that any very established band with a pent up demand can distribute material via download. And I would say that is a forgone conclusion. What is more difficult is for a relatively unknown band to generate sufficient awareness to succeed outside of a local or regional market. http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/commentary/listeningpost/2007/12/listeningpost_1 But more to the point, having messed around in Nashville for too many years, there is NO shortage of incredible talent. None at all! And i hate the country market as represented on the retread 70's pop that passes for country radio! But then Nashville is the mot vibrant multi-market recordning environment in the US. After fighting the good fight to develop alt markets for recording in the 70' and 80's, it is no tlonger simply a fomula country town. Heck, just witness Aleisha Keys coming out of MTSU. But, back to the wealth of immensely skilled artists that are known to other musicias but unkown to the public - most are not going going to become well known. And the likelihood of the mass market knowing them via alternative disribution vectors when most folks are clueless as to who they are NOW is not likey. I wish many more would be known now, and while they are definately around, I don't have a rosy notion that it will be easier for someone to become known with even less directed publicity. So, the net result, I sus[ect, will be a general contraction in the high end market. There will be more regionalism, and for the average artist, while the market mechanisms may change, I don't see it becoming radically easier to become well known. We'll see. But I suspect that there will me greater movement towards distribution deals with services such as iTunes. Not more grunt work and required expense to build a low return high end market.on the part of the vast majority of artists who lack the resources a marketing machine offers.... One only needs to look at the history of the PC and the Mac. One can easily argue that the advantages of the Mac environment offered many features, while the realities of the much larger Windows market had even the Mac loyalists moving to develop product for the dominant platform with the biggest ROI. Market fundamentals are not going to change. In fact, they may become even more determinant as fewer have the independent means to overcome the fundamental hurdles that might have been provided by the marketing machines provided by the traditional music companies. BTW, maybe I should restate where I stand personally with my preferences...I am old school. I want a high definition hard copy . I can deal with downloads, but I am not crazy about it. And i have no interest in low-fi deliverables except to the degree that I might listen to a radio. And I won't pay for that. So, my evaluation of the market is not a pleasant one for me, as what I forsee considering the primary market drivers is not one that forcasts what I would like to hear... But hey, things change, and i recognize that what I want has become an ever shrinking niche... oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Sirius radio just came with my wifes new van. Wow.. Does anyone listen to local radio anymore? (except for local news?) Between this and a iPod why? MAYBE THIS IS WHY MUSIC SUCKS?>?? We have no one to really introduce us to anything new? Were all cocooning to things we feel comfortable with! Sirius is very clean and fun and it sounds incredible.. The Navigation system on the van is also pretty cool! (I was so far behind the times here...LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sirius radio just came with my wifes new van. Wow.. Does anyone listen to local radio anymore? (except for local news?) Between this and a iPod why? MAYBE THIS IS WHY MUSIC SUCKS?>?? We have no one to really introduce us to anything new? Were all cocooning to things we feel comfortable with! Sirius is very clean and fun and it sounds incredible.. The Navigation system on the van is also pretty cool! (I was so far behind the times here...LOL) You have in a nutshell described why I do not listen to anything but our one public radio station anymore. The job of DJs was to introduce us to new music and play tracks they enjoyed but now they are handed playlist and told what to play and when. XM and Sirius are great for finding new music. You just pic the genre and they will play almost anything by anyone in that genre not just the "hits". I have seen many artists names come up on XM that I hadn't heard before but always wanted to and then some that I had never heard of but now love. There is new music out there it just takes more of an effort on our part to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Maybe its a sign of age, but IMHO, the MAJORITY of good music died 20 years ago. Now before you jump, I said the Majority, NOT ALL! My selection has narrowed greatly over the past 10-20 years. Good thing you can still find some decent concerts with REASONABLE prices. Robin Trower - $30 Candy Dulfer - $40 Boney James $40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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