limono Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Hi there My Klipschorn /Lowther experiment turned out to be a dead fish. I decided to marry bass bins with EV Patrician IV upper section . Over the years I collected all parts including original crossovers . The parts date stamps are from 1956-58 . I don't want to open the cans (they are sealed with tar ) and replace capacitors , better to reform existing ones (if possible ). Anybody familiar with the parts they were using back then? (type of bipolar capacitors and working voltage ?). My metter measures 35uF first midbass high pass capacitor (little low for 200Hz crosspoint) Another option is to build modern version of crossover but I don't have schematic -could you help ? I posted it in a few places and sent emailes around -with little luck so far. Regards, L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 schematic ...sure hold on to your hat..let me switch computers and pull the file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 You ... are not going to 're-form" Capacitors .. at speaker voltages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 the schematic for patrician IV is the 2635 in this pdf. X6,%208,%20425,%20825,%2036,%20336,%202635%20.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limono Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Thank you !!! I see there is no electrolytic caps to re-form just oils. Even though K-33E woofer's DCR is close to 18 Wk (3.4 ohm) .Impedance in horn must differ because I've seen 7.6mH coil in 200 Hz (6dB) network and Patrician only has 4.78mH (I measured 4.11 mH ) . Are all the drivers connected in phase ? I assume T1 speaker tab is + and T2 - right?? I also assume 828 low mids are in parallel ? Best regards, L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limono Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 I was going to use variac in the case of electrolityc caps and run the voltage up to the max. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Thank you !!! I see there is no electrolytic caps to re-form just oils. Even though K-33E woofer's DCR is close to 18 Wk (3.4 ohm) .Impedance in horn must differ because I've seen 7.6mH coil in 200 Hz (6dB) network and Patrician only has 4.78mH (I measured 4.11 mH ) . Are all the drivers connected in phase ? I assume T1 speaker tab is + and T2 - right?? I also assume 828 low mids are in parallel ? Best regards, L For some of your questions, perhaps Bernie (EVGuy on the forum) will see this thread and help you out. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limono Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Thanks Bob At first the crossovers values seemed odd to me but I put some of them into the online crossover calculator and they started to make a more sense. Paul Eizik from vintage asylum pointed that it's "constant K " type and that they used combination of parts values to keep inventory smaller. I read comments on Patrician being " harsh in mid-high "section and boomy on bass. AS to the bass, while I have 18Wk woofers I'm going to use Klipschorn bass bins (at first ) -they should match my room better . I made low-mid (828 double reentrant horns) 200 Hz horn bigger ,meaning I kept all original dimensions accept vertical plane is now symmetrical (while originally bottom of horn was flat 90 degree ) resulting in 1/3 rd bigger mouth (still undersized for 200Hz cut-off ) should result in less honk. I noticed that mid- horn 6HD throat to driver transition is ragged with edges and a 3/8 gap which probably greatly contributes to perceived harshness , also mouth termination is sharp and abrupt , I am going to address those issues . I never liked T-35 that much and I'm going to use T-350 (without the mounting bracket creating sharp edges too) .Finally I will take the mid-horn and tweeter out of the mid -bass mouth and stack it with the arrangement ;Klipschorn, mid- horn, tweeter, mid-bass. Regards, L P.s Once I recover financially a little bit I'll think of those nice cast frame woofers for Klipsches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I just found this thread. The 828 low mids are in parallel. T1 is +. According to the building plans I have but cannot find now, they say to connect the first 828, then connect it, to the second 828, + to +, - to -. Bob made a set of X2635 crossovers for me a few years ago based on the schematics from EV and they really made a huge differance. Limono - I bought my 18WK from you several years ago up in Mich. Don't know if you remember or not. We met up at the McDonalds. Here's where it sits now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Here's the crossover Bob made for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Wow, Klipschorns on steroids -- very nice! Bob, you forgot to add the tar back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Yeah, it is a little bigger than a Klipschorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Wow, Klipschorns on steroids -- very nice! Bob, you forgot to add the tar back in. Dean, Yeah, I did not forget. Just too lazy to melt the tar out of the old one an pour it over the new crossover. I don't think Bernie wanted that much authenticity anyway. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 ...and for that Bob, I truely thank you! [] The sound is authentic enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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