Need Sub advice for new man cave project

[kevinmi]

I'm moving to a different house that has a basement, and I'm going to build a dedicated room for my 60th anniversary clone Khorns. The room will probably be about 11 by 20 feet, seven foot ceiling, concrete floor with carpeting. I am using a KSW15 in my current set up, and it can't keep up much past moderately high volumes. I know the basement will be more dead compared to my wooden floored current room. This will be strictly 2 channel music only, maybe someday using tube amps for the Khorns. Currently using Mcintosh SS amp. I will probably upgrade the Khorns with Crite's woofers also. I'm leaning towards SVS, but looking for suggestions, perhaps even DYI. Thanks in advance to all the Sub Gurus out there--kevin

[DrWho]

DIY will usually yield the most bang for the buck.

What kind of music are you listening to, and with what kind of source?

[RockOn4Klipsch]

i'm no pro and i'm sure others will chime in shortly with some better advice, but it seems that diy projects don't always go as well as planned. Some better than others. With the quality of the K-Horns you want a quality sub to do them justice, and a diy sub just may not hold its own unless you're quite the aficionado. In which you probably wouldn't be asking for advice of this sorts.

I've recently gotten a SVS PB 13 Ultra and I am completely in awe with this thing, not only is it absolutely beautiful it sounds great and performs like a champ. I have a relatively large room (2700+ ft^3) and very "live" so this may add to its ability to perform.

I don't think you would be disappointed at all if you were to go with SVS.

[TheEAR]

DIY will get you the most output for the dollar. DIY done right will provide you with stellar SQ also.

An example of a great DIY project is four Mach 5 IXL 18's loaded in ~6 cu ft boxes(per driver and sealed) powered by two Behringer EP2500 power amps and using the eD crossover/PEQ box.

You can go ported using two of these drivers,each in its own EBS ported box,here using one Behringer EP2500 power amd and the eD crossover/PEQ box.

A third viable solution is IB,using four Mach 5 IXL 18's backed by one EP2500(plenty and more than enough in this configuration) with the eD crossover/PEQ box.

Just three examples among many how to get ALOT of performance for the dollar. I went the sealed route with twenty 15's and 18's .....I know there is no way back to little commercial subs for me.

[kevinmi]

Thanks for all the advice so far. As far as what kind of music I listen to, mostly classic rock with a little folk and Beethoven thrown in the mix and a healthy dose of blues. I like the idea of DYI, but could you break down how much it would cost to build one like The Ear recommended? Thanks again-kevin

[DrWho]

If you go DIY, the best thing to do would be to set a budget and
acceptable footprint ahead of time. Matching the dynamics of the khorn
bass bin is a daunting task for a direct radiator, let alone an array
of direct radiators.

You should be off to a good start if the surface area of your subs
are more than about 4x the mouth area of the khorn...That's probably
not feasible, but we can back track to the realm of your feasability
from there.

[gilbertma]

I put an Epik Conquest in my man cave since WAF was not a factor. It goes low, gets loud, and works very well with my RF-7's and Emotiva amps. My cave is 40' x 12' x 10'.

[michael hurd]

With a room that big.... you could use even more sub than that, multiples of[8-|]

[TheEAR]

Matching K-Horns output down to 16Hz today is quite east to do. Four 18" sub drivers like the Maelstrom-X ported ,~12cu ft per driver,8 inch diameter flared port. Yes that translates into 48cu ft total. It is a man cave,right ? Here WAF is stomped into mud and performance comes first,not cutie pie looks.

Four ported Maelstrom-X,even Mach 5 IXL18.2.2 dribers in EBS configurations(ported,~12cu ft per driver again)you have a killer sub array to match your K-Horns and reach SPL of over 126dB even at 16Hz.

[kevinmi]

Matching K-Horns output down to 16Hz today is quite east to do. Four 18" sub drivers like the Maelstrom-X ported ,~12cu ft per driver,8 inch diameter flared port. Yes that translates into 48cu ft total. It is a man cave,right ? Here WAF is stomped into mud and performance comes first,not cutie pie looks.

Four ported Maelstrom-X,even Mach 5 IXL18.2.2 dribers in EBS configurations(ported,~12cu ft per driver again)you have a killer sub array to match your K-Horns and reach SPL of over 126dB even at 16Hz.

Wow! That sure sounds like the ticket for Man Cave deserving bass! How much extra insurance will I need to cover the broken windows and such? But seriously, how much would the components cost to make that type of sub?

[michael hurd]

Four Maelstrom-X @ $ 352 EA before shipping : $1408

Shipping estimate on woofers?? Probably about $ 100 total.

Two Behringer EP 2500 amps @ $ 300 EA: $ 600

Behringer Ultragain Mic Pro 2200 ( for subsonic filter and matching consumer and pro-gear ) @ $ 100 shipped.

4 8" sonotube concrete forms @ home depot : $ 70 or so

MDF or plywood for building boxes ~ $500 or so, depending on waste and actual panel sizes.

Miscelaneous supplies building ( Glue, sandpaper, router bits, connectors, etc... ) $ 200 or so

RCA to XLR cables, and XLR to XLR cables ~ $ 50 or less if you build them yourself.

I would wager that a project of this magnitude would set you back about the $ 3000 mark, you can build for less obviously but going with large boxes requires more sheet goods and more cutting, more assembly time. ( also more finishing time ! )

Of course, this does not include beer runs, late night race to Home Depot for something you forgot, gas, labour etc. []

If you don't have access to a nice table saw, consider paying someone to set up and cut all your panels for you to assemble. Repeated cuts that are all the same ( same setup costs ) should be reasonable. I see no reason why you couldn't make up a cut list based on panel dimentions and have someone read, interpret and cut the material for you at a reasonable cost. ( remember to allow for the saw kerfs )

Having a blast when you turn them on and your friend's jaws hit the floor = priceless...

[kevinmi]

Thank you, Mr. Hurd! I really appreciate the cost breakdown. After I get settled in to my new house I'll have to seriously consider my options.-kevin

[michael hurd]

Kevin: if you have an adjacent space in your basement that you can use ( say a root cellar or laundry room ) that can be sealed up well, you might want to look into an infinite baffle design which uses airspace of another room / attic / garage for the rear wave. Build a manifold from plywood and brace it well, mount into wall cavity and load drivers designed for that operation. ( AE Speakers IB 15's, Fi 18's, etc ) Wire it all up and install one amplifier of your choice. ( EP2500 being the best bang for the buck, however the stock fan needs to be replaced with a quieter one, or mounted elsewhere )

The general rule is that in order to reproduce low frequencies cleanly at any power level you need large amounts of surface area.

[CECAA850]

Ditto on the IB. 4 Ficaraudio 18" IB drivers and a Behringer EP-2500 is an awesome cost effictive way to get usable clean output into the single digits.

[TheEAR]

IB is the way to go to get the absolute maximum performance per dollar invested.

* FiCar has shady customer service,no phone to all and I sent them two emails to buy teh BTL18's and for the IB drivers never got any repply !? A serious company ,you can call them and speak with someone there,no phone listed on their webpage!? All other companies I could call and speak with the owner or at least someone when some questions (shipping , quality control related came).