JLM

I can't believe that no one has asked what genre of jazz you were interested in!! There's just so much material and so many styles of jazz! Check out "Jazz for Dummies" and the recent PBS series on Jazz by Ken Burns. Jazz is an American treasure.

Being new to this extensive forum and lazy, I'd like to ask: Does the quality of sound from the RF-7's come mostly from design, build quality, or the efficiency of the speaker? I've gotten the impression over the years that Klipsch fans like it very loud. And so, not being one of those, I've steered away. At the same time I'm a big believer in brute force and that just a brute extra "beefy-ness" can cover a multitude of other short comings in many things in life. Take audio for instance. Oversized amps won't clip. Speaker cones/diaphrams that are bigger move less per dB so they distort less. Tube amps distort less under less power. All this points towards more efficient speakers distorting less and sounding better. But I'd like to hear from you all. Is the Klipsch sound quality (lets avoid the whole issue regarding the "horn sound") due mostly to better drivers, better design, or increased efficiency. thanks, jeff

Due to circumstances beyond my control, the audio system is in the office/dining room. So everyone gets to hear my music during dinner. Occasionally I catch one of our 5 kids liking the stuff or curious enough to ask what it is.

Beware that Dan Wright has been changing what CDP's he'll mod, based on a number of factors. Check out his forums. From some of his latest replies he much prefers the Music Hall modded over the Ah Tube 4000.

In the $2,000.00 range, I'd look for a good used Sony 9000ES and send it to Modwright for the full treatment. I've read where the last couple of Phillips SACD players have had quality /reliability problems. just my 2 cents

Good, inexpensive DAC's: Channel Audio, ART DI/O, ART DI/O as modded by Bolder Cable (smART DI/O, Mensa DI/O), and Scott Nixon's straight and tubed DAC's. Prices for these DAC's run $100 - 1,000.00. If you're tempted to go the modified route I recommend to start with a quality player, espcially the transport, and go to a quality modder. Best if you can buy the player already modded straight from the vendor. Currently the Music Hall RAM CD-25 from Response Audio as modded by Dan Wright fulfills all these criteria the best, IMO. AH Tube 4000, Heart 6000, and the new Jolida are popular alternatives. They all run about $1,000.00. Check audiogon for a used Sony SACD 9000 (should be able to score one for around $700.00). This exception to the above recommendations can provide, as fully modded by Dan Wright, the best CD and SACD playback available under $2,000.00. This model is very well built.

With all the modded CDP's out there, it makes you wonder if anyone in the $1,000.00 - 2,000.00 price range buys factory straights. The AH Tube 4000, Heart 6000, Jolida, and Music Hall have all be modded. The Music Hall as modded by Dan Wright may be the current champ in terms of sound and build qualities. Both Dan and Response Audio have good reputations and "one stop shopping" helps. The other route is the inexpensive add-on DAC's from Channel Audio (VDA-1), Bolder Cable (smART/Mensa DI/O), and Scott Nixon's (DacKit & TubeDac). And for $200 and up you can get SACD players, modded starting at %500 total. So many choices!

Dean: Most folks don't know that the SE84 based Decware amps actually love low impedance loads, the lower the better. Several owners use Paul Speltz's autotransformers to lower the impedance down to the 2 - 4 ohm range to obtain more bass and improved midrange resolution. (Paul invented the autotransformer to raise impedance to match up better with atmaspheric OTL amps.) I'm wondering how much improvement could be obtained by using the autotransformers ($450/pair) with the RF's. The autotransformers themselves are basically just transformers with multiple taps to offer 1/4, 1/2, 2/3, 2, 3, or 4 times impedance options with rather short leads, so they're a minimumal component addition to the system. And using monoblocks, could replace speaker cables. (The attraction of the RF-7 to me is full frequency response with high efficiency from a 2-way speaker, not the easiest thing to find from a reasonable compact design at a decent price. I know lots of individuals offer homebrews or kits, but many aren't very impressive and they're hard to audition.) BTW, how did you come up with the new crossover design?

Dean: Very nice looking work on the crossover. What's a "A" versus "B" crossover? BTW, I'm not a headbanger, so I don't see how a pair of 102 dB/w/m efficient speakers in my 12 ft x 20 ft x 8 ft room wouldn't reach symphonic concert peaks of 103 dB with a 2 wpc amp. Typically I listen around 80 dB (that would be roughly 0.01 wpc in my room). thanks, jeff

Yes, it's a logrithmic relationship between sound output and power input. It takes twice the power to increase the sound 3 dB and 10 times the power to increase the sound 10 dB. Note that 1 dB is the smallest increment of increase in sound that can be perceived. 3 dB sounds "half again" or 50% louder. 10 dB sounds twice or 100% louder. Zero dB is total silence, 30 dB is typical background noise at home, conversation can be comfortably carried out with music at 70 dB (as per my 1970 JBL owner's manual), most people listen seriously at around 85 dB, symphonic concert peaks about 103 dB, rock concerts are around 110 dB, and the threshold of pain is about 130 dB. Dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and the loudest passages. LP's and tapes are limited to roughly 50 dB. Digital formats can provide 100 dB dynamic range. As derived from above, the human ear can only comfortably handle a range of 75 dB in a typical listening environment. This was one of the big arguments in favor of CD's 20 - 25 years ago. But typically music has a much smaller dynamic range, maybe 20 dB. Here's where the debate of comparing tube watts and solid state watts comes in. Tubes clip gently, in a way that speakers can handle. Solid state clips hard, in a more destructive way that is also much more annoying. So tubes watts are said to be equal to twice the number of solid state watts. Sounds like alot, but as discussed above, it's only 3 dB. By adding the speaker's efficiency rating as measured in dB per watt per meter away to the dB gain from your amp, you can calculate how loud it will go. Qualifiers: average sized room (roughly 2,000 cu. ft); 2 speakers reasonably positioned. So my 86 dB/w/m speakers would produce 106 dB at 100 watts (10 dB increase from the first 10-fold increase in power plus another 10 dB from the next 10-fold increase in power). Here's a quick chart: 1 watt = 0 dB of gain 2 watts = 3 dB of gain 4 watts = 6 dB of gain 5 watts = 7 dB of gain 8 watts = 9 dB of gain 10 watts = 10 dB of gain 20 watts = 13 dB of gain 40 watts = 16 dB of gain 50 watts = 17 dB of gain 80 watts = 19 dB of gain 100 watts = 20 dB of gain 1000 watts = 30 dB of gain Extreme examples (stereo in an "average" room): 1. Totem Mite, roughly 80 dB/w/m efficient and can handle 100 watts, maximum sound pressure = 100 dB. This is less than concert levels. Note that the Mite is not rated above 100 watts. 2. Klipschorns, are 104 dB/w/m efficient, with a 2 watt tube amp (that remember clips softly for another 3 dB of headroom), maximum sound pressure = 110 dB. This is more than symphonic concert peak levels and provides rock concert levels. So you can see that speaker efficiency can make more difference in maximum sound pressure output that amplifier ratings. Other factors, such as impedance matching can also play a significant role in just how loud your speakers will play. So about any of the reference series speakers should provide symphonic concert levels from a 12 wpc tube amp.

Hi, I'm new here, but have been lurking on and off for a couple of months. Background: 46 year old male, been interested in audio for 30+ years. Have always had solid state, but my next amp will be tube based. Am very interested in Decware SE84CS (1.8 wpc, EL84 based single ended triode, $700.00, only 7 components, no wiring-just leads between components, made in America's heartland, faster/quieter/more accurate/more detailed/better imaging than 2A3 or 45 based SET's). Still in search of the perfect CD/SACD/DVDa player with remote control and variable 4 volt output. Plan to build a dedicated listening room/office 13 feet x 19 feet x 8.5 feet in the next couple of years. I've come to the conclusion that crossovers are evil, but that there is no such thing as a single truely full range driver, like so many of the SET fans would suggest. The Jordan 92S comes the closest at 40 - 20,000 Hz, but I want to reach at least 30 Hz and do it with a single crossover. Of course with a whopping 1.8 wpc, my ideal speaker would have to be quite efficient (the Jordans are only about 87 dB/w/m). I'm not a headbanger, but the ideal speaker would play jazz, pop, classical, and classic rock at substantial but sane levels (60 - 100 dB). It was another poster here, who also posts to the Decware site, that reported how good his RF-5s and 7s sounded with his SE84CS that got me over here. I've only briefly heard the RF 3s, 5s, and 7s on solid state and rather liked what I heard (detailed, dynamic, good tonality, a more forward presentation than most speakers). Comment: Compared to the Decware site, there doesn't seem to be much detailed information on the Klipsch site regarding the design/construction of their products. Wonder why. Question (finally): Please specify the design of the crossover (frequency and slope). thanks! jeff