wheelman

actually i take that back i rate it an 8 because i am the second owner. I am becoming very partial to the center channel sound. I used to have a tinny center i do not now. I hope i didn't make a mistake by getting the harman this thing sounds better to me everyday. This pup almost sounds better without the sub on. It has good bass and control. It's got to be the weirdest receiver to set up i have ever encountered. It comes with original box manuel(is that how you spell that?) and remote.

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Denon 1801 for sale. Has preouts for the main three. 250.00 shipped. Paypal preferable.

---------------- On 1/30/2004 7:36:05 AM hoggy wrote: That's funny. I've had more items delivered to the wrong address by UPS than Fed Ex. Think it's a driver thing. Of course that's only been twice but one was my D1x wqhich at the time was worth $5k and I worried for over a week. I even asked my usual UPS driver if he remembered delivering it and he said no which turned out to be false. So it's always a gamble. hoggy ---------------- Yeah it definetly is a driver thing their just a little slow around here on the fed ex wagon. Alot probally has to do with the same ups man delivering me goods over ten years now. He always says i am his job security.

I didn't understand a word anyone said. But i do think the amplifier breaking in has more to do with the improved sound i am hearing. And their is no battling that thought because it is true. I know cold when i hear it and i know warm. But for the speakers sake i think they should sound good right out of the box. I forget i have been using different receivers with different characteristics in tone so it really screwed me up when i thought about it. The very first thing i noticed about klipsch was the way the midrange was laid back and not in your face hollow sounding like most speakers. That truely sold them to me. I couldn't stand hearing this tin can sound from every speaker i heard unless you eq the mids and i do not like to eq anything. Now when i talk about midrange this is a huge area so i am no expert on it i just no it doesn't sound boxy or hollow. And i am totally cool with that right out of the box.

Bigger is better. Quality of the cable is a big issue. I don't understand why people buy ****ty cable and then ***** about a product being made in china. When quality is the reason why people ***** about other countries. I mean come on now if that wasn't the issue we would all be rascist to say something sucked from another country. I know it means everything to support our economics in our country. But hay share the wealth some of those other countries need a little help. We are so lucky to be here on our computers argueing about speaker wire. That is the wealth of our country and the help of our brave men and women that serve our country ( God bless them all i hope they all make it back alive). Quality does matter otherwise why even by klipsch if it didn't. Why hook up a cheep peice of crap to a good amp and speaker. Your telling me the people that use crappy cables use crappy interconnects. Yeah! right! And i know alot of people on the forum are from other countries and God bless them. To all the people that use the cheep speaker wire you might as well just use the out of box interconnects. What is the difference your losing everything you put into. I am not saying buy the brand name stuff just do not get the cheesy stuff.

To be honest with you i have auditioned a couple pair of bose speakers in my home. None of the cube things just the big booshelfs the new ones. And their biggest towers. They need alot of power to get them loud, but they will stay clean if you have power. Their is no imaging at all. It is a complete diffused mono sound which really stunk when watching tv. Some music sounded ok like acoustic guitar. It really sounded good that mono guitar in the room. One good thing they had was the ability to hear lyrics i never heard before. It blew me away in that area. I still have not ever heard a speaker where i heard them hard to understand lyrics so clearly. But other than that they sucked. No highs and the bass is not very deep but what it does have it is good. Their is no hard pan from left to right. So i returned them. They really are not that bad i heard a heck of alot worse. Now i am talkin about their real speakers. I probally could of lived with their old towers with alot of power. Then again for the price they were i could of got klipsch towers that were way better. Which i did. I have nothing against bose. I just don't like satellite sub system no matter who makes them klipsch included.

Hk, Marantz, nad, arcam, rotel, b&k, Bob Carver. That is if you like music at all. Onkyo Entry will smoke anything at the price range. Plus onkyo are known for oustanding build quality and massive power. I would only consider onkyo entry for the money then move on up to the above mentioned. Outlaw will have a new receiver in the middle of the year coming out. All these receiver are better than most old ones. Except some of the really old ones do music very well. Which in my opinion is everything Screw a receiver if it sounds good with movies and not music. That is about the ****tiest trade off a company can make. Movies are practically all music in the background unless your watching indie film or documentary. Which by the way can be great movies. If someone says a receiver is so so for music and good for movies. Then well i would sell that receiver as quick as possible, because that just isn't possible. Listen to a receiver that sounds good with music chances are that receiver will sound completely awesome with movies. No one needs all those noisy dsp's in there receiver. Their should be direct, stereo, dolby digital, dts, and that's it. What good is anything else? Really i never been to a theater and had it sound like all that echoey reverb that muddies that sound. I hear clear warm full tone that only a good musical receiver can give you in the movie department. One of my buds said he put up a sherwood new castle up to the most expensive denon and the sherwood completely blew the denon away. He said they heard a huge difference in the soundstage and clarity. Everything better and he owns soundscape and is a Klipsch heretige dealer. So that is a receiver to consider. I haven't heard it i am not fortunate enough to live near a dealer. But if i was i sure would check one out if he said they were one of the most musical recievers on the market even better than arcam and them. Do i believe him? Well i guess because everyone has their own opinion in sound and what i like and what you like are probally not going to be the same. But when something sounds really good all opinions are the same.

You should use UPS. I really don't like fed ex. They will deliver goods of mine to the neighbors all the time. By the way fed ex is about as dumb as it comes.

I would say about a year of constanly listening to them. But you try this with other speakers some sound worse. Right out of the box some sound better than when their broken in. Not my klipsch's though they sounded quite a bit better about a year later. They are warmer and smoother now with a lot more inner detail. I have noticed lately songs on the radio even sound like their new versions, because i can hear the vocal so clearly. Now i can hear them taking in breaths when needed. And this is on a radio station that isn't completely clear. Never heard that even six months ago with them speakers. My sf-2 seem to sound better as they go. I do not really get it. But hay that's cool with me. I believe you can get used to a sound then it seems like a break in period worked but in this case it just is better. Your amp is more critical of a break in period. Now this is just my superior being opinion.

Thanks guys i will look into it. I never heard paradigm and curious what they sound like. I know i want klipsch, but the thought of not hearing a speaker with pretty good reviews drives me nutz. But anyhow i probally will try and get a ride and to hear the paradigm. The klipsch's will probally be the only speaker i will be able to live with after havig mine for so long. Hears a question if i get the klipsch bookshelf and a used denon ht receiver with preouts could i use a tube amp to run the mains? Or would the preamp section stink in the denon? I just purchased a denon 1801 on ebay just for the preouts. What if i had the paradigm mini monitor which i think are rated at 90 sensitivity. Would they work with tube amplification? I know how well tubes sound with my guitar setup. I have a mesa boogie dc-5, and it drips with tone and has awesome bottom end for a fifty watt amp. I use greenbacks for speakers to get my bluesy tube and speaker break up sound. The only way to go! I couldn't imagine the bliss of a tube stereo setup. Lucky, lucky people. I could always just listen to regular tv with just the center and when i wanted critical ht and music turn the tube amp on. Don't ever turn a tube amp on without speakers connected to it. Not good it doesn't bother solid state though. But i am sure you all new that.

I take back anything i said about the orginal monster cable. It is a true performer. I just needed to burn my receiver in more. I am talking hundreds of hours. That baby is smoother than ever now and i blamed the cable for it and their is nothing wrong with them. My mistake their i just couldn't believe my receiver hasn't been fully broken in yet. Escpecially from someone that preaches about about burn in. It just took alot longer than i expected with the onkyo. I am waiting on a denon 1801 older model i bought off of ebay. See how i like the denon seeing how alot people around here like them they got to have something to offer. The onkyo really is starting to open up i can hear peoople breathing in between words sometimes. The wire harshness is gone it had nothing to do with the wire. So i judged to quickly, and i can say their defenitely more dynamic than most cables.

The biggest improvement will be going from coax or even composite to s video. Then from their on their will only be subtle differences. NOthing like going from composite to s video. But i would definetely go for the better component. Without a doubt better is better and the colors will be awesome on cartoons.

Hi, i am thinking of selling my klipsch sf-2 and going with a bookshelf speaker for better imaging cleaner midrange. It just seems to sound better in my room this type of set up. I have a mirage ms 12 subwoofer. The canidates are first the klipsch rb-25. Then their the paradigm mini monitor, and mayby the b&w 303 or the paradigm studio 20 used. I like the speaker to have good dynamics but not to be to big in size. Plus i could take the extra money and put it towards a better amp. Which seems to me to be just as important as the speaker itself. I currently am using an onkyo receiver 501 for music and movies. I would like to get a used arcam or rotel receiver later. Mayby a denon with preouts and ad a better amp. I am more into stereo but love hometheater as well. But i have the radio on twenty four seven. Thanks for any help in advance. By the way i don't want to spend more than 400 mayby 500. Thanks again

Whats the difference? Wouldn't you use the same intrument cable as you would for bass and guitar? Seriously even the cheaper line proco out performs alot of other cables. The metallica boys use them for all stage aplications. But the kevlar is nice because i am always putting my cable through war. Just some friendly advice i am actually more of a guitar tone fanatic than stereo equipment but stereo and home theater comes in a close second.

---------------- On 1/21/2004 3:05:45 PM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 1/21/2004 9:15:55 AM Bruinsrme wrote: We all agree the fatter the cable the less resistance it will have. So a cable with 350 micro strand will have more surface area than a 8 ga wire therefor less resistance. Now with that said, is the chemistry of the cable or wire important to the performance. No brainer here. some metals conduct better than others. But on a 5 foot even a 10 foot run how much of a difference is it going to make? Uhhmmmm Is that $2000 speaker wire going to bring more or less audio out? Uhmmmmm I have looked at a lot of cables and Monster is adequate but their construction quality control is shotty. Bluejeans cable, kimber cable, MIT and Better cables claim to be better. They are constructed with more attention to detail than that of the monster cables, JMO. How much do you want to spend on cable? take a look at the cables we have mentioned. In the end I would not truly recommend Monster because their price point and workmanship is lacking behind others at or near the same price. ---------------- Fair enough assessment. I like the sound of the Monster stuff I've used, but I'm not really pleased with its durability. I've used the Monster 500 instrument cables - accidentally stepped on one on stage and it immediately broke open the circuit. That's why I said that Mogami, Canare, and many other cable manufacturers will do better than Monster. ---------------- try some proco cables they are awesome for guitar. Try the guardian series defender with the kevlar lining. Life time guarantee and virtually indestructable. Way more balanced from top to bottom, and more resolution.

Onkyo probally sucks thats why i didn't hear any problems with harman kardon. Of course some people may like the cold over the warm, but not many. Not to shabby for home theater though. Although i prefer a warm sound for home theater too just like a theater is really. I prefer a smoother sounding cable. And i never been to a theater where the sound was cold and bright. It was always rich and full with a warm voice and smooth treble. So if you have a cold amp you would benefit from a smoother warmer cable.

How much for the ss.1?

Some cables ad certain characteristics to your sound. So cables do make a difference to some people. I wouldn't say everyone would benefit. But i would like to have a smooth and balanced sound with my klipsch's. Seeing how they are a bit forward and bright with a neutral amp. I would like to ad sweetness to that and come up with a real nice balance. When i can afford it. Minn Male is probally right about the same size being the same. The price difference isn't probally worth it for some. I prefer a smaller gauge wire i just don't like the monster originals harshness. Then theirs the quality of the copper and how it is stranded or braided or whatever technique. Most hi end stores will tell you that thinner gauges are better for transperant highs. Which is a bunch of hooey. The only honest to goodness thing i can say is i like 16 gauge wire better than the monster original. Now that i think about it i was comparing the xp to the original. Which are of different gauges. Now i am curious. I read a good review on my puchase of the tara labs klara which was the gauge i was looking for. But paid more than i wanted to. So i guess i was suckered into a marketing gimmick like a bose product. I'll let you know if it is anybetter when it comes in now i am pissed i spent 70 dollars for them.

I don't know but i can hear a smoother sound when i use the same size speaker wire. When i compare radio shack to monster cable xp i hear a much smoother sound. So what's the deal their do i have something wrong with my ears? I hear it this isn't my imagination. I wouldn't be putting my monster cable originals down if i wasn't hearing the difference. I know their a different size but i do hear a difference in some brands. But is it worth the price? That is really up to the person. Actually the main thing i wanted was banana plugs factory terminated. So they wouldn't fall off if i did it. The reason being it's just easier hooking up equipment and testing different receivers. This is worth it to me. You could by radio shack wire and ad those connectors yourself. I have done it. I wanted it done from the factory.

Boston PSYCH!

Yeah there is a difference monster cable sucks compared to lamp cord. That is the monster orginal which makes things conjested and tinny but adds more loudness and bass. But this cable also gives you shrill highs. Now the monster xp is a good smooth cable. Get that if your going with monster. I am trying some tara labs klara. It hasn't came in the mail yet, but i am sure it will be better than the monster orginal. The orginal makes everything sound like a cheap tinny sound. Try some tara labs if you can find them for a dollar a foot without connectors. With connector it will ad alot more on the price tag. They got really good review and beat out alot of more expensive ones for home theater. By the way i got mine from soundscape. Very nice people and they were a hard cable to track down when your in the sticks. Later

athena af-1 i compared and they been both brutally broken in for over a year at least from music and movie fanatics that me and my brother are. Mayby you didn't like them because they were not completely broken in, and the right electronics can make em or break em. I think amplification is half the sound. The sf-2 are truly a great speaker when you properly set them up and have good connection good amplification and cd dvd source. They are warm yet tight and clear. Hook some crappy receiver to them then they could be the worst speakers you ever heard. The athenas aren't that bad they just need more watts to run them properly. It's just a matter of taste i am sure their are people out their that like the synergys better than the reference for their difference in tone. Just like the heretage line people like different models.

Harman kardon is the sweetest sound iv'e heard yet. Don't look at their watts their alot more powerful than sony or onkyo. Beleive me when you here hk with klipsh's you will be late for work you won't beable to sleep. You will just want to listen to your speakers all the time they never fatigue you. Seriously I have an onyko it doesn't cut it know that i heard my brothers hk hooked up to my system i am now saving up for the hk. I heard nad is sweet to, and i am sure the rotels are. If i had that kind of money i would try the rotel then nad then hk. But i don't. But if you want to save money and have a guaranteed sweet sound hk is the way to go.

listen to your local pbs station. I am not sure if that is it but one of them plays classical and all that jazz. I like jazz on the klipsh's myself. Adult swim big o seems to have cool jazz in the background all the time. (cartoon network) late at night.