Deang

Now, now, y'all keep your pantyhose on and don't get yourselves all worked up:) I'm telling they both sound great, and each has inherent strengths and weaknesses. I don't know where the RF-7's were auditoned at, in what room, or associated equipment -- but I can tell you the 7 is not the 5 -- not even close. The horn on the 7 is a monster, and is more like a pro-style driver than what is used in the RF-5 and below. I can tell you that life with the Heresies has been great. I believe they have more clarity than the RF-7's, are crisper -- and deliver a more articulate sound at low to moderate listening levels. However, they pinch up rather quickly -- and aren't all that pleasent to listen to at 95db and above ('true' 95db at the listening position). There is more compression than with the RF-7, they are not nearly as dynamic, or have as much resolving power when it comes to low level detail. In spite of this, the Heresies are an extremely musical speaker to listen to -- and I have trouble pulling myself away from them. I understand that the Heresy is not the Cornwall, and I'm sure the Cornwall will do better with higher SPL's, but I'm also sure the Heritage signature will remain intact -- and I believe overall, the Cornwall will succumb to some of the same problems as the Heresy (compression). I do believe that Heritage, like any speaker -- benefits from some toe in. I've got my Heresies throwing a nice stable image -- with dead on center voices. The RF-7's can be driven to insane levels with no discernable compression, maintaining their signature regardless of volume level. They image better than the Heresies -- not just throwing a nice side to side soundstage, but front to back as well. Though not as crisp or clear as the Heresies, they have an uncanny ability to layer the music -- separating everything out from top to bottom. In other words, I think they do a better job of pulling low level detail out of the music and getting it to the ears. Then of course there is the slam factor. The RF-7's are simply the bomb. They are an extremely 'fast' sounding speaker, and everything is very tight and buttoned up. I think Al K. is correct when he talks about the ears making adjustments. If I listen to the Heresies for a few days, and then go upstairs and fire up the RF-7's, I think to myself - "man, there's something missing here." After a few cuts off of a CD I say, "damn, there it is -- oh so sweet". The next day I'm in the basement on the computer, or doing some work in the workroom and fire the Heresies up, I say, "Yeah, they are a little bright -- not much warmth, and they could use a bit of polish -- a little more refinement." 1/2 an hour later I come out of the workroom -- and Kerry Livgren sounds like he's standing in my basement, and the cymbals sound like they're coming off a real drumkit. Heritage and Reference are simply two sides of the same coin. Debate is fruitless. They both sound great in different ways. That's all there is to it.

rotflol:) classic fini beautiful

Hee hee. I was actually thinking that TUBES LOVE HORNS:) Colin, did you ever try anything to alleviate the symptoms of the 8Khz hump (when you had your Cornwalls)? 100Hz bump sounds pretty good to me:) Anyone have an impedance curve for the Cornwalls? I'm wondering what the impedance is at 8Khz. Depending on the impedance at that point -- a tube amp may either exasberate, or smooth out that spot.

We really need our own FAQ link here on 2-channel. Especially guidance type stuff for new folks. I think Boa should head one up over in the HT section. I like the 'odds and mods' section, as well as the 'updating older speakers' section. The trouble is, if I have a question or problem, I come here, because 'here' is where I 'know' people. I usually just 'lurk' at the other places, and sure don't post often. Sometimes I need the hardcore unadulterated truth with no B.S. -- then I got hunt down John Warren, James McCall, or Tom Brennan. No offence intended to others here -- but if you've ever read their posts, you know what I mean. Sometimes I just need a reality check.

Thanks Andy! Even looks like something I can't screw up. Perfect. I wish you would change that signature of yours. I'm sure many here would agree that you are one of the more gifted and intelligent people that hang out here.

Sorry guys (Kevin also), the amp was just sold to 'Harry' -- a faithful lurker here at the Form (I think we would be surprised to find how many folks just love to hang out here and read about our lunacies. Art, The metal job on the Scott was done using a Scotchbrite scratchpad (equivelant to .000 steel wool, but does not fray), and 1500 grit cloth. Start with the scratchpad to loose all surface grit, grease, stains, etc. It's important to only go in one direction as much as possible. When finished, vacuum. Vacuum well, especially the tube sockets. Then begin again with the cloth. One direction only. It's not always possible to do this because of things you have to get to with wierd angles. Keep in mind that the cloth is removing a bit of metal, and so leaves a 'grain'. Going in one direction helps it to make it not to look like, well -- like some idiot scoured it with an SOS pad:) The whole surface will turn black from this process. When finished, used windex to clean everything off (spray the windex on a clean cotton rag, not on the amp). A tee-shirt will do nicely for this. At this point, go back over it again with the scratchpad to restore the satin look it started with. Again, one direction only. When you are happy with the look, vacuum again -- pay special attention to the tube sockets. Remove the bottom plate of the amp and vacuum. I used the horsehair brush attachment. When done, remove the brush and do the tube sockets from underneath. The whole process took me about 5 hours. Craig, The 299b will probably show up on your doorstep sometime next week. It's coming directly to you from Cleveland. I may want to drop some PIO's in for the coupling caps -- I'm still thinking. Kelly, Before I box this amp up, I will take several pictures of the bottom for you.

You actually think theirs someone here on two channel that actually doesn't know what the front of one of these looks like? Hmmm. Gee, guess I need to throw some up.

What the hell's wrong with you goons. I figured this thing would be gone in two hours. C'mon now. Fully restored and tweaked by Craig. This was Craig's personal amp, so you know he went the extra mile with it. Then I got a hold of it and put the sweat equity into the cosmetics. I may have to list this on AudiogoN soon -- if you are considering push-pull tubes, don't let it slip away.

Merry Christmas Aristidis! I had to put on sunglasses to look at the picture:) My KR300BXLS' are the complete antithesis of those Svetlanas. No light at all.

I'm pretty sure your significant other would notice Scalas sitting on top of the Klipschorns. I don't think you want do that anyway, I'm not sure you wouldn't compromise the structure of K-horns by loading 125lbs on them. My idea of buying Cornwalls went over better than I expected, but then -- she really likes the sound of the Heresies.

If I remember from earlier threads regarding this subject -- I believe the 6550's will offer more bottom end slam, but will be lacking in the warmth department. If it's any consolation -- I don't think Kelly cares for 6550 all that much. I believe he would say, "The 6550 offerings do not deliver a classical tube sound. While they do put foward in the area of dynamics, I find them unable to deliver much bloom, or contribute much to midrange liquidity, which I find essential in experiencing the next level of engagement with the music. As a matter of fact, they might sound much like Dean's Apollos -- stay away"

The 'A' version is the one with two parts or something like that right? So, you find that simpler is better? Interesting. I've never seen a schematic for the Laurels, so I don't know how they are laid out. So, two stages, two sets of coupling caps in each amp -- is that how that works?

Me wants the bigger lenses I gotta get away from this system -- the one upstairs is starting to gather dust. Of course, the upside is that this will really extend tube life on the Apollos. Them KRs aint cheap. I think part of it is simply because the basement is where the computer and my workroom are , and well -- now I can do three things at the same time. Last night I listened to the Beatles all night, cruised the Forum and did email, finished 4 of the 5 drivers on the DQ's, and finished the light sanding work on the bass bin. Ready to paint and prime. Looking forward to the instructions for the stands Andy. Just what I need: another project! DQ-10's, Hesesy x-overs, Cornwall x-overs when they show up, and now stands to boot. Manual, I've posted some general comments regarding the two in comparison. The Heresies are on the 'budget' system in the basement. Scott 299a & Marantz DV7010. The Marantz is really a pretty good deck, not on the same level as the 9000es -- but it did retail for $899 two years ago. Here are some of my more recent comments: "For now, I'll only say they sound very good, but will also say that many of you are unduly harsh regarding the Reference lineup. I really don't see the signatures between Heritage and Reference being all that substantially different. It's almost like the bumps and dips in the frequency response are just in different places, but other than that -- the Heresies and RF-7's have the same snappy midrange, and crisp, smooth highs. The RF-7's have it all over the little Heresies in dynamics -- but those Heresies really boogie." "The RF-7's and Heresies have almost as much in common, as they don't have in common. I do think the RF-7's need to be placed off to the side when discussing comparisons between Reference and Heritage. I mean, the driver/horn in the 7 is very different from the one used in the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5. Kelly recently compared his Cornwalls to the RF-5, and really preferred the Cornwalls -- but the RF-5 is not the RF-7. Besides leo and myself, I don't think anyone here has driven the RF-7's with push-pull and/or SET. Leo's getting ready to build his Moondogs, and his future report will be very interesting indeed. At any rate, I think it much fairer to compare the Heresy to the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5, as this is where it really falls. Leo's (Leok) earlier posts comparing his Fortes to his RF-7's always left me feeling a bit confused. He claimed the Fortes were smoother on top, and the RF-7's were somewhat hotter, making them sound more 'live'. I always thought the complete opposite would be true. This comes from my general experience with three-ways compared to two-ways, along with my exposure to LaScalas and K-horns in the past. What I found is that Leo is right. The RF-7's ARE hotter than the Heresies. I'm sure this has mostly to do with the titanium driver in the RF-7. The RF-7's project a sense of immediacy, and though they may not have the hair trigger dynamics of the LaScala -- they do very well in their own right." Observation by Audioreality that I thought was pretty good. "Hello all, Glad to hear it Dean. isn't it nice when you discover something you really like. I did an extensive a/b last night with my Jolida 202. I switched back and forth betwen my RF7s and my Fortes. Quite an experience. Both sets completely opened up for me. Smooth, liquidy top ends and deep, punchy bass. I personally like the depth of the Fortes midrange, but the RF7 has it beat in dynamics. Hands down. The Forte was much more involving. Like a 5th row speaker. The RF7 was portraying a sound reminisent of large concert stacks, yet wasn't fatiguing to listen to. Definately more a front row speaker."

Pretty dramatic shift in the signature. They really did sound good on the floor, but now -- the cymbals sound like I have a drum kit sitting in front of me. The Scott really complements these little boxes.

Craig, while you are out at Ned's site, pick up a quad of the Svetlana KT-88's. I ran these in both of my AE-25's, and they sound dynamite.

Are we like a family? I don't know. Think about what you were feeling while reading one of HornEd's recent posts about his failing health, or Chris Robinson revealing the problem with tbabbs ears, or the stuff Jim Cornell went through sometime back. How about PWK passing on? I never even met the gentlman, and I felt like I lost my grandpa. I actually get a little physically ill to my stomach when I hear about these things. The funny thing about it is -- I don't really freaking know any of you! I certainly think this forum is unique. I sure can't imagine any kind of a group hug experience over at the Asylum, Homethearterforum, or soundandvision's joke of a site. I will say that the guys over at the Polk Forum are pretty tight, and in many ways, are a lot like us -- in love with a brand that for whatever reason, isn't taken very seriously by most audiophiles -- but they will all most certainly die 'Polkheads'.

Andy, Any chance of getting a digital picture of those stands. Most stands available on the market don't have a large enough plate to accomodate the wide base of the Heresies with any stability. I did find a set that would work, but they cost close to $300. Needless to say, any extra money goes to Jeff for his Cornwalls -- so I need to be imaginative.

Are you attempting to remedy something, or just experimenting? What are the values of the Laurel's coupling caps? I'm certainly interested in what you find when you pull the PIO's. I've actually been thinking about trying the PIO's -- just to see what they do. I do feel however, that the Hovlands in the Apollos do quite well with RF-7's -- but it would be nice to do a comparison. What I would really like to do is experiment with the caps in my crossover, but I'm so in love with how the 7's sound as is -- I don't what there is to "fix". Have you done anything to your K-horns, or are the stock?

Like most speakers, the Heresies respond very well to fiddling. I've always heard that Heritage for the most part doesn't image all that well. While I was over at the Polk Forum some time back, the comments were basically, "Yeah, great speakers if you like "Left and Right". I have no idea where this stuff comes from. I've had the Heresies on the floor, with the risers -- to get some reinforcement for the bass. I've been trying not to use the sub, as I've always had some trouble getting the signature of the sub to integrate with the bass exhibited by tubes. Last night I brought them up about 2 feet. The Heresies are no longer for sale.

That's what I did, I sure as hell ain't giving them my credit card number.

That's right, they're beamy as hell -- so make sure you point those sweet horns right at your head Actually, this 'beamy' thing is nonsense. The horns provide a degree of controlled directivity, which allows you to focus the sound into the listening area. Direct radiators (almost an oxymoron), are much more sensitive to placement, especially as it relates to the side walls -- which are a source of reflections that destroy the timing cues.

You won't get the full benefit of the VTL signature with the Sony solid state preamp -- it will probably lack a little warmth. However, I'm rather fond of the ES stuff, and I think you will find the combo rather musical none the less. You should probably start saving for a tubed preamp to get the full benefit of what the VTL has to offer. At any rate, the RF3's should crank out some pretty serious sound.

Hey Randy, since you got Hovlands laying around, and thinking about throwing some Jupiters in -- I can only guess this means you have the Jensens in there right now, it that true? Kelly, been wanting to try the Risch design for some time. Maybe it's time for me to yank those Monsters. As far as speaker cables go -- The MIT's seemed to do well on the Superamp, but your description of how they sound on SET is dead on.

You don't need a turntable. I just used the Jedi Mind Trick. Did it work?

I guess there are absolutes. It's certainly true about the transformers and steel rectification. I have hum, and I sure wouldn't describe the midrange as "liquid". The hum reduced with the new tubes. I was surprised by this, but it's still there. It's just something I have to put up with, using the Apollos on a more sensitive speaker than they were designed to run with. I'll take the hum however, and the power that goes along with it. Randy, I do believe cables make a difference. I just don't believe the differences are anything like some people make them out to be.