Deang

Well no wonder they work so goodf>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 07:47 PM

Josh, please don't forget about diminshing returns. I'm sure everybody here is sick of me saying this, but since you haven't been here in a while... In 1996 I bought an Anthem CD-1 player with a tubed output. I paid $1700 for that thing. It used some of the best parts throughout. I bought a Sony DVP-S9000ES recently to try out SACD, and as is usually the situation I find myself in -- the Anthem had not sold yet when the Sony arrived. I had almost a week to compare them head on. I wrote a review that details the comparisons at the Asylum. In short, the Sony stomped the Anthem. Since the Cary and other high end offerings are newer, you may get an increase in performance -- but I believe you will find it miniscule. Sink your money into a tube amp instead! f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 12:16 PM

A pair of 20's for less than $400? That's a pretty outrageous deal. I wouldn't think the 30's are more than twice as good. More bass, more slam for sure. But for less than $400 I would be doing the 20's. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

How the heck did I miss this thread? Great post, and really quite funny.f>s> Your basic sixteen-year-old butt-wiggling spandex-encased virgin diva, your basic four- or five-guy calisthenic boy-band, your basic pierced, tattoo-encrusted, goateed garage band, your basic pierced, tattoo-encrusted, goateed, leather-sheathed bad-boy metal munchers, your basic sexy-to-the-max, shrink-wrapped slinky girl trio, your basic good-'ol-boy/girl in a big Stetson.f>s> rotflolf>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 11:34 PM

Ken, sounds like you need to take your meds too.f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Now Mallet, cut the kid a break. I'm disappointed in you. You are probably one of the best people on this forum to help him out -- and you decide to do the pile driver on him Now, take those meds and come back and help this kid out. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Your choices are almost endless. It would help if we knew how much you were willing to spend and what your musical tastes are. I say go with a tubed preamp with the Bryston and KLF's. IMHO. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Craig, The KLF series are considered by many to be the best 'rock' speakers ever made. Did you know KLF-30's having been popping up on uBid? You can probably get them to your front door for less than a $1000. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Well, my DJH version of the Super Amp showed up on my doorstep today. Since I still had my other Super Amp (because it had not sold yet), I decided to horizontal biamp just to see what the outcome would be. I couldn't vertical biamp because the amps are in fact quite different. One is Class A with 15 watts, the other is Class A/AB with 35 watts. Besides the power difference, there are some other differences as well, including the substitution for EL84's in the DJH version for the 6GC7's used in the base version. Since I had to horizontal biamp for the experiment, I e-mailed Bob Gassel earlier in the week asking if he could find out what the impedance of the individual driver sections are for the RF7's. The response came back that the top is 6 ohms and the bottom is 3.1 ohms. I was a little concerned with the latter number until I remembered the SVS does everything 51Hz and below, and so I figure the impedance doesn't drop that low. What seemed like destiny in the making, was finding out last night from the seller that Dennis Hadd had actually used this amp with his Magnepans -- and had therefore soldered it up to the 4 ohm taps. Kewl. So, I took that extended lunch break today just to tear everything down and build it back it up. Kind of had to rearrange that rack you see. I powered everything up and went outside to enjoy an indonesian clove cigarette while things warmed up. As usual, I started with something a little laid back and familiar. I would save Godsmack for later. I put on Rush Moving Pictures and forwarded to one of my old favorites, 'Witchhunt'. If you are familiar with the song then you know why I picked it. Intense transients on the drums, slamming bass, and Geddy Lee doing 'his thing'. Kelly likes to talk about 'bloom', and I'm sure what he means by this is the opening up of the soundstage, the instruments separating out some, and the whole thing being pushed out towards the listening postion. What I experienced in the first 30 seconds of this cut was more like a mushroom cloud. I pick up the remote, turn it down a little, and try to go with it. There is certainly more HF energy than before, and the bass is all enveloping. The bass catches me completely by surprise. It was really 'all enveloping' before, or, at least -- I thought it was. The only way I can describe it is to say it now has 'grip'. The SVS certainly isn't doing anything differently than it usually is, the settings are the same as always. This bass is coming from the RF7's, and is nothing short of unbelievable. The midrange is more forward, way forward. It's not out of balance with the rest of the sound -- just more forward -- and clean. Very, very clean. I look at my horns trying to figure out where all this is coming from. It's almost 'Heritage' in nature, and I try to decide what I think about it. I end up moving my chair back another 2 feet, not because I'm trying to hide from it, but more like the RF7's are telling me to back off so they can breathe a little. I turn the system down and walk out of the room. Silence as a reference point. Cup of Coffee. Cigarette. Back upstairs. Alice Cooper. Now at a more reasonable volume level. It's very wide open, and clean, with dynamics out the wazoo. The RF7's are just cruising along, and it sounds really, really good. The thing that strikes me however, is that it is also sound VERY different, much like if I had just moved a different set of speakers into the room. The sonic signature has actually changed. The balance it seems, has shifted to the midrange. I know some of you will simply not believe this, but it sounds less like cones and more like horns. At the same time however, it also seems as if the cones are now free to roam and do their thing. The bass coming from the RF7's now seems to be 'hinged' to the SVS. What I find odd about the experience is that I know much of that midrange output is emanating from the cones, and not the horns -- yet it sounds more horn-like in it's signature. My ears begin to adjust to the change, and so I begin to ease up the volume. It's tremendous sounding, and I am trying very hard to find fault. With the increase in midrange output, I'm paying very close attention to the midbass -- to make sure it's still there. It is. It's layered perfectly beneath the intensity of the midrange. Previously, the midrange was back a little more, and the midbass was more forward in comparison. The roles have now been reversed, and I decide this is what is accounting for the dramatic change. By the end of the CD, I decide that the upper bass and lower midrange are separated by a hairs width, and I can't really tell anymore where one leaves off and the other begins. I finish my long lunch with the last 20 minutes of 'Matrix'. At the conclusion of this assault, I decide that this configuration will be very hard to part with. If I had to characterize the sound overall, I would say it sounds like solid state without the 'film', or 'grain'. The clarity is crystalline, and the soundstage sits in your lap. It's glorious and bombastic, and I love it. I would say it only sounds like tubes in the area of projection and soundstage. This setup appears to be perfectly suited to the type of music I listen too, and it's absolutely killer with movies. I think I might go on a search for another DJH version of the AE-25 and give vertical biamping a whirl -- mostly because of impedance issues. It would also be nice to get some of what the DJH version does, and put it to the tweeter. I may do something transitional in the meantime however. I may buy either Ed's DJH AE-3 or a Cary SLP-94L I'm looking at right now, change the leads on the DJH Super Amp from the 4 ohm taps to the 8 ohm, and go back to one amp until I find another DJH Super Amp so I can vertical biamp. I could buy the amp once I unload the SF Line 1, and the base Super Amp. My only fear here is that I would lose the sharpness of the transients -- which I really like. At any rate, it sounds darn good right now, though probably not a sound that Kelly, or any other die hard tubie would go ape over -- but a sound that would definitely rock Ears back on his heels, and I'm thinking the likes of Tom Brennan might tip his hat as well. So, in conclusion -- I would say horizontal biamping with push-pull amps works very well with the RF7's.

Nice to see you back on the Klipsch Forum Josh. It's been a while! Now Josh, I suggested you go with a tube preamp almost two years ago. See all the misery you could have saved yourself if you would have listened to me I've been busy too. I just biamplified my RF7's with two triode amps. Seems there is no end to this madness. Ain't it fun! Your CD question. So how long have you had the Sony? I'm not familiar with that model number. The reason I ask is because the new Sony's using the latest DACs are really good. Have you been spending any time at the Hi-Rez Forum at The Asylum? The Cary is a great machine. Hard to go wrong there, and it would be a good match with your KLFs. However, I think I have pretty much decided most of the 'high-end' machines emasculate the highs in their attempts to emulate analog. OTOH -- this might be a good thing with the KLF's since they are a little more forward in nature than my RF7's. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 10:46 PM

Ed, interesting. I did get a nice Kimber power cord with my Superamp when I bought it. It came along with the ride. I went back and forth between it and a ridiculously thick power cable I got out of a 'garbage' box at work that had been used to power a huge Compaq server. I couldn't tell a bit of difference. Why not just set your player on some nice thick bubble wrap or acoustic foam --or maybe put some dimes under the feet? It would at least be interesting to try to see if the net effect is the same. Seems to me there are other effective ways of isolation and damping. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

I could live with these. Suprisingly low sensitivity however (92db/w). Still, very nice.f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Rollerballs aside, I thought maybe it was a good time share my dirty secret with you all. About 6 months ago I was getting ready to drop some big dollars on Cardis interconnects. My eyes then fell on Audioquest, and some of the things they were saying at there website prompted me to give myself a crash course on how electricity works. I work two 12 hour shifts on the weekends, and ended up giving myself 48 hours of online instruction on electricity and how it works. I also spoke with several electrical engineers at work about some of the things I was learning. I am by no means an expert, but even a rudimentary understanding of how electricity works should lead one to see how ridiculously impossible it is for a power cord, speaker cable, or interconnect, to make any difference as far as any component is concerned. If one is convinced that the reasoning behind the benefits of high-end cables sounds feasable, then I would respond by saying that any benefit supposedly gained, is lost at the binding posts, clip wire, tin soldered connections at the drivers, crossover(s), and the internal wiring at the RCA or balanced inputs/outputs of any component. However, there can be no benefit. It's complete nonsense. Personally, I don't care how long this guy has been working in a studio making recordings. A recording engineer is NOT an electrical engineer. Of course, it all comes down to what we hear, and I certainly believe that people hear differences. I will say that the differences are real, however, they are not related to anything that has to do with electricity. Like I say in the referenced thread -- belief is a powerful mechanism. However, I no longer believe that a person hears a difference merely because they convinced themselves there is a difference -- because they dropped big money on a cable(s). Rather, I believe most audiophiles are conditioned to believe that if they make ANY change to their system -- there will be a difference -- and so there is! However, I also know from experience that a cable tweak can seem dramatic -- but when I remove the said cable, the degradation is nonexistent. Doesn't this beg the question? Ed, I would just ask you: Did your wife just sit down in front of your system and exlaim -- "Oh my gosh Ed, what did you do! The bass is so much better, the treble goes on forever, and the soudstage is so much more expansive!" "Check it out honey, it's these little balls! No, not those! These!!" I think voltage changes in the AC line, and barometric pressure, are greater factors in day to day changes in the sound of our systems than anything else. As far as doppler effect goes -- all speakers do this, but horns certainly to a greater degree. The effect is caused by the listener's head rotating 360 degrees while seated at the listening position. It's also caused by having a listening chair which rests on casters -- being blown across the room by any amp playing in excess of 5 watts. The wavering tones you hear while your head is rotating is "doppler effect". f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 09:27 AM

Justin -- I never realized Canada had so many people living in it. You really didn't have to cut and paste the whole Canadian phone book. She's pretty. Can sing too huh? "Garbage and Pink"? Anything I would like? ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Buy watts by the pound ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

I hate to sound insensitive but the production and utilization of goods and services, the trading of those goods and services with other countries -- is what keeps everyone employed and makes the world go around. A little less of all these things and most of the civilized world is in serious trouble. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-01-2002 at 10:29 AM

May the wings of God's protection and his grace shine upon her! ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

I'm sorry Craig, but Ed has already agreed to accept my $120 for it. ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

That's certainly interesting. I wonder how old The Motto is?"f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1030657330&class&3&4& ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

All and any speaker will benefit from being pulled out from the back wall somewhat. 18" is good. 24" is better. 36" is best. However, you could go as close as 12" to the back wall and be O.K. It really comes down to preference. The closer to the back wall you get the more bass there is, but the soundstage suffers miserably. Pulling them out increases soundstage depth at the sacrifice of some bass output. It's best to experiment to see what you like. I like mine out into the room. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-30-2002 at 09:02 PM

I'm depressedf>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

That was built back when Pioneer really cared about how things sounded. They used discrete components and a big ole power supply in that monster. It's a 2 channel receiver with multiple speaker hookups right? It probably weighs more than your multichannel Outlaw. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Now justin, that question is atypical for you. See Ed's sig line f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-30-2002 at 07:37 PM

Mine! mine! mine!! Everybody back off f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-30-2002 at 07:36 PM