Deang

But wait!! Change out your amp Get a tube amp Get new tubes Get a tube preamp Get new tubes Change your cables Get a turntable Get room treatments Get thicker furniture Get thicker carpet Get new speakers ------------------ deanG

Am I the only poster on this board that prefers two ways? ------------------ deanG

Mobile It is odd that you would center your whole post around the point of less being more and at the same time say for a few hundred more I could have had a 4B-ST. The 3B-ST is 120 watts, which I am sure you will agree is more than enough. Actually, 4B-ST's are going for roughly $1500 - which is actually $500 more than I spent (or was willing to spend). It would have actually been a waste for me to spend an extra $500 for power I really don't need. Now that I got that out of the way - I can tell you without any doubt that if you knew my music tastes and my listening habits - the last thing in the world you would recommend to me would be 25 wpc I'm no expert - but it seems to me that even an RF7 could benefit by being driven by an amplifier that has plenty of reserve power. ------------------ deanG This message has been edited by deang on 01-30-2002 at 08:58 PM

Sorry, I just can't deal with the Monarchy's asthetics. It's also kind of wimpy at 25 wpc. Colin's post got me digging and I found it impossible to find a bad word about the Bryston 3B-ST. Then God help me I started thinking about Ears. So...I just bought a 3B-ST at AudiogoN for $1000 even. I'll mate her with my Anthem tube preamp and see what happens. ------------------ deanG

actually...i wouldn't consider the ksw series necessarily 'musical' - i see them more as decent HT subs. The ksw's rumble just fine - it's tight, articulated sound that they lack. You might want to start saving for a RSW10, 12, or 15 ------------------ deanG

1) Is it worth upgrading to the RF-7s from the Quartets? Yes, most definitely 2) Should I maybe go for an RSW-12? yes, most definitely 3) Are the Quintets inadequate for surround speakers? They would do for now 4) Should I go to a KSC-C1 center channel? No, you want all the speakers to be timbre matched. You will want the RC7 for the center channel. Whether it is worth upgrading is totally up to you. No one here can place value on that for you. Most of us here are continually upgrading. It's a disease. ------------------ deanG

As usual Colin you come through with a really great post. Aren't we supposed to buy amps buy the pound - or is that a bunch of B.S. The 3bst only weighs 22 lbs. By contrast the B&K 2140, which has roughly the same wattage - weighs 8 lbs. more. Sure wish I knew more about amps. I guess you get what you pay for ------------------ deanG

I'm going to pick one up for $1000 or a little more my choices are as follows: Adcom 5802 Aragon 8008ST NAD S200 any opinions? other choices ? tubes just don't get it for HT ------------------ deanG This message has been edited by deang on 01-29-2002 at 07:55 PM

I wouldn't worry about Ears - he's pretty resilient ------------------ deanG

read the C.M.M.D. White Paper here: http://www.infinityspeakers.com/home_audio/technology.asp ------------------ deanG

oosting - talk about 'stretching' When I first got my RB5's one of the woofers had what you describe fresh out of the box. It was obviously something that happened at the factory during assembly. Maybe it was someone like Ears flipping their interconnects around The metal is cut/punched out and considering the thickness of the material to begin with, I find your 'stretching' explanation hard to accept. The tool probably goes through the material like butter. When I had my RB5's I drove them to ridiculous levels and the drivers never looked like they were ready to jump out of the cabinet - which is about what would have to happen to cause a cone to buckle. As a matter of fact - I doubt it could happen at all. Imagine trying to apply your assumptions to the RSW15. Ears - as far as the veneer goes: veneer thickness is pretty much standardized and like any piece of furniture utilizing it - if you hit it with something sharp, it will go into the MDF. Sub $500 mass market speakers use vinyl exclusively. ------------------ deanG

Good post - I didn't know that. I wonder where the ceramic bit comes in at. It would be nice if there was more data on the drivers. Maybe the folks at Monitor Audio can shed some light on it. "Due to the metal cones' ultra -rigid nature, there is less cone flex and breakup occurring compared to conventional cone materials. The metal cones reproduce sound with near ideal pistonic motion, resulting in unsurpassed detail and transparency." Or better yet - BobG - where in the hell are ya when we need ya. ------------------ deanG This message has been edited by deang on 01-26-2002 at 02:33 PM

you got that right ------------------ deanG

There will be more bass than the Heresy's - much more. RP5's will not be as dynamic as the Heresy's, but will still have considerable punch. The RP5's will sound warmer by comparison. I would probably prefer the RP5's over the Heresy's. That doesn't mean anything though because there are plenty here who would prefer the Heresy's over the RP5's. Think of it as ear candy. They are both sweet in a different kind of way. If your brother really likes the Heresy's - why not just find some used ones on eBay? This message has been edited by deang on 01-26-2002 at 02:09 PM

mobile - you are pretty much never wrong about anything but this time you screwed up. It's the music. ------------------ deanG

Boa - who says this isn't rocket science? Yeesh. Glad I'm just two channel. Seb - yes, just about all the 40Hz stuff is still there. ------------------ deanG

Most subs have both the fixed high pass and the adjustable low pass. Now I don't have any experience with receivers, but I would imagine the receiver is simply a low pass crossover, which if used - would necessitate you flipping the low pass on your sub to off or inactive. You should use one or the other but not both. The fixed high pass at 80Hz is the most common because 80Hz is the THX standard. 6db/octave for the high pass is also fairly common. With a 6db/octave slope you will be -3db at 40Hz. Where you set your low pass at this point is totally subjective based on room boundary effects and personal preferance. I always seem to think 50Hz sounds the best. Now, another option is to not use the high pass at all, but simply run the RF7's full range for music - and only turn the sub on for HT. Just set the low pass on the sub as low as it will go. There will be a little overlap - but hey, it's movies and little extra rumble between 30 & 40 Hz ain't exactly something to get all worked up about. The reason I make this suggestion is because many people (including me) believe running the whole signal through a crossover before going to your amp is less than ideal. In other words - there is certainly going to be some signal degradation. Others argue that it's actually cleaner because since the woofer(s) of the mains are freed up from playing low bass - there is less IM and THD. What I have actually found is that with monitors, using the high pass sounds better than not using it - but with full range speakers, it sounds better not using the high pass. If you plan on listening to alot of multi-channel music - you will probably be better off using it. ------------------ deanG

I try to keep my speakers out of the rain ------------------ deanG

I ended up having to down size a little and went from two systems to one. My wife is home schooling the kids and we had to make more room for 'stuff'. So I sold some stuff, upgraded to the RF7's and moved everything upstairs. When I get home from work, Temple, my 18 month old daughter - grabs me by my finger and pulls me around the dining room table and starts pointing up the stairs. "uh", "uh", she says - which I assume means 'up'. She now gets upstairs and knows which buttons on the CD player starts the music. She recently figured out how to skip tracks. Her favorite CD is Tears for Fears. There is simply no greater pleasure for me than watching her sway back and forth to the music. It's like watching a living music box. ------------------ deanG

It's probably true that with the right front end gear and big enough room - I could more than live with a set of Khorns or LaScalas. When I heard the Khorns they were hooked up to some Crown stuff. I did hear the KLF20's once hooked up to some nice Parasound stuff but wasn't impressed. I would just like to say that the majority of people inhabiting this site are the ultimate in class. I know I have a tendency to get anal from time to time and everyone here just puts up with me and responds with class post after class post. Klipsch is unique. The Klipsch community is unique. I am humbled and so I must repent in dust and ashes. Long live Heritage! Long live Reference! ------------------ deanG

The LaScalas win what every time? The shouting contest? I've heard Khorns many times. During the 70's I heard them often. We always preferred the Dahlquist DQ10's. And then the Magnepans. If I want my system to sound like a P.A. system I will buy Heritage. ------------------ deanG

anodize Pronunciation: (an'u-dIz"), v.t., -dized, -dizing. Chem. to coat a metal, esp. magnesium or aluminum, with a protective film by chemical or electrolytic means. Also, esp. Brit.,an'odise". The firearms industry has been making use of this technology for about a decade or so - but it's just now being implemented in other ways. If you would like to know more about this 'old' technology you can read about it here: http://www.robarguns.com/finishes.asp At any rate, it's certainly newer than paper. Your comment about audiophiles loving Heritage is completely ridiculous. Most audiophiles HATE horns. ------------------ deanG

Actually, the RP5 is part of the Reference line. It's basically an RB5 on top with a built in KSW-12 in each speaker. If you don't overdrive the built in subs they probably sound very good. They originally listed for $2000. Lot's speaker for $400 a piece. ------------------ deanG

It's really amazing how we all hear so differently. I mean, exponential horns with plastic diaphrams sound much brighter to me than the Reference titanium drivers. It really fries me out when someone says Reference sounds 'bright'. I'm glad Heritage earbleeders brought me the Reference screechboxes. I have to concede the fact that without them, I would never have been able to have such screeching good sound! This is really kind of funny. Each half of the Klipsch family thinks the other half is whacked. Hey! We're a real family!! Mike - what is so scary about the 2 10's in the RF7?Very light, very stiff - very good. Also, though they are copper colored - they are not copper. "Cerametallic is a specially treated aluminum that has been anodized, or electro-chemically transformed into ceramic on both outer surfaces." Ed, thanks for being cool about my rant ------------------ deanG

It sucks when I miss my meds Stu pidass - lighter yet stiffer materials, built at tighter tolerances (consistently) constitutes 'new technologies'. Say what you will - but the Reference drivers kick ***. Clear, open, and fast, yet warm and liquid. Edwarde - it's you Heritage bigots that give us Reference bigots the hair trigger. Should we just lay down every time one of you starts slamming Reference. Something to think about: You should thank God for Reference - because it is the sales of Reference which will allow Klipsch to resurrect your beloved earbleeders ------------------ deanG