RFK

I have owned and listened to many subwoofers and my favorite is still my KSW-15. At only 45 pounds and over 800 watts of dynamic power it is pound for pound and pricewise the baddest subwoofer ever created in it's class. I recently listened to my friends new SVS sub that weighs almost 200 pounds and cost over $2000 and it definately had more low end and low-end rumble then my KSW-15 but it was not any more fun. The KSW-15 although not able to match the SVS in subsonic rumble did have more high frequency slam-something that my friend brought to my attention in the beach-landing scene in Private Ryan when the scene starts with the roar of the waves hitting the boats, I really like the SVS fo it's rumble capability but if I am listening to music I much prefer my KSW-15 or RSW-15 or even my RW-12 for that matter. My friend with the SVS loved it's movie performance but said he did not like it as well for music as other subs he has owned. For best overall music and low frequency rumble effect I prefer the sound of the 18 inch Velodyne sub over SVS for it's versatility in music and movie performance. Finally getting back to price, performance, music and movie listening the KSW-15 is and always will be a classic and definately a favorite of mine.

I know the value of Cornwalls I just wouldn't pay for damaged ones. I own KP-301's and KP-301II's just 2 of the many pairs of Klipsch I own that are considered professional versions of the Cornwall and Chorus.

This guy has $349.00 in bids on his trashed Cornwalls and his reserve is not met?!!! I would not take these speakers if they were given to me! The Wizard-of-Oz was the high bidder the last time I looked-too many poppies in his tea I think!

There is a saying that I've heard from many friends who are salesman who regretfully sell Bose to clients on occasion, "No Highs, No Lows-Must Be Bose!"

I think the guy meant that it would be excellent if they sold cosmetics for his Cornwalls.

JBlake377-give me the name of your dealer-new Heresy II's for $850 is a steal. Our local Ultimate Electronics (now bankrupt) charged $1100 + tax for Heresy II's and they were only a special order item! At that price I'd buy a whole Heresy II surround system!

I think filmboydoug hit the nail on the head. If there is any announcement upcoming on the Heritage line it will be an announcement of phase-out of the entire Heritage line, maybe all at once or one model at a time but a phase-out nonetheless. The new Klipsch Boys do not hold the Heritage models dear as Paul did. By the way thier speaker designs are going I think they would like to bury the Heritage line all together as soon as they can.

At the 2004 CES show Klipsch shows a 2-way prototype for its upcoming Premiere Series. Months later a 3-way computer representation of the "upcoming" Premiere Series is shown on Klipsch's website. Klipsch then pulled the photos of the Premiere rendition off its website months ago and has mentioned nothing since. Problems with these speakers perhaps? The new bowed cabinets falling apart? Why doesn't Klipsch build the speakers people really want like the Chorus, Cornwall and time-tested excellent models instead of these less and less desirable designs of theirs?

It is sad to see the computer rendition Klipsch had of the coming Reference Premiere Series. The rendition showed a tweeter horn below the midrange horn and woofers that emulate other high-end brand speakers. It can be argued that having the tweeter in the middle is a good thing sonically but that is not what I am talking about. Every series that Klipsch has introduced after the Legend Series is becoming less and less "Klipschlike". It seems Klipsch is becoming a follower of other speaker companies philosophies instead of sticking to their traditions. Paul Klipsch said "We live in the midrange". The elimination of the midrange horn on all Klipsch speakers except the Heritage Series and supposedly the new Premiere Series (Even Though the New Premiere Rendition Looked Like A Kef/Klipsch-hybrid) with its centered tweeter tells the story of Paul Klipsch fading from the Klipsch Company's philosophy. I am not saying that Klipsch makes bad speakers now, I am saying they are definately losing their "Klipschness". I am not going to argue with anyone for this is my opinion. Watch Klipsch yank this observation off the message board-if that happens it shows they are uncomfortable with this observation.

I own many Heritage and Professional Klipsch models including KP-201's, KP-250's, KI-362's(which incidentally caused me to sell my 1994 LaScalla's) due to the KI-362's massive midrange horn lense coupled to a 1.5 inch titanium driver and it's 1 inch titanium tweeter and 4 pairs of Heresy II's, 1 pair of original Chorus and last but not least 4-pairs of RF-7's and I love the RF-7's every bit as much as my Heritage models-they are very hard to beat for the price-I actually think Klipsch underpriced the RF-7. The RF-7 could chew up and spit out my old KLF-30's!

In summary Tom 2way or 3way speakers are a personal preference to argue that one is better than the other is an excersize in futility. Since the truly perfect speaker would be a one way (because in nature sound does not eminate from tweeters, mids and woofers-it is a combination of frequencies eminating from a source-mixed together perfectly as only nature can produce) a one way speaker would be the ideal both speaking in terms of physics and in terms of logic. Since it is not possible for a single horn or woofer to by itself produce a pleasing 20-20khz presentation we have 2 or 3 or more way speakers with crossovers to produce pleasing sound. Nothing COULD image better than a sound eminating from a single source as apposed to a divided combination of frequencies. Even electrostatic speakers have limitations in presenting 20-20khz in a so-called single driver configuration. If technologically you could produce a single horned speaker that flawlessly presented a 20-20khz performance, then you would have a next to perfect loudspeaker. This is not hard to understand when simple common sense is utilized.

The point I was making sfogg was that to argue that 2-way or 3-way horn speakers are not true horn speakers is to argue that a true horn speaker does not exist using that logic.

Also Tom arguing that these 2 way speakers are not true horn speakers does not hold a drop of water either. Paul Klipsch was a huge believer in 2-way speakers-example the original 2-way Klipschorn he personally built and the last product he worked on the 2-way Jubilee. Also take a look at the "Totally horn loaded" 3-way Klipschorn. What is the driver that produces the bass frequencies into the Klipschorn's folded horn?-A 15 inch paper-coned woofer!

Tom the Ceremetalic woofers dent and are more expensive to produce than carbon graphite-also titanium for the tweets is more expensive than phenolic diaphrams so the argument that Klipsch went from the Legend 3-way to the Reference 2-way to save money does not hold water-it is all about performance. With a more delicate material like Ceremetalic is is more problematic in denting etc than carbon graphite woofers-to save money Klipsch would decide to go with the cheaper carbon graphite that is alot less likely to be damaged in production. Why did Klipsch use Ceremetallic-because it is a more transparent sounding higher performance woofer material-not because there is some kind of conspiracy to cheapen their product.

I know that a one way driver would not work with today's technology. I was speaking just in theory relating to things I've read in scientific magazines about future speakers being for lack of better expression single "sound orbs"-Star Trek type stuff. But in the 1960's when the original Star trek was made alot of things that were impossible then are now reality. Even the transporter. Believe it or not one of my brainy doctor friends told me of a company that has actually teleported one molecule from one pod to another-the transporter from Star Trek! Maybe 20 years from now instead of a molecule it might be a human-beam me up Scotty will then be reality!

That is true. They definately have yet to invent a single driver that could properly produce a 20-20khz bandwidth.

I know what you mean as far as rated power. I agree that specs can be misleading as an example in a Twin Cities Ultimate Electronics store a friend of mine and me tested an old LaScalla on a rather inexpensive 200 watt per channel amp-(I think it was an Adcom) we redlined the amp and it was clipping madly into the LaScala and the LaScala could not be destroyed. I am sure there are many speakers with higher rated power handling than the LaScala that would have almost instantly blown.

Between 3 way or 2 way it really comes down to personal preference. If we are talking the laws of physics then the truly perfect speaker would be a one-way speaker with a driver that could produce the lowest lows all the way up to the highest highs. In physics the sound of an explosion is a bunch of frequencies blended seamlessly into one sound-thus the best and most realistic way to reproduce the sound would be for a driver to produce all frequencies. An explosion or any other sound for that matter has no mid range driver, a tweeter or a bass producer-the sound emits from one source. How could you point to the wind and say from what inch of space the whistle emits from?

I am not saying that some of your points are not valid but as far as power handling the 2-way Epic CF-4 handles 300 watts continuous with 1200 watt peaks-compare that to the 3-way KLF-30 that handles 200 watts continuous with 800 watt peaks or even the 2-way RF-7 for that matter that handles 250watt continuous and 1000 watt peaks. Many of Klipsch's 2-way designs handle more power than my 3-way LaScalla's or the Klipschorn.

I think a good way to illustrate this point is to take a look at what Klipsch has released regarding the new Reference Premiere speaker. The Reference Premiere is said to be a 3-way design consisting of a .75 inch super tweeter, a 4 inch fiberglass midrange driver for the horn and fiberglass woofers. Why a 3-way for this design? Fiberglass is not suseptable to denting like the Ceremetallic cones are and with the new-style molded front baffle plate you would have to pull off the whole front of the speaker to replace a woofer. Thus Klipsch has made a stronger, less transparent woofer that is supposedly 10inches wide that because of its make up would require mid-range support because the 10 inch fiberglass woofer would not sound as detailed under 2200hz for lower midrange frequencies as the Ceremetalic does-enter the 4-inch fiberglass midrange driver. The RF-7 has a huge magnet for a 1.75 inch tweeter that I bet will equal the new Premiere's tweet and mid magnets combined. I think Klipsch went with the fiberglass woofers because of warrenty issues that would result from having the Ceremetalic less accessible for replacement due to the molded front baffle and that some people think the Ceremetallic sound is too bright/harsh. You may disagree but I think this is a compelling argument or observation depending on how you look at it.

I know what you are saying Tom but according to Steve Phillips the ceremetallic woofers allow for a higher crossover due to their transparency and excellent ability to produce lower midrange frequencies. You have to admit ceremetalic woofers are able to do things because of their lightness and rigidity that paper coned or even carbon graphite woofers cannot-I'll even add fiberglass woofers as being less transparent than Ceremetallic.

A good example of what I've observed in listening to my RF-7's and my LaScalla's is with my RF-7s the sound seems to blend and project from the entire face of the speaker and with the LaScalla's I notice more of a separation-in other words I am more aware of a separate sound coming from the tweeter and midrange etc. A good example would be the 2-way Epic Series that Klipsch produced with the patented "Controlled Focus Technology"-the imaging was better than my LaScallas but the sound was less lifelike in the higher frequencies. In the 2-way RF-7 design Klipsch was able to brighten the sound dramatically with a titanium tweeter vs. the Epic's aluminum tweeter and make the bass tighter with the Ceremetalic woofers vs. the Epic's carbon graphite woofers. I think that is why Klipsch has been producing 2-way instead of 3 recently with the exclusion of the Heritage Series and the new Reference Premiere Series that is supposed to be a 3-way design. The Reference Premiere Series will have a .75 inch "supertweeter" and a 4 inch fiberglass midrange horn driver. I believe this new design will prove to be a little less bright sounding than the RF-7 because of the Refernce Premiere using fiberglass woofers rather than Ceremetallic and a .75 inch tweeter instead of a 1.75 inch titanium tweeter-less "metally sounding" than the RF-7-I happen to like the metal sound however.

Paul Klipsch originally designed the K-Horn as a 2-way speaker. If you take a look at the K-horn Paul Klipsch is standing by on the Klipsch Website it is a 2-way model. Steve Phillips and others at Klipsch have stated that Paul Klipsch originally designed the Klipschorn as a 2-way speaker and fealt that the truest sound was achieved from a 2-way speaker (better imaging etc.). Shortly before Paul Klipsch died Klipsch was going to release a Special Edition 2-way K-horn and apparently they got rerouted on other product when Paul died. On this forum you constantly hear that a 2-way speaker is asking too much of one horn to reproduce too many frequencies-NOT TRUE. I own many Heritage speakers, Legend Speakers and Reference Series speakers and I can tell you that although different 3 way is not superior to 2 way or visa-versa. Both designs have their own sound and both designs are great! A K-horn sounds great and so does an RF-7-they sound different yes but still great! Next time somebody on the forum says 2-way is not "True Klipsch" you can correct them because Paul Klipsch had high regard for 2-way AND 3-way design!

I am tired of the RF-7 and RF-3 grills getting bashed all the time for being "cheap" or of low quality and also "plastic feet" as being cheap and low quality. Anybody ever flown on a jetliner and looked around at all the plastic parts that make it up? I admit the Achilles' Heel of the RF-7 and like grills are the plastic posts that push into the receptors on the front of the speaker but even this is not a problem if people would not unevenly tear the grills off instead of evenly pulling them forward. The RF-7 grills have stronger, thicker mesh than the RB-75 (which I own) and are much stronger than KLF-30's or the Heritage model grills (which I also own many pairs)-example the RF-7 has thick plastic ribbing covering the woofers whereas the Heritage and others have nothing but speaker cloth or thatched material covering the drivers. The RF-7 grill could take quite a frontal assault before something could penetrate through to the drivers. Short of having a metal grill like some of the Klipsch Professional models the RF-7's and 5's have some of the best quality grills of ANY speaker brand. I am sure somebody will argue with this statement but I stand by this assertion.

I'm sure they'll release another edition with outtakes or the making of stuff but this version is released in DTS so grab it now. I do not think a version with outtakes could do anything but ruin the effect of the movie anyway.