Coytee

Thanks Pete.

Perhaps Klipsch has been infiltrated by a Bose spy? [:$]

Between Audiogon & Ebay, there are several of the above amps. I might get one or two. Any suggestions on which might work best with Khorns? I love the looks of the 2102 and am kind of reserved on the looks of the 275 (don't like the side mount wires) What (if anything) might the 275 have over the 2102? (besides cheaper) Would the 30's kick my SE-OTL's out of a job???

*, if you're going to be building a room from scratch then I highly highly recommend that you build a room with non-parallel surfaces* You saw where I was going. Wife happens to like higher ceilings (current house has 9') so it wouldn't be a stretch to use 9' as a starting point and if other factors allow ($$) investigate 10 or perhaps 12 max. Once that hurdle is hammered out in principle, then the splaying of the walls & ceiling would be my next questions. I might put it this way (if Artoo is still reading and as I understand, is an architect?), if you were going to design a room from scratch for a 7.1 Khorn (or mix of heritage) system, using 9' or up to 12' max ceilings, how would you design YOUR dream room from scratch? I could easily see this room being connected to the house by a hallway and otherwise being disconnected on 4 sides. Since the wife & I are at discussion stage only, it's easy to ask for the moon so that when I have to 'settle' on what's acceptable to HER, I might still be within specs. [6]

In college (late 70's early 80's) I had an Oldsmobile 442 convertible. I had my LaScalas which fit PERFECTLY in the back seat with the top down. The other goodies fit in my trunk. I put on several parties at frat houses, wedding parties, socials... Had them mated with 120 wpc and also had a dbx "boom box" (the original one) in the tape loop along with their 3bx and an eq. I charged $20/hour and also charged for setup and teardown time. They always paid (for the setup/teardown) and I always was asked to return. LaScalas all the way babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Erik, aren't you the one that built Daddy Dee's SE-OTL's ?? (that are now in my posession).

ahhhhhh, so YOU"RE the one that snookered the amp... (j/k) I was bucking for the other but a father can't always relinguish his only child...[:'(] I got the BX-3 and one of the meters was a bit buggy so I dropped it off over at DeWicks. A week later & a whopping $30, the meter was fixed. I think he went through it and as best he could and all was working as it was supposed to. so I can only presume that my noise issue... well, has been explained (to be from the pre).

* If you're working with an 8 ft ceiling, that would be your 1* THAT was the secret ingredient I was missing, thanks!!

This IS the BX3. I don't think it has direct vs potted (?) inputs. It DOES have two sets but I think the second set is for the rear channels. I'll have to look at that to be 100%. Seems you can bridge this monster if you want (heh heh heh). [6]

I copied this from Artoo who posted it back in 2003 or so. (hope that's acceptable) "There is no such thing as an absolute optimum room size for the Klipschorn. Obviously, the larger the room, the fewer acoustical problems you will have, especially at lower frequencies. More important than room size, are the rooms proportions. As mentioned above, there is a mathematical ratio commonly called the Golden Mean. Also known as the Golden Section or Fibonacci Sequence. As applied to room acoustics, it can predict the Eigenton distribution of a room (the rooms modes where resonant frequencies will occur, and/or overlap). The smaller the room, the more modal problems occur, primarily in the lower frequencies. Also the smaller the room gets, the more (higher) frequencies are affected. The Golden Mean ratios for proper room proportions is: 1:1.26:1.59 (1 to 1.3 to 1.6) (height to width to length). There are a wide range of ratios that are suitable. And certainly good sounding rooms can be found outside of these proportions. Obviously the worst case condition would be cubical where all 3 room dimensions are the same as that of a particular wavelength of sound, causing a substantial room resonance at that frequency. A range from 1 to 1.26 to 1.59, to 1 to 1.6 to 2.5 can be considered good. The old studio 116 at Klipsch in Hope, AK. was 10x16x25, which falls outside of the ideal ratio but was still considered good. Just as important (if not more) are the rooms acoustics. It will do you little good to get the rooms proportions ideal, and then ignore proper BROADBAND diffusion & absorption, and reverberation time relative to frequency. See arttos klipschorn room in the architectural topic area for a more in depth description of construction methods & acoustic techniques." Ok, can someone put this into a bit of english? If I draw a room that has the front wall 10 feet wide, then is the depth 10x1.26 to 1.59 multiplied or is it 10x1.6 to 2.5 and how do you factor in the ceiling height? I'd like to make a spreadsheet so I can do some room figuring and need to understand the ratios and exactly what is multiplied by what to get what. ??

BTW Chris, My dad lived on HH since about 1974 and about 10 years ago, finally moved off the island to Bluffton. I'd venture to guess you two probably know more than one common person (although I probably woudn't know them)

*If he does have the opportunity to build a house, just a little thought to room dimensions can go a long way* That was the essence of my thinking. If there is a (never achievable) "perfect" goal, then in my view, one can target doable aspects of that goal and try to come up with their own compromises given their constraints, be them financial or spatial (or WAF)

This is scaring me... I think I followed most of that! Thanks for the guidance.

I guess I'm becoming spoiled with that SE-OTL. I can crank the volume of Peach to 100% with both gain knobs at 100% and have zero to hardly any hiss noticable. If I turn the gain knobs on the dbx back to say 50%, the obnoxious hiss is gone yes, but it's still there (relative to the OTL which is FAR more quiet). I guess I'm just trying to have a 5.0 litre engine do some of the same milage specs as a 2.3 litre? Could it be that they are simply such divergent animals that I'll never be able to get a high powered amp as quiet as that OTL? I admit when the walls are shaking it's not too noticable [6]

**Different input sensitivity/gains. The SE-OTL is a low gain amplifier... residual noise from your pre-amp is amplified less then it is with the DBX. When you turn down the input controls on the DBX you are attenuating everything fed to it from the pre-amp... which includes the noise. ** Ok, so while I understand the logic of your conclusion, I don't understand why amp "A" verses "B" is a high or low gain amp. Just call me ignorant. If we've now established that reality, then how can I use that knowledge in my quest to find a high powered amp (SS or tube)? What specs might I want to seek out, presuming that is spec-able. (spec-able?) lol

Something was brought up in the Balanced thread that I didn't think of. I have a high powered amp along with my SE-OTL. I'm using a Peach. Was talking about the noise at idle that the dbx amp has when it's gain controls are turned ALL the way up. If I turn them down to 1/2 or 3/4 volume, the noise subsides GREATLY but is still more noticable than with the OTL amp. Someone said to disconnect the Peach even though they thought/knew it would be a quiet amp. Well, I did do that. I was amazed at how much LESS noise there was with the amps controls set at full. Soooooooooo, exactly what does this tell us? This really confuses me because the OTL amps have NO gain control, so it would seem to me they're at full throttle all the time. There are zero watts being used (on either amp) because the volume is down or because I switched to a dead source. If the Peach is so quiet, (as it is on the OTL's) then why do I hear so much noise when the dbx amp is on? I might try to be clear that the noise is more like just simple hiss and when the volume starts to go up, it becomes QUITE un-noticible but in between songs or cd changes... "sssssssssssssssssssss" If the Peach is in part responsible for this, can any tube swaps help? If the Peach is 100% "innocent" then why does the noise greatly subside when it's unplugged? I only had about 60 seconds for my trial before I had to do something so I'm going to try to be a bit more methodical tonight when I get home. If someone has helpful hints on what to do/not do so we can be logical about it, I'd appreciate any thoughts. Couple questions: If the noise abates some with the Peach disconnected, should the same noise abate if I have the peach turned OFF but still connected? If noise abates with Peach disconnected, should same nose abate if I have the Peach connected, turned on, but different source (Aux 3 with NOTHING connected to it) Any other ways to connect/disconnect these things to clarify issue? Oh, I might add, I noticed some sound bleed through yesterday with the volumn turned DOWN, the left speaker still had some music playing through it. I found that odd since it's never done that before. Along with that, I noticed a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY slight but perceptible "ting" sound through the speakers when I was switching the Peach controls. As I was not paying too much attention, I don't recall if it was the tape in/out switch (my first guess), or perhaps the hi/low z switch. Almost like a very microscopically microphonic tube being gently tapped by something when I turned the switch. Yes, now that I reflect, I DO think it was using the tape loop switch. Ahh, how the plot thickens.

**support both RCA and Balanced Inputs** I read today that the Transcendent "Beast" can be had with balanced inputs. What I read was you can have balanced input, RCA input that bypass an internal transformer, or, RCA inputs that go THROUGH the (balanced I presume) internal transformer. I guess that's covering all bases?

-it would agrivate the breathing problem- I recently had a (bad) reaction to a wasp sting & my airways swelled about 1/2 way shut. Emergency room trip and lots of drugs later, I was ok. I can attest to the fact that breathing is a pretty nifty feature of the human body. My wife, a (former) heavy smoker for nearly 30 years woke up one night with "breathing issues" (no idea what it was). Bottom line, with the help of the nicotine gum, she quit smoking cigarettes the very NEXT day and has never had one since then. That's been perhaps 7 years ago and she's suffered with marrying me AND us building the house from scratch while NOT smoking!! I'm very proud of her, and to clarify, when I say build house, I mean we had shell built for us and we've done everything since then. Installed flooring, tile, appliances, build closets... painted... the whole kit & kaboodle. !!

*Anyway....hopefully Coytee has his answer somewhere in all this.* Not REALLY if you want me to be honest. Where I am with all this is, if I get an amp that has balanced inputs, I'll post it here & see what's up, or if it's one that comes from my local Statement Audio, (Terry DeWick), I'll simply ask him for direction...or (best case scenario), if he has ability to make/provide me with what I need and if not, pick it out precisely so all I have to do is pay for it and plug & play.

Moon, I'm not in medical field nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn within the last 2 years... That said For, geez, 30 years my mother has had chronic headaches. She's a nurse and worked in the operating room, then transferred to home healthcare. Always presumed it was just the stress of the job (and being a single mom with 3 kids) Couple years ago she was complaining to Dr. about the chronic headaches (she also had a cebrial anyrusim (sp) when she was young, so she feared it was back). Long story short, brain scan came up negative, but on a bit of luck, the guy saw something off to the side as the picture had included part of her upper throat. End result, they took another xray of her throat and found she had a (forget the name) tumor that was benign BUT was wrapped around her salivary glands. They took the tumor out, and I don't think she's had a SINGLE headache since then, after 30 years of almost daily headaches. [] The bad news, because of something about the operation, she ended up with part of her salivary glands secreting saliva on the underside of her jaw so when she's eating & salivating, it's coming out from under her jawbone [:$] There's a technical name for that but for her, it's an easy tradeoff to lose the heaches. Point being, it's probably cafeen related but don't rule out anything medical even though it might sound a bit off the wall. When she now eats, she just discretely takes a napkin to her mouth and then takes it by the weeping area, which is small.

We're in the VERY preliminary stages. I see it going two directions. We live in middle of "family compound". My 85 year old Father in law owns 250 acres on the lake that is being salivated over by some developers. We currently have our (deeded) house & land 'inside' this 250 acres. Direction A: He sells out & she inherits a boatload of cash and will WANT to move away because of all the new neighbors after it gets developed. Direction B: He does not sell out & she ends up with some land at which point, I'll point her to the very top of the hill (tallest around) and try to get her to understand the great view we'll have up/down the lake. Nice thing about Direction B is we could build the house while living in current house which would only be 1,000 feet away & down the hill. Furthermore, we could then perhaps rent out our current house & her fathers house while still being local to keep an eye on everything. My guess is B is what will happen but they (the family) will have to sell the farm to cover inheritence taxes [:@] and we'll move on anyway.

I know the power rating isn't equal (75 vs 165) With that said, anyone have any inkling how a 165 watt OTL might sound compared to a 100 watt McIntosh? (we can use the 2102) I'm still interested in getting a higher powered amp other than the one I'm currently using. I was going to contemplate solid state, and still might (MC-352) I must say I love the VERY sweet sound of the SE-OTL's the Transcendent's put out when bridged. I must also say I love the renewed life injected into the Khorns when they're hooked up to some fire breathing power. I DON'T like however, all the noise/hiss I get when at idle when using the ss amp I've got. So I've opened my mind up to higher powered tubes (just missed an MC-275 on ebay by $40). When I thought of that amp, the OTL came back to my mind. Sadly, it's not very easy to audition something like this stuff and I am hesitant on shelling out over $3K for a "trial" without some kind of idea of what I'm getting myself into.

Wife & I briefly talked other day about building again. I told her if we ever did it again, we would START with the HT room and build it to the dimensions that might be considered as ideal as we could come up with. We would then build around that room so we could try to isolate some of the sound transmissions simply by the layout of the house (ie, not have our bedroom on other side of wall, but perhaps the guest bedroom for the inlaws [6].) Ok, so I was kidding about the inlaws, but only a little. So, if you had a piece of paper in front of you and your end desire was a HT room with Khorns all the way around (or perhaps also using LaScalas since I already have a pair), how would you do it? Would you plan for 5.1, 7.1, 35.13? (where do you stop lol) Once above is decided, my first preference would be Khorns if/when as appropriate, then if needed, use my 2 LaScalas (but they'd have to be buried into a wall opening) Thoughts/diagrams? Has this been discussed already? (I've not found it if so) I'm not talking about REDOING a room, I'm talking about building a house from scratch and instead of making this room as an afterthought, making it the primary thought & designing around it. The house would probably be single level and be as wheelchair friendly as we could make it.

I belive my appropriate comment here is "Woot Woot"? (what IS a woot?) But, indeed, GO Colts! And yes (speaking for the Bengals only), their run defense ...well... let us just say that it's lacking [:$] Add Peyton's throwing game into that...

One would like to think that if you scored 37 points in a game you would win. Darn that Peyton anyways! At least the Steelers lost eh? [6]