Coytee

I'm very sorry about your loss. We had 2 of our dogs murdered by some sob hunter last December 26. right in the middle of an access road...bam bam. One though chest (died pretty quick I think) and Daisy (my favorite) shot in the rear section and left to suffer. I am getting sad again just recalling this. so sensless, so inhuman. If I'd caught them, SOMEONE would have been in a bodybag, either him or me. couple months later.. Wife had a dream, "we got a puppy who's name is Otis" So today, we have Otis. 2 days after his arrival he was back at Vet with parvo. More heartache, but he pulled through. Grieve for your loved one, after while, get another and love again. (Pic of Otis attached)

Bought an extended plan on my new installation heating/air 5 years ago. Turned out to be good bet, they've been out every year fixing it. Long story short, we finally (they) figured out SLOW leak. they replaced the coils about 2 months ago. On aside, I use to work at Service Merchandise and the threat of fire was there too.. BUT... we also shared a bit in the sale. If we sold them, we'd get like 1% of the amount as commission (don't recall %, but it was just a token) Mix the token with threat of being fired, we didn't mind "showing them" to the customer. THAT said, (oh, I worked in the jewelry dept) if the cust DID buy it and something happened, we bent over backwards to fix it, even if it cost us more to "do it right" than "put it back to origional" (sometimes, a setting might need MORE than back to origional) That said again, if the cust did NOT do the warranty and something happened, we had it documented on their paperwork and wouldn't budge as far as price to fix it. "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later" now... the sneaky part... with the pressure over your head on your job... if a setting came back with a problem, I'd pull cust aside and say "it's going to cost say.. $100 to fix this, BUT, I can sell you that warranty you refused earlier for $50 and not only will that get it fixed, you'll have a year left" Of course, they bought it and my percentages went WAY up, because I got a point for a warranty but my item count didn't go up. Always a way around something huh?

Bought an extended plan on my new installation heating/air 5 years ago. Turned out to be good bet, they've been out every year fixing it. Long story short, we finally (they) figured out SLOW leak. they replaced the coils about 2 months ago. On aside, I use to work at Service Merchandise and the threat of fire was there too.. BUT... we also shared a bit in the sale. If we sold them, we'd get like 1% of the amount as commission (don't recall %, but it was just a token) Mix the token with threat of being fired, we didn't mind "showing them" to the customer. THAT said, (oh, I worked in the jewelry dept) if the cust DID buy it and something happened, we bent over backwards to fix it, even if it cost us more to "do it right" than "put it back to origional" (sometimes, a setting might need MORE than back to origional) That said again, if the cust did NOT do the warranty and something happened, we had it documented on their paperwork and wouldn't budge as far as price to fix it. "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later" now... the sneaky part... with the pressure over your head on your job... if a setting came back with a problem, I'd pull cust aside and say "it's going to cost say.. $100 to fix this, BUT, I can sell you that warranty you refused earlier for $50 and not only will that get it fixed, you'll have a year left" Of course, they bought it and my percentages went WAY up, because I got a point for a warranty but my item count didn't go up. Always a way around something huh?

I STILL remember the very first time I heard Klipsch. I pointed at "those" (K-horns) as one I wanted to hear roughly 1980 or so. He pushed a button and I was "impressed" with the sound. Note, I was not GREATLY impressed, but impressed none the less... Then I realized he hit the button for the Herasy's sitting in FRONT of the K-horns We've got an unfinished basement we're going to work on and the main room is supposed to end up my HT room. Consequently, I'm considering getting a pair of K-horns as my mains and use my LaScallas as rears. Anyway, I look on EBAY from time to time and think "I could afford those AND go get them, but not for the WAF factor"... (pardon redundancy) So, if I ever DO get a pair within driving distance (or shipping...) how DO you pack these monsters without factory boxes? My thinking would be to buy a pair in driving distance and use a pickup truck? Is that really workable? How do you lash them down/together ?? Anyone do this yet over any appreicable distance? If they're shipped commercially, what kind of luck is had with that avenue? Thanks for any thoughts

Re: in wall if you are facing one of the short walls, BEHIND that wall is the downward sloping ceiling of the stairwell as it decends down with the garage on the other side of the other wall. You know... this is where a lot of people put their water heater... I took the wall, cut a stud and made it into an opening that the LasCalla will fit between, thereby actually sitting UNDER the stairs and inside this closet. I intend to move the water heater to garage (other side of second wall) and add a studd to frame in for the OTHER speaker. I don't have a digital camera, I use the old fashioned way. I'm afraid by time I got done with a picture, we'd all be in wheelchairs

My basement is currently unfinished so I have a fairly clean slate to deal with (as long as wifey agrees) Anyway, the room is roughly 16 x 23 with 9' ceilings. Down one wall is a set if french doors that shouldn't be an issue. On one end of room, the stairwell comes down, so I might set my LaScallas INSIDE the wall, or under the stairwell with a covered opening hiding them. My mains would be Lascallas, my front effects and center channel (3 total) would be Academy's and my rear effects would be my old pair of Electro Voice Interface D. Now, I'm kind of itching on getting a pair of K-horns. If I get the K-horns, I'll have to totally flip flop the room which isn't any big deal.... HOWEVER, it brings me to my question If I put K-horns where they belong in the corner and leave the LaScallas under stairwell as my rears, will it be any "big deal" that the LaScallas are not elevated as I think the HT format suggests/requires? My current HT unit is a Yamaha (forget model, but it has no tuner) and it's setup for 7 speakers. I intend on keeping all of them, so I could also see using one LaScalla as a front center, the other one as rear center (if they use them yet??) and use my EV's as rear effects and 2 Academys as front effects (are they up to side speakers yet? sigh) Anyway, I have a clean slate, I'm just wondering about which to use and where to put them, as that will dictate which way the room is flip flopped. Thanks for any thoughts

hmm...he's parting them out... I wonder how much he'd want for the 4 bolts used to hold the woofer in....?? I thought I might upgrade my bolts with newer ones

---------------- On 8/7/2004 10:26:34 AM Piranha wrote: Did you see Carson Palmer? ---------------- Yep. I went to the morning practice session, when it was over, drove onto Cincy area to have lunch at my favorite pizza joint! Something I found interesting later that night, on my way south, when I stopped to watch the scrimmage, during some of the plays, Palmer was throwing the ball and maybe ran once/twice. When Kitna came in, I noticed him toss to his running back behind line of scrimmage. Perhaps it was a planned play but it just struck me as reason #145 why Palmer might be given a chance. I guess I'm just sensative having grown up with Anderson's bombs, Blakes rainbows...and to watch Kitna seem to throw more times than not on a (perceived) dump pass... sigh. Something else , during morning practice, I was standing there with crowd. Some players were warming up/standing literally 15 feet in front of us. One of these offensive numbered guys (87) was a MONSTER. I mean, I just looked at him and knew he was wearing pads, cause he didn't want ANY of my wrath!! About that time that I was wondering who this un-human chisleled stud was.. so was the guy next to me. He asked his buddy, turns out it was Kelley Washington. Lemme tell ya, he is one CHISLED and BIG dude. Started to watch him too... I'm no guru, but I'd bet a juicy steak dinner that Mr. Washington is going to be an awesome receiver (barring any injuries).

Sry on double post, suffering happy mouse syndrome

Drove to Ohio Friday so on way home, stopped by Georgetown to see the Bengals intersquad scrimmage. Camp is at Georgetown College (if I recall name right) Prior to festivities starting, I noticed the music playing and became curious. soooooooooo, I put the binocs over in the direction of the scoreboard and just imagine WHO'S stuff was pumping the stadium with sounds?? Klipsch! I have no idea of the model numbers as I was easily 70 yards away. It was obviouisly outdoor/industrial stuff. Each bass box seemed to be perhaps 1 1/2 feet by perhaps 2'. There were two of them side by side under the scoreboard. On TOP of the scoreboard, was three tweeters/squawkers or what ever. As I sat there, the clear thought went through me that the sound seemed to be like more of a (quality) transistor radio, than the "big sound" I'm accustomed to hearing with my LaScallas. I just presumed they bought too small of setup for the stadium. After all, it's a small school...budgetary constraints, perhaps lack of knowledge... Then... they turned them up

Lordy, did I create this post? Been interesting reading, although it has in part, digressed from the intent of my question. (I guess I asked it poorly, or the answer was above my head... "if it sounds good and you like it, dont' worry about it")

Sounds good to me, I'll accept the explanation

Although I realize it might not be answered easily, the reason I'm oddball enough to even ask is, I have a pair of LaScallas that I think we all/most know have a nice solid punch. I also have a pair of EV's that go (per spec sheet) to 28Hz @ 106db. I don't know what specs are right blah blah blah...but the real world feeling is, the LaScallas will punch you in the gut with their bass output, whereas, the EV's will literally shake the foundation. There is a substantial difference between the two. I was just wondering how easy it is to tell (the difference) when the specs (accurate or not) are closer than these two are.

I understand the relationship of having to double your power to get a noticable gain in loudness... BUT, how discernable is it (presuming all else equal) if you have two identical speakers side by side, one having 110db output with a -3db point at say 30Hz, and the other with 110db at 29Hz, 28Hz...or 20Hz? in other words, having a -3db point at say 45Hz, and the other one at 10Hz, would be substantially noticable. How sensative is the average person from 1Hz to another? How "off" can they be from one to another such that the average Joe, couldn't tell the difference?

John, you said "The K-400 has a cut-off frequency of 240 Hz, but a horn should not be used below about twice its cut-off frequency. This keeps the diaphragm from unloading and getting damaged from too much excursion." may I presume you meant to say 1/2 the cut off frequency, rather than twice? Seems to me "twice it's cut-off frequency" (using 240) would become 480 Hz. Seems if something shouldn't be used below "twice" it's cutoff frequency that is Higher than the cutoff... you'd not be able to use it? Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I think you just did what many people do and flip flop it mathematically. Ok, so I'm anal. I'm not trying to be rude, btw, I've been looking for "excuse" to say "hello" to you, as not only am I up the road from you near Knoxville, I TOO, am an Albright!! Richard D. Albright

damn, I thought "I" was the first one to see them

Different angle on same topic... If you take your K-horns, LaScallas, other... and put them into STORAGE for "X" days, months, years and then bring them out, do you need to REBREAK them in, or ought they be up to par immediately?

oops, sorry for the double post... told you I was new For penalty on double post, I'll immediately go listen to 20 looped repeats of "How deep is your love" by the Bee Gee's...

---------------- On 7/6/2004 9:59:27 AM DaddyDee wrote: Coytee, I'm not really a tech type and don't know the functions served by all your gear, but I sure am interested in how you hear the difference compared to a straight out amp to Lascala connection. When I was listening to LaScala's all the time, I came to think their sound was much improved with a sub to pick up where they rolled off on the low end. Does your setup help with some of that? Or wherever your hear the difference? If you'd share your take on that, it would be appreciated. ---------------- Gosh... at the risk of offending those who have the "audio ear" and receiving their sonic wrath for my wayward ways... First... (buffer to those who are the purists) When I hear some delicate sound system at the high end store playing whatever... it usually never sounds the same as what I might hear when at a REAL concert, with all the ambient noise and creshendo. That said, "for me" and "my ears" when my LaScallas are setup straight to the main output with ZERO input, they sound clear, clean and frankly... like tranisister radio lol (I LOVE my speakers, so I do NOT mean that in a disparinging way) Anyway, the 3bx is a range expander that with old tapes/Lps, was usefull in putting some sonic punch back into the program content. The "110" (sub harmonic synthesizer) takes the program material at (50 perhaps??) hz and reproduces it an octive LOWER and adds that lower octive back into the signal loop, thereby adding a "floor" of base. It has a bass knob and a sub bass knob so you can vary it a bit. The Audio control is nothing more fancy than a equalizer that has an analyzer so you can have a rough idea of the sound of the room...(upshot??? it has a fancy display and can look very cool) The 3bx is the main component in the tape loop, with the other two components inside the loop of the 3bx. (tape in/out of preamp goes to 3bx) The 3bx has a pre/post button where you can ALSO expand it's INTERNAL tape loop (where the other 2 reside) I do not do that. Ok... upshot of all of this? I think the LaScallas are rated to like 45 or 48 hz on the bottom end? The EV's are rated to something like "20,20,000" HOWEVER, their -3db point is 28 hz @ 106 db. Meaning, (and someone help me if I butcher this please) The EV's play at 28 hz, ALMOST as loud as the Klipsch do at 45 hz. So, adding the two together with the goodies in the tape loop? lol as far as I'm concerned, you have to be there to understand. Upshot is, the Klipsch will hit the "midbase" and pound you in the chest, whereas the EV's with their 28hz floor, will then shake the foundation. I might (read that as will) look into a sub down the road when our basement is done, and might look for one (like the SVS) that goes into the teens and use the sub for sub work, the EV's for "bass" work and the LaScallas for the PUNCH work.

---------------- On 7/6/2004 9:59:27 AM DaddyDee wrote: Coytee, I'm not really a tech type and don't know the functions served by all your gear, but I sure am interested in how you hear the difference compared to a straight out amp to Lascala connection. When I was listening to LaScala's all the time, I came to think their sound was much improved with a sub to pick up where they rolled off on the low end. Does your setup help with some of that? Or wherever your hear the difference? If you'd share your take on that, it would be appreciated. ---------------- Gosh... at the risk of offending those who have the "audio ear" and receiving their sonic wrath for my wayward ways... First... (buffer to those who are the purists) When I hear some delicate sound system at the high end store playing whatever... it usually never sounds the same as what I might hear when at a REAL concert, with all the ambient noise and creshendo. That said, "for me" and "my ears" when my LaScallas are setup straight to the main output with ZERO input, they sound clear, clean and frankly... like tranisister radio lol (I LOVE my speakers, so I do NOT mean that in a disparinging way) Anyway, the 3bx is a range expander that with old tapes/Lps, was usefull in putting some sonic punch back into the program content. The "110" (sub harmonic synthesizer) takes the program material at (50 perhaps??) hz and reproduces it an octive LOWER and adds that lower octive back into the signal loop, thereby adding a "floor" of base. It has a bass knob and a sub bass knob so you can vary it a bit. The Audio control is nothing more fancy than a equalizer that has an analyzer so you can have a rough idea of the sound of the room...(upshot??? it has a fancy display and can look very cool) The 3bx is the main component in the tape loop, with the other two components inside the loop of the 3bx. (tape in/out of preamp goes to 3bx) The 3bx has a pre/post button where you can ALSO expand it's INTERNAL tape loop (where the other 2 reside) I do not do that. Ok... upshot of all of this? I think the LaScallas are rated to like 45 or 48 hz on the bottom end? The EV's are rated to something like "20,20,000" HOWEVER, their -3db point is 28 hz @ 106 db. Meaning, (and someone help me if I butcher this please) The EV's play at 28 hz, ALMOST as loud as the Klipsch do at 45 hz. So, adding the two together with the goodies in the tape loop? lol as far as I'm concerned, you have to be there to understand. Upshot is, the Klipsch will hit the "midbase" and pound you in the chest, whereas the EV's with their 28hz floor, will then shake the foundation. I might (read that as will) look into a sub down the road when our basement is done, and might look for one (like the SVS) that goes into the teens and use the sub for sub work, the EV's for "bass" work and the LaScallas for the PUNCH work.

---------------- On 7/6/2004 1:25:03 AM djk wrote: "including my dbx subharmonic synthesizer " Unless you keep it down to a whisper, Death to LaScala woofers! Leave it in the box for the party. ---------------- Surely you jest?? (do you??) I've had this synthesizer hooked up inside my 3bx with this system for probably 23 of the 24 years I've owned it. (albiet not the last 5 years). Anyway, it's not only never shown any (obvious) death to the LaScalla woofer, it's added a very nice punch. ** I'm not trying to argue, I just dont understand the point given my real world experience. If you (or others) would care to expand on the concern, I'd love to hear the what's & Why's. Just for record... before my system (in it's entirety) went into hibernation 5 years ago, it was setup as the following 2 front mains, LaScallas 2 front "effects" 2 Academys 2 rear "effects" Electro Voice Interface D 1 front center Academy 1 Yamaha HT (forget number) 7 channel surround system (powering all EXCEPT for rear EV's) 1 Yamaha CR-2040 (120/channel) for my EV's Hooked inside tape loop (and here is where you purists are going to slam me) 1 Audio Control, real time spectrum analyzer/equalizer 1 dbx 3bx 1 dbx 110 (subharmonic synthesizer) Had this system all through college (played for number of frat parties for $$) and carry it forward to today. (the academy's & HT were more recent additions) Anyway, with all the abuse I put that through, the LaScallas never showed an inkling of "death" by all the pounding, so my "real world" experience is in direct conflict with your suggestion. Care to enumerate? Thanks

Hi Al & thanks. Indeed, you may be right. Got them both out & cleaned up. Hooked up a bit of Deep Purple to them (perhaps a bit more "boomy" content than the steel drums?) They DO seem to be ok thus far. Just a fyi, I LOOKED at the crossover & it's components and I could not see anything visually. (as implied by what I've heard on them leaking, though I dont know if that would really be visible). Anyway, me thinks I'm gonna hook it ALL back up, including my dbx subharmonic synthesizer and see if that brings them back to life as I'd remembered. maybe this will be a (the) catylist for my getting off my HINEY this winter and finishing the basement

hi guys/gals... I'm still pretty new here, so please pardon any deficiencies I might have in protocall. I have a pair of LAscallas that I bought new roughly 1979/1980. They've been disconnected & sitting unused in my unfinished basement (air conditioned) for the last 5 years while we built the house. This upcoming friday, my next door neighbor is having a retirement party... and another neighbor WAY down the road is planning on providing the music. His idea of providing the music is by bringing his car to the house, opening the trunk and cranking it up I volunteered my system for my neighbor, he gladly accepted. I've pulled the LaScallas out of the closet, dusted off & hooked up to my old Yamaha CR-2040 (120/channel) and they sounded fine, but kind of thin (weak on base). I removed the bottom to inspect the woofer KNOWING I'd have all kinds of surround rot and to my surprise, absolutely clean. All is intact. My "thin" base might have been my program source (steel drum band), I'm still in experiement stage. Because of this site, I've also unscrewed/retightened all the screws on one speaker (cant reach other one yet..hidden behind junk). Is it possible that I might have a worn out crossover? I looked at it and it has "AA" in red on the right side of it. If the crossover is worn out, is it easily replaced? Since party is this friday, I might opt to buy/replace, rather than rebuild/replace. I'd appreciate any thoughts. I'm going back down NOW, to keep tinkering with them. Regards

ok...by "matched" I was really meaning to say consecutive... (off to listen to 20 minutes of Tony Orlando & Dawn as my penalty)

ok...call me retentive, my wife does. Just have a meandering wonderment... people talk about having consecutive numbered speakers. does that in FACT mean they were "side by side" coming down the assembly line? Who's to say that the finished products dont go into "the inspection room" (mixed side by side) and then inspected & slapped with the sticker??? (be nice to me, I'm relatively new here)