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The amplifier RMS rating of a sub does not tell much about the actual ACOUSTIC OUTRUT. If fact too many Mickey Mouse sub advertise KILOWATT power amps and would be embarassed by a "100W" sub. Extreme example Danley Cine Monster VS any home sub, feed the Cine Monster "only" 100W and be prepared to feel like dumy being beaten to a pulp. It is all about how SENSITIVE, EFFICIENT you driver is in its cabinet. Most tiny seald subs have very poor sensitivity and need massive amps power to reach measly ACOUSTIC OUTPUT. And this with poor extension and little energy in the SHAKE zone! The RT12d is a fine average sub(output and extension) when compared to the heavyweights on the market. Filling a 18*16 space with one RT12d may be fine if you do not demand massive output AND your sub is set up correctly. Me to my taste I need an army of more capable modules in a space 14*10 ! That is just me...[]

Lets all shake hands and have group hug. []

YMA8888, Sells a "REFINISHED" errr read "PATCHED UP" sub! GREAT I may jump on the deal and get myself a sub that is NOT THAT GOOD,wait the DD18 was not that good! So what does this make of the "REFINISHED" and "PATCHED UP" low end Velo? []

Well lets call this my testroom because it is not even my HT, my HT room is "slightly" larger and a project that will take around a year or two to complete. Here is just about the most displacement any HT system in any room has...all in a 700cu ft space(room has an upper section of another 700cu ft). This is under half of the current displacement, and what you see a quarter of the amp capability. Since this is a Klipsch forum here...a few of my many Klipsch speakers I own...

The system has changed DRASTICALLY today, back sub wall added...two more PL380 and four iTech 8000 in place... Contour S5.4 in place of S3.4...Bryston amps replacing the ATI and Parasound. LOL Sick sick sick. I impressed ...myself ! Now this is a first. Massive bass with no limits. Ok yes...group ...Infected Mushroom album...Converting Vegeterians. Infected Mushroom is THE reference for electronic music IMO. They have released many albums and they are all great. Sound quality is very good and bass lines sometimes...outstanding! And no my old Quintets, are stashed with many other Klipsch speakers I own...in a closet...where I cannot say for sure. []

YMA8888, Relax just because we all do not use SVS does not mean we have cheap subs, I use a modest setup that no commercial sub or pair or quads can touch. http://www.youtube.com/user/bsod4u2 TC Sounds LMS-Ultra over the SVS Ultra all day any day.

Attention K-Mart shoppers the world famous DJ is here... ATTENTION!!!...ACHTUNG!!! []

Pretty much anything "owns" a KSW10 in extension and output around 30hz. The KSW10 is a..ahem...not too serious bass module(calling it a subwoofer is stretching things beyond stretched!). Good to know you like your new sub. The Emotiva subs like quite descent lower cost subs.

If the HGS18 cabinet fits in the trunk then go with the HGS18. The servo no longer in use, you still have a very descent sealed sub. In a car the cabin gain is HUGE in the lower spectrum. An 18 inch driver will not have to work hard to pound. Make sure you observe the driver cone as you test this setup. Bottoming out is not a great idea. A puny TangBand 8" sub does a descent job in a ported box,in a car. When using 12" up a sealed will be capable of plenty of output measured at the dash. Provided you use proper amplification.

I have purchased in the last months, the Image S2,S4 and now the X10. Great earphones ,very happy customer reporting here. Still havemy Custom 2 and Custom 3 and they work A1.

Front LEFT TC Sounds array...more pics to follow tomorrow... I will be getting Seaton Sound powered monitors (type of very large MTM) ,they sell for $3500 each, and are both about SQ and high output. The Danley should also very accurate and capable of extreme SPL(~4K apiece). Not I am SPL deprived with Dynaudio Confidence or Klipsch Palladium. [] I also have since a few months Genelec monitors,quite potent and razor accuracy.

I have yet to get a price,calling Danley ...Monday. [] I can guess ~5000-$7000 apiece. Still a bargain considering the ...OUTPUT that demolishes HT subs from any given company. Two co located subs we are talking 150dB! Forget a measly 126 or even 136dB... forget direct radiating designs. Giant tapped horns using giant drivers powered by gigantic power amps equals world beating output. My current array(finished tomorrow!) is capable of a close output. In other words, winodow shattering output. But costs much much more in drivers alone and ...power amps...whew I pourred over 80K in my sub array. I smash theaters in displacement and extension. Soon a clip on YouTube showing the system flexing its cones, then kiddies and fools will ask...we want to see Bass I hate You by Pooptronics and some hollering crap rap tune where the goofballs shout some BS and think they are grown ups! []

WHO ME? LOL Jay, I have six TC Sounds LMS Ultra/5400 18's and eight AudioPulse LMS Ultra(5400) 15's, in sealed cabinets. Powered all byQSC's PL380's and PLX2 amps. I also have an array of Exodus Maelstrom-X's and Tempest X2's. Plus Acoupower and co.... Lets just say I am not bass starved at the moment. My BIG plan is to buy two Danley CineMonster subs (each using what apears to be two 21inch B&C drivers). Each unit a giant 5 foot by 5 foot by nearly 2.5 foot cabinets. Sensitivity off the charts!109dB1W/1M sensitive,two unitsstacked...115dB(2W input!!!) Now factor Danley 145dB max output,per unit... we have staggering output. Capable of filling a huge space,for home use it is off the freaking charts.Amps ...I have two spare(for now) Crown iTech 6000 I can use with these. I like my Klipsch speakers no secret here(Reference series best,Palladium) , Danley and Seaton Sound will soon join the ranks of what I call my favorite efficient audio gear. And Dynaudio as well as Focal(JMLab) the so so efficient(lower sensitivity)speakers that sound great. Whew.... excuse this slight OT.

Jay, Where is the TC Sounds LMS sub you had ? [] A tapped horn is not a design a first or second time DIYer should undertake. Mastering the tapped horn design is way out of a novice realm, of there are plans to follow and TIME is on your side then a big GO.

My ego has nothing to do with Velodyne or an overly "reflective" room. I still like Velodyne HGS/DD series, very clean subs. The servo control does work,is proven and thes are SQ subs first. Not very high output but very high sound qualitya nd very low distortion. See my ego has nothing to do with the qualities/performance of any product. Velodyne has not improved on the design since many years(simple firmware updates to tweak the subs a bit). Proof they have a solid product. So yes those are very nice subs.

Just FYI ... The sub "kit" at PE in the link does not use a Dayton DVC 15". The Driver used on the TubaHT is a Dayton DVC 15".

Cornwalls...LOL Yes [:$] I was pulling the chain too much. [] These "massive" Cornwalls...Corner Wall...Cornwall. [:#]

Since you are asking me to be FACTUAL, I will. First you room looks as live as a cavern, due to all the exposed reflective surfaces! No unequal surfaces, at least treatment ! Your speakers are in corners,if these were K-Horns I would understand as they were designed by PWK to use corners for obvious reasons. []

Ego my ego ! All this for a "massive" plate amp in a Velo DD(double D ! holy COW!) , and all the 1250W RMS/3kW PEAK as claims Velo Dine. [:@] Speaking of dining ...The only massive things are Texans (they are massive) and tourists from Quebec going to Florida...also massive! Send them on a diet.

A FREE ROACH ! [] At no extra charge !! []

Flash news, an amp with a mere 1.25kW RMS/3KW PEAK rating is only average in the pro amp world.I have amps like the QSC PL380and Crown itech8000 rated at 8000W RMS. These require special 30AMP lines and apropriate twist receptacles. The iTech's runns on dedicated 40AMP lines and 240V. Now these are massive(power output wise). [] Also when plate amps are thrown in the mix try a JLAudio Gotham plate amp for size and OUTPUT. [] Switching (transformerless)plate amps are very common around the 1kW range. Nothing massive.

A full range system needs properly integrated capable subs. There is plenty going on down deep, taking this foundation out is ignoring an important frequency range,filtering out, castrating music/movies . You cannot get a proper HT experience with poor performance below 30Hz. I would go as far as to say a capable HT system should be capable of a minimum of 126dB @ 16Hz at listening position. Now how many systems can pass this test?

Olorin, Good advice. The classic setup seen in most rooms if far from ideal, understanding your room and...modes is the key for accurate bass.With two units used(placed) properly one can tame room modes enough to get reference quality bass. Laager, Nice subs,I had a HGS18 a few years back. SQ is always tops with these servo subs. The "massive" amp not that massive after you factor the "loss" the servo control brings and...it is a sealed sub with ~2" of peak to peak excursion.

RT10 and RT10d....not the same. RT10d uses two PR's VS the RT10 single PR. More output down deep, the RT10d and RT12d ...not a major gain or loss from one to the other.

Fine choices for the money are... ElementalDesigns and SVS, the ported subs offer more output per dollar than the sealed JL Audio,Velodyne or Paradigm.However there is a good deal better for your dollar would you be willing to go DIY(some woodworking experience,tools,time and place to build the sub...space to place the LARGE sub. If these are not on your list forget this option). For $2000 I brutalise any ED,SVS,HSU and co sub with brutal ease. I get two Maelstrom 21`s , two Behringer 4000 power amps a ElementalDesigns sub EQ. Build a ported or..even sealed cabinet and laugh at the commercial offerings. I outdisplace the competition by a serious margin. But that is just me in my drive to have the most displacement.