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I would not be surprised to see the f113 do very well versus the RT-12d when tested the exact same way,GP. Each manufacturing company will defend its products and try to give a black eye to the competition. Independent testing performed by Ilkka, who I can trust as a unbiased source. Now those who buy the f113 look at HSU's new sealed or Paradigm's Servo Signature 25 as options. When ported goes the SVS Ultra and eD's huge performers find new homes easy. The RT-12d is a very fine subs as long as you do not demand much output down deep(nature of a smaller ported sub that has to remain quite efficient),there is only so much mass you can add and the more mass you add,the less efficient it becomes.The lower the tune,the less output you get(while trying to maintain a linear response over the frequency the sub covers).

All compact(volume to driver size ratio) sealed subwoofers will exibit evident compression when pushed where the heavy boost (EQ,PEQ) is. In this case it is easy to see where JL "forced" the natural response to obtain a "flat" response up to where the driver reaches its limits. Again , up to 105dB measured outside you can add around ~10dB to the result inside(room gain).The wekling 10dB is more line 115dB,if you listen much louder than that yo8 are hearing impaired. Or a war veteran who was assigned to firing heavy shells for too long. []

I have heard a good few transmission line nearly full range speakers. The bass has no audible colorations(same could be said for well designed sealed and classic ported speakers),for sub apps the size could be problematic. Sealed is the best way to go IMO, two high displacement drivers with healthy BL in quite compact boxes and you are set. To see what is possible with sealed check the HTS sub test section.They tested the venerable TC LMS5400(LMSUltra) in a sealed cabinet. Remarkable performance rivaling and besting most ported subs.In these configurations the amp/driver will amount for most of the expense.As the driver(s) and amp(s) have to be quite capable.

In the low cost departament you have Behringer 2500, retails ~$400 and is a very solid amp...for the CS Ultra. Climbing up you have QSC's PLX2 lineup,great parts quality(for a pro amp) and very capable units. Remember a crossover box or better a PEQ like the one Elemental Designs sells would be a great add on(~$100).

Mark, Please do not push the JL , the issue with the RT-12d this owner has is an isolated one. I have five Klipsch subs using similar and identical drivers and have had ZERO problems.

Moisture would have little todo with an issue like this. As the glue bonds the alloy basket with a cone made of another "alloy",we do not have two materials that are known to soak up water(humidity). The glue used to bond sub bass drivers has to resist temperature changes,humidity changes and maintain the bond.They do not use School Glue here. I believe you have a lemon PR. As all my Klipsch subs from RSW's to RT's have had ZERO issues with detached sourrounds or any moving parts. And I have put them thru heavy heavy workouts. Over the years.

Heavy compression at 105dB...please tell me what you smoked,it is good stuff. The measurments were taken outdoors and at 105dB the compression is minimal. It is by 110dB you start to see(as the graph CLEARLY shows) "heavy" compression. I see some interpret graphs like John McCain interprets economy the "sunshine" way. Maybe Mr MadOff should be hired to read these graphs. []

OUTRAGEOUS! [] Must be so outrageous people are outraged! [8-|] You should become a stand up comic one day.You would beat Seinfeld, not even in question. So ,Jay said both Thilo and Wiggins are using hidden passages to move around the city. What is next ? We learn from Jay they worked for GM(General Mediocre)and assemble seatbelts that snap at 5 miles per hour !

DocWHO?, The f113 is a joke! You just made a good one. The distortion you speak of is very low at levels 99.9% of users listen to any material. You want to see the reference in low distortion sub bass,take a look at TC Sounds LMS-Ultra/5400 in sealed or ported(PR) configurations. They blow the little K subs out of the test field.Look at actual tests performed on the HTS forum by a very trusted memeber who relies on measuring not small talk. And tell me the R line from K can even begin to match the distortion,output and linearity. [8-|] Also the f113 that you consider a joke stands among the finest subs most that make the vast majority of K subs look like mass market gear. A joke,yes you are a good joker.

Jay, Your "arguments" have nothing to do with subwoofer driver design or performance. Just a cheap shot aimed to discredit those who set the standard for subwoofer driver performance. Lame

Trey, Of corse I am WRONG as your post implies. The compressed foam sourround has less deviation on extreme excursions than a rubber sourround,so says JL Audio engineers I asked.You claim the exact opposite! Interesting, I will make sure to ask driver engineers like Thilo (TC Sounds/Audio Pulse)and Wiggins(countless designs used in high performance subs) who are the most trusted people IMHO when it comes to high performance sub design.

Where was I ? Good question. Selling flour. Gambling and injecting myself with liquids that make believe the world economy is based on honesty and proper banking...done by bright people and not fraudulent scum. ULS-15 or PB13-Ultra? Output wise the Ultra,SQ wise both are damn close(outstanding SQ). Boils down to size you want,can live with.

This is comming from someone who has so many subs ...cannot move and has to use forklifts to access behind the subs to clean. [] [] [8-|] [:'(]

Is a JL f113 worth more than the RT-12d? YES it is. If you value maximum sound and built quality YES IT IS. Claiming the contrary is worthy of a good laugh. I have the whole Klipsch RSW and RT line of subs and the Fathom is a class above. For HT the Klipsch is a better value(output per $),for music the Fathom will dig deeper and goe toe to toe with the very finest subs using TC Sounds drivers(I have 14 subs using TC Sounds drivers now). Only the LMS-Ultra/5400 or Acoupower sealed subs do slightly better SW wise. []

Estimated time of completion ...ERROR, I tried to compute but got blue screens of death! [] After the 800lbs cabinets are filled with 240lbs of TC Sounds and connected to the iTech8000 amps. When the PLAY button ....BOUM.....huge earthquake and FOX news will be on location to report. No more roof to cover the house!!!

High pass filters are a MUST with vented subwoofers(to roll off signal below tune). As over excursion below tune is not uncomon. It does not take a huge amp to damage a sub driver when the driver hits mechanical limits hard or at repetition. To understand do some modeling and you will see what happens below tune,how the moving assembly unloads with a few watts. With sealed a high pass filter is not needed. In fact I do not use high pass filters with my sealed subs. The point where I reach mechanical limits of the drivers is where you are in the single digits and aproaching amp max output. A non issue in the real world. I would select the Rythmik DS1500 as the driver/amp are matched no perfection. The SDX15 deserves much more than the XTi1000,the XTi4000 et the elast or...better QSC PLX2 3402.Plus an outboard crossover(for PEQ,phase and high as well as low pass filtering).

DrWHO, Well you see I have four TC LMS-Ultra 15's ,each in its own box,two in front(left and right) and two behind the seating (one left and one right). Standing waves are not the issue in my setup. The wall O subs is a gimmick that impresses with sheer output. The four LMS-Ultra are for quality first. I would use the aproach linked if I had time. I wish,now too busy at work(a good thing in these economic times).

DrWHO, Stop acting like the little Von Braun(yes I know he was a rocket scientist,the finest rocket scientist america ever had. Without Von Braun you would be shooting for more failed launches and missed the moon by decades) of audio and total purist,this little game makes me laugh. DO not take me for Joe Blow who owns some average gear in an average room and has an average setup know how. B0$e owner, where did you fish that BS? I own Dynaudio speakers not B0$e,these make the brand you love sound less great.Subs I own TC Sound's best the LMS-Ultra(powered by Crown's iTech and QSC's PowerLight),JL,Acoupower and the finest subs made. Where does B0$e fit in all of this? Ignorance, you want to see ignorance look around you at the people who voted MeeKain/PailLinn.This is IGNORANCE.

Hmmm Hmmm and Hmmm after all own 47 subwoofers...no thanks. [] Hmmm should I open a can of tuna now? Hmmm should I check the peak to peak on the tuna can lid and Klippel the lid? LOL

Diana Krell he shakes her head too much,someone has implanted a spring in her neck! My fave tunes from Krell... 1. The Look of FPB600 2. Power costs money 3. Torroid 4 life 4. Power bills are nasty

I saw this way back. I could replicate this and using much more capable drivers/amps.But the way my setup sounds and performs there is no need to change.

The Conquest is not a monster,it is you people who are used to tiny weak stuff. LOL Tiny subs are for tiny people and dwarfs. The Conquest would not satisfy my need for bass, a few would.

skonopa, My guess was a good one I said 20K plus and it is a $21000 sub. Four of these and I am happy, my twenty sealed will move just as much air even if the Wilson subs have the extra gain ports add to the equation. - - - - CECAA, The large eD uses two $250 drivers a Kiega plate amp ~$300 and a MDF cabinet. Great performer,superb value. Large ported subs tuned low are best used in larger rooms where one or two units can only fit. I prefer a stack of sealed subs or ...better yet...a wall of sealed subs...backed by two half walls to do the job.

WilsonAudio products havereference class built quality and are about sound quality above it all,this sub uses what apears to be two 15" drivers capable of a solid 3 inch linear excursion.Being a ported design this means one thing,massive output. And being tuned around the 16Hz mark means it will do a fantastic job even reproducing pipe organ music. However the cabinet itself is probably worth ~ 14K alobe,knwing Wilson. The drivers,custom around $1500-2000 per driver. This is a $20000 plus product.Worthy of those who value immaculate build quality and ready to spend. I have a subwoofer system capable of demolishing the so called reference levels well below the frequency audible range, sub bass super power is addictive.I would need at least six of these to even begin to match my sub bass system.In output

Nothing new.the 1812 is a product that is several years on the market. Overpriced to boot, the JL Audio Gotham bests this 1812 in contruction,output and matches the 1812 in sound quality. For less money.