TEXASRONANDTRISH

IMHO Simple Minds are NOT prog. I think you hit the nail on the head with your definition, I would add time signiture changes throughout the song, also, perhaps songs lasting longer than the average top 40 "hit". Tunes that make you think. Some call Supertramp prog, what do you think? Kansas? Over on the prog archives site they have Deep Purple as prog, and in the discussion forums some are thinking Iron Maiden should be added to the progressive metal list. Like you said, I think I know prog when I hear it, what anyone else hears may be different. I think Genesis "Trick of the Tail" is prog, Abacab on the other hand is NOT prog[] Nektar(great group) is prog, Deep purple is not prog (great group however) Iron Maiden has had 3-4 concept albums, long songs, time signiture changes, are they prog? By definition I guess, but to MY ears...I think not. Just thinking about prog...[] Ron by the way if you like Nektar check out renaissance., female singer but..[][]

Hey, I'm just glad we haven't started calling each other names and started a flame war[] See if you can find a sample of ,The Watch-Vacuum...... TRUST ME!!! Ron

Bet its a Porcupine Tree tune?

nicholtl, I sampled some songs from the groups you gave me, most are not to my taste, to each his own right [], I did enjoy Sigur Ros ,but I think you're stretching the prog barrier to the point of breaking.[] Ron

WOW, cleanly and succinctly it was. Thank you. I'll check a couple of them out. Sounds like you gravitate to the far edge of prog? If you haven't try Conception. I think they may be right up your alley. Thanks again. Ron

nicholtl, I know Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, Mars Volta. Can you give me the lowdown on the others, maybe a comparison? Can't believe I left PT off my list. Forgot about them. Ron

My Fave would have to be Peter Gabriel era Genesis, the KINGS of prog MANY imitators. check out Wind and Wuthering, and Trick of the Tail by Genesis AFTER Peter left, AMAZING. I agree they went pop after those last 2. I agree with Yes. These spend a lot of time on my CD player The Watch VERY Genesis like. Marillion. Also like Genesis Pendragon. The Tangent.. Flower Kings members in this group Neal Morse. Christian Prog.. used to be a member of Spocks Beard, another good one Fates Warning. Metal Prog ala Dream Theater Explorers Club.. A metal prog supergroup. The Moody Blues.. the first 4 LP's can't be beat I can think of more if need be[] LOVE THIS THREAD!!! Ron

I'M BACK TO PROGRESSIVE ROCK. THE WATCH-VACUUM, ON CD. THE WATCH ARE INCREDIBLE, SOME CALL THEM A GENESIS CLONE...WHO CARES. THIS IS THE CD GENESIS WOULD HAVE MADE HAD PETER GABRIEL STAYED WITH THE GROUP. IF YOU'RE A FAN OF GENESIS PICK THIS ONE UP. BEAUTIFUL MELODIES. BLESSINGS, RON

WRONG!!!!(imo)

I'm still buying, today as a matter of fact, "Batman begins".Being an old fart, I don't think my eyes or ears are good enough to notice the difference the new formats are supposed to provide.[] Ron

The James Gang-Bang on LP. Classic Rock/Blues, Bang had Tommy Bolin playing guitar on it This guy was AMAZING. He was also on the James Gang LP "Miami" Check out some of his solo offerings. He was also on later Deep Purple albums, "Come Taste The Band" being the standout, IMHO. Bolin and Rory Gallagher are my two fav guitar hereos, both passed away too early. Blessings Ron

I don't get the comparisons to early Genesis at all. Genesis is THE progressive Rock King (IMO) Supertramp falls somewhere along the Toto, Little River Band, and Styx lines. Although I agree Crime of the Century is very good, Also try Roger Hodsons solo LP, he was the singer.

Then go here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=br_ss_hs/002-2996540-9733645?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dmusic&field-keywords=Von+Freeeman&Go.x=6&Go.y=4

Both for me. I just bought the Rory Gallagher CD, but last week I recommended a LP I've had for 20 years.

This week... Rory Gallagher-"Lets Go To Work" 4 disc cd set consisting of "Irish Tour", "Meeting With The G-Man", "Live In Europe", and "Stage Struck", all live sets. BLISTERING blues rock, MAYBE like Johnny Winters if you must compare. MUCH, MUCH better IMHO. Too bad the Lord took him from us so soon, been buying everything I can of his lately. I'm usually a prog rock guy but I've been off it a while, really into Gallagher, Mountain, Derek trucks, Robin Trower as of late.

People trying to relive the "good ol days" or people who can no longer hear.[] I used to LOVE these guys, no when to say when.

Well, I'll get a little more spirited. Mine is Rory Gallaher- Live, On LP, Blues/rock. The official title is Live in Europe but mines an original copy, the first few were pressed without the" in Europe" Rory was a guitar master who is sadly missed. I rank this live LP up there with The Who- Live at Leads. Pick this bad boy up, GREAT blues tunes. Ron

I read that on their website, I can't wait. I'll bet the concert was great. Wish they would come to Dallas[]

WOW nice website, check out www.progarchives.com sometime. Great prog site. Ron

Hmmmmm! I must admit to being a bit, no, 'allot' confused here![] Wow! Disdain for Entwistle??? I am not sure of the source of your personal hangup here! But, please! Have a seat and try to relax! ...and we will try to get you some help! ...It will be OK![] And Jaco was the first to explore 'the finer points' of the bass? Jaco didn't even come onto the scene until the '70s!?? That wasn't even the claim to fame for Entwistle! I am not sure what the issue is here between you and Entwistle, but I will let you deal with it, it doesn't change what Entwistle did for almost 10 years before Jaco even entered the music scene! And what Jaco did and what Entwistle did - I'm not sure how you even compare them as they don't compete in the same areas at all! And I wouldn't even attempt to debate between the two. It would be a silly topic. It's like arguing monster trucks versus GTP/CanAm sports cars![] And I'm glad that you seem to desire to take all of the fringe issues and elements mentioned as esoteric asides and somehow try to substitute them to prove some other point. Bass players who are vocalists?? Yeah, Stone the Crows did put on an electrifying stage show[] Literally! (A tragedy, that!) They were literally one of the first acts I did a show with in '70. And if you are debating songwriting bass players? How about some minor fellow by the name of Brian Wilson? But that wasn't a desire of mine either... I am not sure of the reason for the outburst, nor your issues with Entwistle! [] Maybe its because Anderson's vocals drive me up the wall...who knows (but I wasn't alone!) - and all because I dared to mention Jack Bruce? I guess I touched a nerve![] If you want to try to make a point based on something I qualified as an exception, be my guest! That is why I dis-qualified the mention of Bruce as an exception from the start!!!! And if anyone else wants to use some other criteria for judging someone, that's fine. But as long as you do you are talking apples and oranges! At that point it ceases to make sense to try to debate across categories!!! For all I care one can judge folks based on how they look in spandex and glitter, but that does not change the evaluation of players based upon the impact they had on innovation in bass playing. And if you simply like 'fun' and 'proficient' bass players, dare I say there are pages worth of them! And arguing about any of them is ludicrous, as we will have just reduced the evaluation to purely subjective terms, and I am not interested in an argument over which flavor of ice cream is best! Enjoy! And for all the amazing and innovative bass players that exist and have existed, my personal favorite as both a player and a person (and yes, Victor and others are dear friends!) is still Jack Casady! And may I suggest that anyone, whether you are a guitarist or a bass player, if you are serious, please check out the master's classes at Jorma's Fur Peace Ranch in Pomeroy, OH. PS - The one notable exception that is so apparent in his absence is the mention by anyone regarding James Jamerson! As the father of the Motown bass lines, it would seem far more would be showing their reverence to his contribution then to Chris Squire! Although I will credit Squire with managing to wrestle that damned Rickenbacker! ...Perhaps the best looking and most awkward monstrosity to ever be manufactured! And how else could you play that disaster then with a pick![][] So there!! Nah, nah, nah![] ...Right back atcha![][][] Have fun!!!!! [][][][] PS. If you like Dewar and his work with Trower, the remastered and expanded offerings including Bridge of Sighs, etc. are well worth while! Ah, we're having fun now.[]I compared Jaco to the Ox because before the 70's Entwistle did nothing to further the bass as an instrument, not that he ever did but he did improve in the 70's. Different styles to be sure but YOU brought others into the mix so I thought I might as well. I don't get how you can't appreciate Squire-*** for tat there. You got into the whole innovation thing again, and again, thats not what the originator of the topic asked. Although Ox did NOTHING innovative, as I see it.[] As for the Trower remasters, got em all. Actually I'm a Trower nut. I have over 100 boots of his. James Dewer is Kinda my musical hero, his voice, oh that voice.Nice tight playing as well. I met Bill Lordon on tour once and we hit it off. I have demos of Trower along with Him, Dewer and Lordon jamming in Robins apartment. GREAT stuff. Sat in on a recording session for Long Misty days, literally sat, No I did not play, nor was I asked[] I have demos from that session with alternate takes. Flame Away Ron

oh yeah, whats AMG?

Perfect attitude. Love the Gary Thain point, forgot about him as well. Thats usually how I judge a performer, do I like it. Sometimes I get caught up in arguments, especially about bass players, about inovation, who cares. How freaking good does he play is the only criteria. The topic wasn't "best inovative bass player ever" it was best best player ever. I'll stick with my original answer. Gene Simmons of Kiss....only kidding. One I forgot about also Noel Redding-Jimi Hendrix Band Ron

Being a bass player for over 35 years I must disagree with you on Squire, he is MUCH more than proficient, Jack Bruce sounds like me next to Squire. Don't even get me started on Entwistle, Geddy Lee. This has nothing to do with personality, hair, ect. just talent. Squire made the bass an out front instrument rather than a secondary thought. I could get into all the technical aspects but I think I would be banging my head againt the door. Oh and Roger Waters is a VERY good player, not in the same league as others but again, better than Jack Bruce, or as we call him, Hi-jack bruce for the runs he steals. Flame On Ron No flame, I'm just not sure what the real issue is here![] Squire is talented. OK... But he was not responsible for the bass moving out front nor in playing melody lines. And playing with a pick or a Rickenbacker is not exactly an innovation.[] We ironically did a few shows with them and the Eagles with Poco in '72 (heck, who remembers the exact dates!). A very interesting (read weird!) mix of styles! And with all due respect, while Yes was very talented, Anderson's vocals drive me up the wall! But no matter, as my criteria was in the area of innovation! Not who was the most popular! Nor the fastest, nor the loudest, nor any of a dozen other attributes.The list of extremely proficient bass players is pages long! The list of innovators is NOT! And if you want to take issue with Entwistle, be my guest. You are on your own! He almost single handedly brought the bass out of the basement as the first to play registers never before explored with the bass. And Squire and Geddy Lee, et. al. simply proficiently occupied the territory already blazed! And I attributed the limitation to Bruce of not being an innovator as far as his bass paying was concerned!! Although I will put his songwriting up against anything that Thin Lizzy ever produced! And if you want to fault his vocals, be my guest. I disagree. I simply added him as a personal emotional favorite! So what is the point that was not already made in the post?[] And if we want to list proficient bass players who are great vocalists, the list is long as well, and we could add Tim Schmidt and so many others! I just like Jack Bruce! And I'll put Theme from an Imaginary Western up against anything Thin Lizzy or anyone has done![] And while I am not sure what time in grade playing matters, but if it does, I have played now for ~40 years, actually spending more time recently wrestling with the upright (and still not sure who is winning) for my personal enjoyment, but still occassionally resorting (primarily) to a Fender Precision rosewood fretless and even occasionally to the EB-3L obtained for me by Jack C while I was still in high school in Fairfax!! After all, it ironically has a direct connection to how I started working with a few of these folks when I was still 17. ...And leading up to my association with Victor, Reg, Joe, Roy and the rest of the family in addition to a few other notables who accompanied them to Nashville from Norfolk in '88. And that is not to mention several other notables such as Avery Johnson, Roy Vogt, Anthony Joyner and Davey Roe! And they are ALL amazing players! Whatever this all means![] How's that for rambling![][] Sorry, I'm not alone in my disdaine(sp?) for Entwistle. Hardly the first to explore the finer points, I'd argue that Jaco Pastorius did that, maybe even John Mills. If we want to explore Bass players who write and sing I'll take the late James Dewer of Stone The Crows and Robin Trower, he wrote circles around Bruce IMO. I love Theme from an Imaginary Western, we opened for Leslie in 74? At the Chicago Amphitheater. Better that Closer to the Edge? Hardly I guess we'll agree to disagree. just know one thing......I'm right and you're wrong nah, nah[]

God, for singing/songwriting bassists I think Phil Lynott had Jack Bruce beat, IMO. Thin Lizzy were so much more than "The Boys Are Back In Town"-- a great and very distinctive singer and he played within the songs-- I agree 100% Forgot about Phil.

Being a bass player for over 35 years I must disagree with you on Squire, he is MUCH more than proficient, Jack Bruce sounds like me next to Squire. Don't even get me started on Entwistle, Geddy Lee. This has nothing to do with personality, hair, ect. just talent. Squire made the bass an out front instrument rather than a secondary thought. I could get into all the technical aspects but I think I would be banging my head againt the door. Oh and Roger Waters is a VERY good player, not in the same league as others but again, better than Jack Bruce, or as we call him, Hi-jack bruce for the runs he steals. Flame On Ron