Malcolm

Hi Steve, After looking at your setup, I was going to ask why you didn't just use a Belle for your center. You are half way there with the modified Heresy. What a system! I am considering using K-1011-KVs from the Academy. Efficiency is comparable to Heresy. I am assuming they are nominally 4 ohms given the configuration of the Academy. If so, I may not need to make any major crossover mods. If not, I guess I'll have to make whatever mods are necessary. Gee, if I do this, I don't know if I'll have a modified Heresy or a modified Academy when I'm done. I guess it could be considered a Herademy or an Acadesy.

Years ago, the folks at McIntosh did blind A/B tests. The result was that once you had large enough wire, there was no audible difference between speaker cables. A lot of people will argue with this. People have come up with all sorts of esoteric speaker cables using CAT5 wire, coax, Litz wire, etc. that they claim to be big improvements over run of the mill speaker cable. The cables forum at www.audioasylum.com has more that you will ever want to know about the topic. IMHO plain old 12 gauge speaker wire is fine for reasonable runs, say 50 feet or less. I am currently in the process of pulling it in my attic and walls for my HT system. Acutally, its not quite plain old 12 gauge wire. It is plain old 12 gauge wire in a CL3 rated jacket. Cost about $.18/foot. I would suggest buying the cheap stuff and see if you can hear the difference. At worse, it is a cheap experiment. At best, it could save you a good deal of money.

Thanks, guys! Checked out SteveP's homepage. His mod uses a Klipschorn squawker and AA crossover to match the Klipschorns he has for left and right front channels. Cool, but a bit different that what I am thinking of. So, unless someone else pipes in, it looks like I may be tredding on new ground here.

John, would you elaborate, please?

Also, the speaker impedance you refer to is nominal impedance. Actual speaker impedance varies considerably from nominal impedance depending on frequency. You should be just fine with what you have.

The forums here are good places. Just, try to match the forum you pose the question in to the question. If it doesn't fit, the worst that will happen is someone will politely refer you to the appropriate one. You may want to check of www.audioasylum.com, too. Don't forget to search the archives here and there. A question you have may already have been asked and answered. BTW, why do you want to change the output impedance of your amplifier?

Anybody ever think about building an "ultimate" center channel for the Heritage line? What I am thinking of is something with a K-77 and a K-55-V between a couple of 8" woofers, so it has that low profile center channel form factor. I know the best center channel matches made by Klipsch are Academy, KV-4 and KLF-C7. I currently have a perfect sonic match with a Heresy in the center to go with four other Heresys in the front and rear. I'd just like that perfect match with the center channel form factor. Opinions, anybody?

A good graphic equalizer can help smooth out the frequency response at your listening location. Room acoustics result in differences in response from factory speces for certain frequencies at certain locations. These differences can sometimes be heard as dramatic holes or peaks in response at those frequencies. They vary depending on where you are in the room. So the graphic equalizer can only fix problems at one location. As suggested previously, 1/3 db per step or less to be useful. You will also need the gear to measure frequency response.

As has already been noted, you can find all the tweaks in the archives, plus the pros and cons. Many of these are improvements to what Klipsch shipped, not updates to the latest Klipsch spec. Damping the squawker, and maybe the tweeter, horn and replacing the capacitors in the crossover network will give you the most bang for the buck. You might also want to replace the barrier strip on the back with a modern connector, just for convenience. Even if you are not particularly handy, you ought to be able to do these yourself. The capacitor change requires soldering, but its about as simple as soldering gets. You may or may not be able to hear the difference from other mods. Unless you have the hearing of a child, you probably won't be able to hear the difference between the K-77 and K-77-M tweeters (which do you have now?) You may or may not be able to hear the difference between versions of the K-55-V squawker. Its not that big. The K-53-K squaker that was used in the last of the Heresys is not an improvement over what you have now. The woofers all sound pretty much alike so no need to change. If you want to go whole hog, you can replace the crossover with AlK's, but you may or may not be able to hear a difference from that either, and its possible you may not like the change. Good luck and enjoy! Let us know how it goes.

I don't think its a question of audiophile ears, just differences in ears and/or tastes between people. I don't know if most people could not tell the difference. You may be right. There are certainly some, as you atest. The Heresy and Heresy II both have (different) horns for the squawker and tweeter. They certainly sound more alike than something with a cone squawker and a dome tweeter. They both have that Heritage sound. I would suggest that anyone considering mixing Heresys and Heresy IIs audition them before buying. If you like the results, go for it! If you cannot audition them first, I think buying speakers that match what you already have is safer. Otherwise you might have to turn around and resell your new rear speakers like I did (at least I made a profit). If you watch eBay, a match will come around sooner or later for everything from 60s to current models.

Heresy IIs are not a good timbre match for your Heresys. The tweeters and squawkers are different and sound different. You may or may not find them acceptable as rear channels. You will definitely notice the difference if you mix Heresys and Heresy IIs in the front. BTW the last few years of Heresys (84 and up) are not a good timbre match for earlier Heresys either. They have a different squawker, K-53-K instead of K-55-V.

Unpowered speakers don't have voltage ratings. But they do have power ratings, e.g. 50 watts, which is related to the voltage applied to them. Howerver, this voltage has nothing to do with the supply voltage required by the receiver, i.e. 110V, 220V, etc. So, don't sweat it. Just hook them up to your receiver and don't exceed the power rating.

I'm using a MA700 to drive my sub. 300 watts into a 4 ohm load. Works great. I think the MA6100 will work well for your application.

Well, unless you bounced them around and loosened some connections on the crossover network, it sounds like the voice coils of the woofers are fused. Were you running high volume bass through them just before the bass went away?

Welcome to the world of Heresy HT! If I were you, I wouldn't worry about my choices. Enjoy what you have. If it sounds right to you, then you are set. If not, plan on upgrading. Just about all of us have. And remember, you won't be out all that much. There is a good resale market for Klipsch speakers on eBay if you need to unload any of what you have now. IMHO, the best Heresy based HT system is five identical or nearly identical Heresys (same model tweeter and squawker in all) with horn and crossover tweaks, and a good subwoofer. Hey, that's what I have! The biggest potential problem with what you have chosen is that the KSSC1 and SS1 are not timbre matched to the Heritage line. The center channel is the biggest issue. You'll probably hear a noticeable difference as sounds pan from side to side. Rears are less important, but you will probably hear a difference there too. My guess is the center channel is probably what you will want to upgrade first. In a smallish room, you may find that a phantom center channel where the center channel is simulated by the receiver using the left and right front speakers actually sounds better than your KSCC1. I started out with a mismatched center when I started in HT. It was the first thing I upgraded. Best center channel is a matched Heresy. Other choices with reasonably good timbre match are Academy, KV-4 and KLF-C7, in that order. KLF-C7 is probably the easiest to find. The others show up on eBay from time to time. A single Heresy of the correct vintage may be difficult to find. You might have to buy a pair to get the one you need. You can always sell the extra one. The rears aren't that big a deal with Dolby Prologic material, like OTA TV programs. Dolby Prologic is not full range, and its mono. I used non-Klipsch rears when I only had Prologic and though they sounded acceptable. But the rears are more important with Dolby Digital or DTS. The sound is full range, and discrete. Even the difference in timbre between early Heresys with the K55V squawker and the last of the model run with the K53K squawker was noticeable to me. I actually had to replace a pair of Heresys to get the sound right. So, the rears were my second and third speaker upgrades. Subwoofer choice is very personal. KSW-12 may be just the ticket for you. Only your ears and time will tell. Any decent subwoofer will give you a needed extra octave or so of bass. Frnakly, even a cheap dual voice coil passive subwoofer can yield a noticeable improvement over the Heresy's bass. That's what I started with. My fourth, and last, speaker upgrade was to replace it with a powered subwoofer. It is the one speaker in my system, and many Klipsch systems, that is still not Klipsch. And it may wind up so in your system. Klipsch really hasn't been a leader in subwoofers. Its not the the KSWs are bad. But better products have been available elsewhere for less money. And Klipsch screwed up their first venture into high end subwoofers so bad that they had to pull the line off the market. Hopefully the new Reference series subwoofers will be an improvement. But they aren't cheap. So, if you are starting on the journey I think you are, enjoy! It should be a pleasant one!

If you have a separate preamp and amp, you can feed a center channel amp through a couple resistors (don't recall appropriate values), one from the left channel preamp out to the power amp, one from the right channel. You could do the same thing from the speaker outputs using bigger resistors. I believe people also used to connect a center channel between the hot speaker terminal of the left channel and the hot speaker terminal of the right channel.

Perhaps userk is thinking of the the Klipsch Shorthorn 12 which had a 12" woofer? It was produced between 1956 and 1965, along with the Shorthorn 15 which had a 15" woofer. With the possible exception of the very earliest 19 units that Gil mentioned, I believe all Klipschorns have 15" woofers. Over the years several woofers have been used (see Gil's list), a few different squakwers (University SA-HF, K55V, K55M), at least a couple of tweeters (University 4401, K77, K77M), and several variations of the crossover. There is not much difference in low end performance between them. It is pretty much a factor of the design of the horn, not the woofer itself. Crossover frequency from woofer to squawker may have changed a bit when Klipsch went from the SA-HF to the K55V. But they all sound pretty much alike to me. The Stephens and EV woofers were probably the best. Most of the changes Klipsch made in the Heritage line over the years seem to be due cost or availability of speakers.

If it is the color of the oak you don't like, it may be possible to stain it a different shade. Darker is easiest. Lighter may also be possible if you bleach the wood first. Or you could paint it. If it is the grain you don't like, you can veneer right over it if it is sound. There are glue backed veneers in many popular woods, including walnut, birch, teak, etc., that are fairly simple to apply. They are about as easy to use as peel, stick, trim, with some care of course. And if you are willing to do the gluing yourself, just about any wood in the world is a possibility. You might want to check www.constantines.com to get an idea of what is available. Is the current finish oiled, lacquered or what?

The KLF-C7 may also work as a center channel.

I have five Heresys and a sub. For best results, the Heresys should be of similar vintage for proper timbre match, i.e. same tweeters and squawkers. In other words, all early to mid Heresys with K77 and K55V, all later Heresys with the mud tweeter (minor high end output improvement which you may or may not be able to hear), all very last Heresys with the K53 midrange (very noticeable timbre change from earlier Heresys), or all Heresy IIs. Although a number of different woofers were used in the Heresys during the line's life, I cannot hear a significant difference in bass between those built in the 60s, 70s or 80s. The various versions of the K22 all appear to have been due to cost or availability of the woofer. Alternatives for the center channel would be an Academy or KV4 if you can find one. I think these are the only center channel speakers that will be a close match for the Heritage line. The sub is really a matter of personal taste. See the powered subwoofer thread archives for everything you ever wanted to know and more. I have a Decware WO32 driven by a 300 watt monoblock amp.

Unless the guy your bought them from owned them since 1964, both cones may have been replaced at one time or another. I have owned SP12Bs that came originally with paper surrounds. But they were the older style redish brown baskets. I think there were also later style SP12Bs with paper surrounds. But, as far as I can tell, the SP12Bs used in the early Heresys came originally with the red cloth surround, as did the CTS speakers that replaced them. Its really not important which ones you end up with. But the surrounds and spiders of the two speakers should match so they have the same comliance, and so the speakers have the same sound.

Sounds like you know a good shop. So I expect you will be satisfied when you get the speaker back. You may hear a difference in the bass between the two speakers then, due to the difference in compliance of the surround and spider in the newly reconed speaker and the original one. You may want to pull the second woofer and have it reconed, too, so they match. At that point, the only changes I would suggest are to damp the horns with Dynamat or a generic equivalent, and replace the capacitors with the same values in your favorite modern audophile brand. Its moot now, but the crossover network changes I mentioned would just bring the crossover up to the same type used with the later woofers. I don't think they would change the character of the sound at all, just make the speakers sound right with the updated woofer. Klipsch seems to have maintained a very consistent sound throughout most of the original Heresy line over nearly 20 years. My 1966 H700s and 1972 Heresys have Type C networks. My 1974 and 1978 Heresys have Type E networks. The only differences between the speakers is the woofer. All of them have K77 tweeters and K55V squawkers, and I believe they all crossover between the tweeter and squawker at about the same frequency. The network differences are only in the taps used on the T2A and one capacitor value. The reason for the network changes appears to be differences in woofer efficiency and response between earlier and later models with K22 variants: 1966 EV SP12B, 1972 CTS with large magnet structure, 1974 CTS with smaller magnet structure, later years various including Eminence. When towards the end of the original Heresy model run, Klipsch ran out of K55Vs and substituted K53Ks (Heppner), they added a 33 uF cap to the Type E and called it a Type E2. These are the only ones I can hear a difference in, and its very obviously due to the K53K. Frankly, the only newer woofer that I might consider an improvement would be the K24, and only if I were not using a subwoofer. Some folks feel that you get a bit lower bass with it. But it won't be much. All variations in the K22 series of woofers appear to be to reduce cost or because a supplier became unviable. The SP12B was the best woofer ever put in the Heresy line. So, congratulations! Enjoy!

Woofer is an SP12B, not an SP12. There is a big difference. SP12 has a 3 pound magnet. SP12B has a 1 pound magnet. Another possible solution to your woofer problem is to use a later model K-22 (e.g. K-22-EF or K-22-K) or K-24. It would take a crossover network change. But if yours has a T2A autotransformer and a 1.5 mH choke like the later models, all that would be necessary to bring it up to Type E or E2 is replacing/adding capacitors and changing the taps the speakers are connected to. Capacitors are frequently replaced when tweaking these speakers anyway.

Klipsch guy is on the right track. Just a few comments. Veener thickness is probably closer to .030", maybe even .020". Assuming an oiled finish, no need to use stripper. You'll never get all of an oiled finish off. The finish polymerizes. The only way to get it all off is to sand through the wood. Just sand with a light touch until you get rid of imperfections, being careful not to go through the veneer. Use bronze wool instead of steel wool. Some of the wool will inevitably embed in the wood. Steel will rust after awhile and affect your finish. Bronze will not.

Went back and looked at the pictures on eBay. That vintage SP12Bs have red surrounds. One of yours does not. So either the speaker has been replaced or it was reconed somewhere along the line. Are the serial numbers on the two woofers reasonably close? Is the one with the black surround the one with the problem? If so, I would bet that it was reconed badly.