Bill Cain

I won't second-guess you on opening things up. Too late for that. Who can tell what that damage will do, from your picture? But I would do three things: 1) Put everything back together. 2) Listen to the speakers. 3) Ponder HOW such damage could have happened and where the PWK nameplate and piece of black cap went. After all, it was inside a sealed cabinet, wrapped in Fiberglas and trimmed in aluminum. (At least my LSI's are) That driver looks like it took a shot to the back. Who knows WHAT that did, inside. If the speakers sound OK I have no idea what your recourse would be. If they don't..... I'd be talking with the seller. Anything else is pure conjecture.

I'm not familiar with S-8's. And I haven't found anything on the Internet about that old University gear. It's as if it never existed. If you have links, let me know. My four (highly modified) S-9's were traded out in 1979, after I closed a disco, in Pittsburgh. I have no clue what happened to the cabinets. In 1973 you could order unloaded cabinets in clear unfinished birch. They weren't that expensive ($150?) and were very high quality. Hell, I think I paid less than $700 for a new pair of S-9's in 1971. And the dealer sold me a pair of Dyna MK II's for $100, complete with pre-amps. It was sort of a shame to paint the cabinets black...... But when you haul things around they get banged up and black spray paint hides a lot of damage. The S-9's were loud as hell. The Cobraflex horn looks funky, but was surprisingly good. I suspect the driver was the same as the K-Horn. (T-30?) The HF-206 tweets were damn good with a phase plug to help dispersion. But the S-9 has the same natural limitation as the La Scala; the small mouth opening of the woofer horn. I personally think the S-9 is a more efficient design; the horn seems about 50% larger than a La Scala. The La Scala is only 24" x 24". Looking back, the JBL double scoops were the hot ticket in that era for good PA bottom end. But for listening at home, I don't think you'd have any problems with the University's. You can always get great, cheap subs these days that did not exist back then. In 1980 or so, I picked up the (4) LSI's after becoming familiar with Klipsch Industrials at Chujko Brothers. The Fiberglas and aluminum trim made a lot of sense to me, by then. And the splits made portability a little better. Plus, I could stack them two high. I didn't need to stack tables and then hoist a speaker on top of THAT to project over a crowd.

I had the opportunity to take advantage of the "Reflecting" part of that equation, a few years back. I had a cocktail party in an outdoor courtyard of a hotel. I wanted to provide a nice level of background music, without overpowering the crowd. I laid my EAW FR-253's on their backs, behind shrubbery, aimed upwards to the sky. The result was perfect as the 15-story walls surrounding the courtyard provided a reflective surface and a little natural reverb. Thank you, Dr. Bose.

I'm willing to learn what "colotaion" is, whenever you can explain it. Never too old to learn. []

I'm willing to learn what "colotaion" is, whenever you can explain it. Never too old to learn. []

Been there, done that...... Back in the early seventies, I had some University S9 speakers. Folded plywood horn, three-way crossover, etc. Went from 60w Dyna tube amps to Phase Linear 400's. Hmmmmm... I guess the turning point was going from my South West Technical Products 100w amplifier kits to my first Phase Linear 400. If I remember correctly, both cost about $1 a watt. No more looking like a refugee from an Erector set. I even got the wooden cabinets and stuffed muffin fans in them. I was cool [H] And with more power...... Maybe I could use more powerful woofer? Got six Gauss.... Gave the two with the lowest free air resonance to a buddy...... He still has 'em in his home S-9's.... Replaced the Cobraflex horns with some Fiberglas radials that sorta fit in the cabinet..... Tried piezo tweeters as replacements for the HF-206..... Spent lots of time and money..... Wasted was more like it. Never again. While I note many of the mods that folks do here, I am not one to try that anymore. I read with admiration how they tweak things and mix'n'match components. I got that out of my system 30+ years ago. I figure that the average factory might be a little smarter than me. I'll let them do all the research and I'll just buy what works for me. I'm lazy, I guess. My next large cabinets were Industrial La Scala's in the BG version. Still got 'em. I've added subs (EAW SB180) and auxilliary tweets (JBL 2405) but I'll never try to build my own cabinets again. YMMV.... [au]

You've said it all. Thank you, Putz. Goodbye. Don't let the door, etc.... [N]

I think the Company Store idea might work, if used in Outlet Stores with the HT and iPod stuff. I guess that even the Heritage line might benefit from a store that is well-planned and executed. I don't see where there is a very comprehensive Klipsch Dealer Network, to begin with. There appear to be a few good dealers, scattered about, but I've read a lot of negative posts about poorly presented products. Very simple to do. No excuse for NOT posting that info. If you had Company Stores, that just might work. [H]

It's called insecurity. [] They have been able to market their brand of innovation more successfully than most audio company's; Klipsch included. It's because most of their consumer based HT systems selling ARE junk. This forum may be a little different because it's 'klipsch' specific, but try asking for recommendations for a Bose Surround system at any Hi-Fi forum. Try your luck at Ecoustics, Audioholics, AVS, or any of the major forums and see what kind of response you get. Permit me to clarify...... Bose is a very successfull company. They sell lots of products to many people. I was not saying their products were in any way superior OR desirable, from an audiophile's perspective, comparable to Klipsch. That should not HAVE to be said in this forum. I would think that anyone who can understand the differences between Klipsch and Bose would already know that. The "insecurity" I was referring to is the infantile need to bash in order to boost one's ego. It's akin to going on a Ferrarri foum and bashing Yugo's. I don't need to go to ANY forums to be fed more bashing of ANY brand. It's as much a waste of time there, as here. BTW, those various pics of Klipsch wooden horns (including the Photoshopped one) were great!!! It's spooky when you see someone else has been thinking the same things.... Lately, I've been day-dreaming about a Kustom Klipschorn or La Scala that I thought could be made. The corner horn / bass horn would not change. For the mid-range and tweeter, I'd like to see both horns, carved by computer, out of wood. They would be very visible, along with the crossover and drivers, not hidden inside a cabinet. The crossover is already a work of art. The drivers might need some snap-on covers designed to upgrade their appearance. But for everything else, form is function. I think it would be a great way of differentiating Klipsch Heritage gear in the marketplace.

1) Product evolution with backward compatibility.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 2) Non-obsolescence of core products and parts. 3) Custom build services available at a price. 4) Continual R&D and New Product Development. 5) Flagship Concert System for International visibility. Klipsch has a head start on most other companies, based upon the core values of Paul Klipsch. The only problem is that hes no longer here to enforce those values. If products have inherent design qualities, such as the Klipschorn, La Scala and Heresy, they will transcend generations and market definitions. Individual components may be improved, and various packaging exercises may be implemented, but the core components will remain identifiable and valuable as a differentiator in the marketplace. If those core components are stable, the customer will look to customize their own speakers, perhaps at the factory. Look at Harley Davidson for an example of such creative marketing. R&D must never stop and one must always look at what other companies are bringing to the table. To remain static is to die. Active subs are a good example. Creating a modern Line-Array System would only require the development of three or four cabinets yet would allow the company to acquire very high visibility. If packaged properly, such systems would promote a visibility and cachet that money cannot buy.

It's called insecurity. [] They have been able to market their brand of innovation more successfully than most audio company's; Klipsch included. That said, a friend who used Bose gear was forced to buy a pair of Industrial Heresy's after I substituted for him at a gig. He was really pissed at first. But he's still using them 30 years later. I wouldn't put much faith in the advertisement-driven magazine industry. But I do think they could be used to promote the Klipsch Heritage lineup. Just concentrate on the core and accentuate it with new technology. How cool would Klipshorns with wooden horns be? Ever priced an old JBL wooden horn? [+o(] Do the same with La Scala's. [] Use the latest in CAD routers to make the mid-range and tweeter horns. Make sure the grain is visible and part of the design. [] Make the horns, drivers and even x-overs a piece of art that compliments the genius in design and the music played through them. [<)] I don't expect this would happen. After all, it might cost a couple of thousand bucks to actually create the first pair of all-wood K-horns. But they sure would make a statement.

My 'normal' setup is a pair of split La Scala's, per side, with the LF cabinets stacked and the HF cabinets on top. When the La Scala's are placed on top of an 18-inch sub the resultant column is a little over eight feet tall. Adding a little delay to the 18's and having the LSI LF's couple seems to work. When it came time to grow my system, I added the EAW FR-253's. Much more compact than a pair of La Scala's, and much less efficient, they fit the bill as they could be used with the existing SB180 subs as a stand alone system or as short-throw fills. They are a three-way box with two 15's, two 7's and a fair horn. I have used auxilliary tweets (Yamaha) with them and may sweeten them with some 2405's I have. Nothing is perfect. OTOH, if I were to locate four more LSI-BG splits, I could be interested...... Imagine the possibilities..... And the efficiency. [Y]

DIY see: http://www.passdiy.com/projects/el-pipe-o-1.htm

Thanks for the heads-up, Steve. Looks like the "Pro" Klipsch line has thinned out to the point of darn near disappearing. I long for those days when I could walk into a Klipsch dealer and audition the Industrial line, up to and including the MCM. I purchased the Heresy and La Scala models and use them to this day. I have augmented them, but never replaced them. It's impossible to replace either with today's products. I look at the MDF crap on the market today and note that my Fibeglas-covered and metal-edged split La Scala's whip the snot out of anything currently on the market. And NOBODY has ever put out a 3-way box to beat the Heresy Industrial. I always figured that the Industrial line was a classic and would be in production forever. I see I was wrong. I guess that I'll continue to lurk in ePay for more good vintage Klipsch Industrial gear and look to other sources for subs to compliment my La Scala's. I'll inquire about the Theater line. I'll call Chuck Mulhearn back on Saturday, after he gets home. BTW, I remember a club in Philly, in 1978, called the Second Story. They had double Klipschorns stacked in each corner, with the horns at the top, 8 K-horns in all. In the DJ booth was a rack of Mac amps. Yes, Studio 54 was a bit louder and more flamboyant, with an RLA system that was all JBL. But that Klipsch / MacIntosh system was the cleanest I've ever heard.

I resemble that remark!!!! I hooked my crank to a bicycle..... [8-|]

I'm new here; has the Administrator has set any limits for attachments? If 5 megapixel photos are not big enough, [:^)] posting 20 meg pics could make the hosting bill go through the roof. [li]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I have seen their product and concur with your evaluation. My core system might be best viewed as a huge La Scala; its very efficient and presents the music with clarity. However, it lacks the extreme bottom end that is associated with traditional disco systems. It also lacks the extreme top end that one finds via the traditional hanging JBL bullet arrays. Both these extremes were first exploited by Richard Long, back in the Seventies, and are capabilities I desire to add to my mobile system. That does not mean that they are utilized at all times. It means that they are merely another tool to be used by the DJ to enhance the performance. Rather than change the core clarity and efficiency of my system, I hope to grow my systems potential bass response, in the 20 80 hz range, in order have the flexibility to playback and creatively enhance any source material. Agreed. The DTS-20 may actually be able to reproduce much lower than any of the other systems. But if the source material only goes to 20 22 kz, with lots of energy in the 25 60 hz range, reproducing 12 20 hz is a waste of resources.

About 30 years ago, I purchased four BO$E speakers as a small portable system. My larger system was four University S-9's; sort of a pre-cursor to the La Scala, folded plywood horns with the Cobraflex and a tweeter. I thought the BO$E were 'ok' until I heard the Klipsch Industrial Heresy's at a buddy's store. They blew me away. I bought a pair and started using them...... Meanwhile.... A buddy was doing a bar on the weekends and asked me to fill in. He used BO$E, so he figured I would be a good fit. I told him I didn't use the BO$E stuff anymore and asked him if the Klipsch stuff would be ok. Sure, he said. The next week he was kinda pissed-off. Asked me why I brought such a "big system" in and thought I was trying to undermine him. I laughed and told him where to audition the Heresy's. He bought a pair. He still uses them for weddings. BO$E BLOW$ Klipsch Heresy Industrials. Biggest little speaker anyone ever made....

No. I have heard Turbo systems and they do get loud. LOL<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> But as my system has grown, over the years, it has been an accumulation process. It started with the Heresy's. Then the La Scala's were added. Next, a pair of EAW SB180s added to the bottom. As gigs got bigger, I added the EAW FR-253s and another pair of SB-180s. I guess I have the coverage that I need. Im now looking to enhance the edges of that coverage. I have stockpiled a bunch of JBL tweeters in anticipation of extending the top end, through overhead arrays and a Richard Long type of crossover that can pump those arrays. This thread is an attempt to expand the bottom end, in a modular fashion, so that it can also be pumped. I dont wish to alter the basic core of the system. I just want to add to the extremes. If there is a Turbo product that would do that, in a modular fashion, let me know. I like the idea of 2 or 4 subs that can be used with the Klipsch stuff OR the EAW stuff OR both. In this case, smaller is better as they can then be summed.

I called Danley and spoke at length with 'Mike.' He was very supportive of the DTS-20 as a sub.... until I addressed the use of my equipment. When I mentioned DJ work he immediately shifted gears and recommended their TH-115. Chief reasons were portability and efficiency. The TH-115 weighs 120 lb, has wheels, and has a 103db sensitivity. The DTS-20 weighs 206 lb, has no wheels, and has a 95db sensitvity. Max output from the DTS-20 is 122db and 125 peak; the TH-115 is 136db max and 141 db peak. The TH-115 seems to whip the DTS-20. The EAW BH760 weighs 253 lb, has an available castor pallet, and has a 107db sensitivity, with a 139 db max and 145 db peak. Large numbers from a large box. The TH-115 would appear to be 'roughly' one/half of the EAW BH760 in weight and output. It also is designed much as my EAW FR-253's are, with castors at the back for tilt and roll simplicity. It's 1/2 inch shorter, 2 inces narrower and about 10 inches deeper. It would appear that, sans any new suggestions, the Danley TH-115 might be a nice choice, as it approximates the high-output EAW when multipled, yet is easily handled in the smaller packages. I remain open to all suggestions and thank those who have weighed in, so far. I look forward to learning more through this forum. I started out with a guitar amplifier with a microphone and the High School's record player, in 1961. Still learning........

Yet another great option. It's an EAW product so it links nicely with the FR-253's and SB180's. Being a horn, it meshes nicely with the La Scala's. Using two 12-inch drivers, it (potentially) moves more air than the Danley. But the Danley's claim-to-fame is longer excursion. So, maybe not...... As far as weight is concerned, a bass bin weight of 250 lb is not a killer. After all, you don't HAVE to stack them. LOL So far we have four pretty damn good options: 1) Dual 18-inch Direct Radiator ~ Klipsch KPT-684 2) Dual 15-inch Folded Horn ~ Klipsch KPT-MWM 3) Dual 12-inch Folded Horn ~ EAW BH760 4) Single 12-inch Tapped Horn ~ Danley DTS-20 There seems to be a technological and chronological progression to these. The trend seems to be towards smaller / fewer drivers w/ more efficiency as a by-product. Now, if we could just alter the laws of Physics so we could build a sub with a 6-inch driver... in a 50 lb box... that pumped out 140db... with a 100w amp... LOL Isn't Bose working on that?

I went to their website and found an interesting White Paper download. http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf While only using a single 12-inch driver, the Danley sub does offer a different drumbeat. I will have to learn more about this product / technology and how it best loads into a room environment. While the term "Tapped Horn" is pretty damn 'new' to me, it seems to me the design fundamentals been around for a long time. I guess I need to learn more..... such as how the Danley compares to traditional subs in head-to-head competition. Guess I'll have to ask them.

Looking throught the website, it appears there are two possible Klipsch Solutions. 1) The KPT-684's (dual 18" direct radiator) are a possible solutiom. With a 105dB @ 1 watt/1 meter rating, they would match nicely with the La Scala's. With a 48.5" X 31" footprint, a pair would be a perfect base for four La Scala's. Likewise, they might work very well with the EAW 253's, as direct radiators. I do love my La Scala's, but the EAW 253's are a nice one-box solution, with wheels no less. 2) The newer KPT-MWM, dual 15", horn-loaded woofer is another solution. As it's a horn-loaded design, I would expect it to be a bit more efficient than the 684's. A set of castors on the back and we might have a winner. The 684 appears to be a bit of a compromise, designed to fit in a confined space behind a threater screen. The MWM is larger and heavier, but less of a design compromise. I'll just have to crank some delay into the rest of the system to make up for that 10-foot horn length. Are there any Klipsch dealers who actually have either in stock and might audition them? Or are we on our own when it comes to making a choice? Back in the Seventies and Eighties, Chujko Brothers of Pittsburgh had everything from Heresy's to an MCM ready for audition. Sadly, they are no longer a Klipsch dealer....

OK, first post as a member..... I have a mobile system that is composed of Klipsch and EAW speakers. I have four (eight cabinets) Klipsh Split La Scala Industrials in Black Fiberglas, two Klipsh Industrial Heresy's, two EAW FR-253's and two EAW SB180's. I mix and match speakers to fill various needs. Everything has been used at once, Heresy's used as DJ monitors, EAW's used as short-throw and center fill, La Scalas as long-throw. Amps are Crown DC-300's, MA-600, MA-1200, MA-2400, and MA-3600vz's. Mixers are Bozak 10-2DL, Rane MP/XP2016, Rane MP-44. Playback units are three SL-1200 turntables's and four SLP-1200 CD player's. DSP is DriveRack. I would like to expand the bottom end. I have used the entire system in conjunction with a Levan bass bin, out of the Paradise Garage. Sounded great, but was not my equipment and was not really portable. I'm now looking to source a pair of subs that might replace / augment the SB180's. Hopefully something smaller than the Levan.... I'd like two subs for flexibility, in case I need to run one with the EAW system and one with the Klipsch system. I am not limiting myself to either Klipsch or EAW. I am looking at Bassmaxx, for example. Any ideas out there?