ClaudeJ1

Yes we are 104-113 db per watt, depending on the horn driver combo. LOL.

Should have known from the devil mask you put there, but I needed to be sure. LOL..Peace to ya fellow Klipsch Head.

I don't think W.C. was planning on selling anything except more 402's since Martinelli's are rare, no longer made, and quite a gorgeous, great sounding horn on his even more rare (is that redundant?) Golden Jubes. K-402's are like the old Doritos commercials: "Don't worry, we'll make more." .......in lower volumes to play at high volumes of course.

OK, I'll be checking in. Glad you like.

How about simply "Heavenly?"

You can get trashed out burned out EVM 15 L or B (they are the same) frames/magnets real cheap (about $50) and have them reconed for less than $200 per pair..............I know a guy.........

Claude, could you say more about the sub issue? A good tapped horn will limit you to about 60-70 Hz on the top end, so you will have to EQ the LaScala below 100 hz. too meet up with the sub. If you are using a direct radiator sub or a Tuba HT, you can probably just cross at 100 Hz. Your room and placement will dictate much of this.

Correct, but the midrange and mid bass detail is nothing short of incredible.........a good trade.........you can get the bass back with some EQ with a Behringer and bi amping. You should be using PEQ anyway to flatten the inherent 130 hz. peak in all LaSclas anyhow. About -7db.

In my case, a tapped horn sub has had a domino effect on my bass, so I'm able to use a bass horn that is cheaper and has fewer folds than a Jube, so the extra expense and cabinet height is not necessary............see my Avatar. As a result I cross over into the 402 at a much lower frequency than the rest here, with a scary amount of transient response from 320 Hz. on up, because I'm not going through the bass section, which, while having the lowest moving mass possible with the strongest magnet, it's still a cone going through a labyrith as opposed to a staight axis horn............superior, in my opinion. Next step for me is a straight axis horn of my own design to replace the FH-1...........no jubes for me because of the tapped sub. So the bottom line, is, knowing that W.C. has some good ears and good program material, I'm confident of the outcome of his testing, once he gets it all set up right for his taste.

I actually find this post humourous, in the sense that we are a passionate crowd. Having owned 2 Khorns and a LaScala in the classic 2 channel with mono phantom center for over 30 years, I got the bug to upgrade about 5 years ago. I have owned every type of older and newer heritage Klipsches as well for home and commercial use. When I sold my Khorns, I even had MWMs "stacks" with JBL and EV drivers on top with various mid horns. Starting with JBL baby cheek tweeters on top of my Khorns I evolved into what I have now, which rivals or even beats out a Jubilee 2-way. Now that I own a pair, I can say with hearing and measurements that the K-402 horn lens is the best midrange/tweeter horn I have ever had. All of the other fanatics here have this in common as well, regardless of a Khorn, Jubillee, LaScala, or MWMs, or double 15" BR bottoms, the common denomiator is the K-402 with different drivers. All of them have also required an active or passive balancing network with mono or bi amping. I prefer bi amping passive or active, because there is a differnce in sensitivity between bass and mid by about 5-6 db depnding on the driver used. There are other settings besides Roy's. ALL bass horns need some sort of EQ to flatten out their inherent peaks........this is a modern improvement which makes a huge difference. Even the latest factory built Khorn has introduced a pretey fancy network for the bass section vs. the old AA. Some people are still blown away by the traditional Khorns, understandably, but when you consider that the Jubilee bass bin is flatter, has better transients (two motors instea of one), lower distortion, better bandwidth, and better polars, it hits all of PWK's principles on all cylinders and Paul himself would have wanted the Jube to be made pretty and sold as the flagship. Alas, it was not be, except for those fanatics who insist on making it happen because it is truly better by anyone's standards..................Even JBL fanatics who have actually heard them.

I remember getting a similar effect when I tried K-43 woofers in my LaScalas years ago..........higher BL product tipped the response upwards and thinned the low end a bit more..........a worthwhile trade IMHO. So now I have "cheap Scalas"......Peavey FH-1 bins (more solidly built, larger, and superior when modeled in Hornrespt BTW) and did the upgrade there. I was trying to go for an even more extreme BL product and I got about 4 db Higher output at 400 Hz. from the EVM's vs. the old K-33's.......measureable and VERY audible. I'm using a Behringer to flatten the inherent 140 Hz. peak in these stubby horns while boosting +7 db at 63 Hz. before rolloff to my tapped horn sub at 60 hz.via my receiver Audyssey setup. Not only is midrange detail exquisite, expecially on female vocals (piano guitar, sax,, etc.), but every bass not is clear and distinct to a scary because the super light cone and frikking huge magnet improves the transients to an amazing degree. Those who like the "fast bass" in a LaScala will be licking your chops with this upgrade.

For those who use a subwoofer with your LaScalas, I highly recommend you get a pair of EVM 15L or 15B woofers. The increase in micro detail in the midrange and the midbass definition will astound you. It's Dr. Bruce Edgar's favoritewoofers for horn loading. I am a fan for sure. For those without Subs, don't mess with your LaScalas unless you want to add one.

It was the intro to that song when I first heard the Jubilee's and right after that initial (kickdrum?) I smiled to myself and said "THAT is the sound I've been looking for" and ordered them the following week. So, that listening test took all of what, 30 seconds? For the record, gentlemen, that is NOT a kick drum it's a sub-harmonically sythsized bass from a pickup in a CONGA DRUM. The DVD Video (Hell Frezzes Over) clearly shows this. It is great demo because a good horn setup will pick up the high frequency resonance on the second hand strike on the edge of the head........very distinct shift in timbre, which many non-horn speaker/room anomalies will blur to the point of non-detection. It's one of my tests as well.

Of course, I know that, you know me better than that and vice versa. I was not being critical of your methods at all, just trying to cheer you on to what I think IS optimium for that horn/driver combo.......you are so close!!

Well, the DX 38 with the full tilt boogie PEQ will make a HUGE difference vs. "effectively generic" passives" with the wrong Xover point. You WILL be blown away over the difference, expeically since the bass bin is also EQ'd HAH!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

Now THAT sounds like a very cool toy to play with, now that you have speakers that start to come alive below 60 Hz. (the disco thump frequency).

In Vol. 8, #1, July11, 1967,in the last paragraph, Paul Klipsch identifies the problem that has persisted with RCA line level connectors, that still exist today. Namely that the ground is disconnected before the hot, which puts out a square wave that acts like a hammer blow to all the voice coils, almost guaranteeing failure in the most fragile voice coil...........the tweeter. I believe this was the main reason that the AA network was created with back to back Zener diodes to prevent K77 replacments. When I was in PWK's home in 1985, he walked into the back of his equipment closet and started unpluggin and plugging in RCA connector to swap out some inputs. There were some squeals to be heard fromthis process theough his Khorns and Center Belle. But the funniest part was PWK swearing about it the whole time %$#@$#%!%%$#@%$@%$. Quite a funny memory for me when I was still a kid paying a visit to his idol.

I really think you will need option 3 here. You have way more power than you will ever be able to use. Those subs will scare strangers with the right movie. For music, I would cross them at 50-60 Hz. since the Jubes roll of there a bit. Get ready to discover the super low bass that's been missing from your setup, but you will be hard pressed to find music that takes full advantange of true sub bass.

It doesn't matter where you put them. The sub bass from 12-20 hz. from TWO of those things will go through concrete walls. I use a single LAB 12 in my "coffee table" TH sub. It's got a smaller voice coil than the TWO drivers in each of your DTS-10 cabs (you have 4 beefed up drivers total). You also have a 24 foot horn path, or thereabouts. I thinks the DTS-10 is the best sub you can get for home, period. I agree with Chris about decoupling the sub from the room as much as possible by moving the mouths closer to you, which is what I have done in my small, attached condo apartment.

Studer/Revox used the same super high precision motors. Built like a tank and a real thing of beauty, this piece of machinery. Don't forget to clean the heads first. LOL.

The easiest and cheapest way to play with Xovers is the less than $300 Behringer DCS2496. It is very easy to configure using a combination of presest and settiings from it's mini graphics display on the front panel. You can even make changes while the music is playing and hear it immediately. I would highly recommend you go that route for playing around instead of Mini DSP and others, which have to be programmed wihtout conveniences.

It's a matter of necessity and cost. Since I'm not blasting through a move screen, I don't need a "tweeter" with a 2" throat. Quite overkill for home, JC's setup notwithstanding. Since I wanted to drop my height stack down, the biggest to get rid of was the MB-1 midbass. THAT was a big hole to fill, sonically speaking, so those duties are now shared between the FH-1/EVM15L woofer and the 402/1133. BUT in order to do that, I needed to get the Xover point to 320 Hz.......Done.........Gread midbass and midrang. But, the 1133 dives at 5K, so I needed a tweeter upgrade to replace TWIN DE-10's, which wasn't the best way anyhow. So I spent the money on B&C DE-250's. They are the "poor man's 1" TAD." I was able to put the money from the sale 4 big horns and drivers towards what's in my Avatar now AND improve performance, since it moves all the drivers closer together. I may, in the future try to use the Faital Pro driver in a 2-way, but for now the 3-way is an improvement over the 4-way..............all on a tight budget, which is the immovable force here....................otherwise, I would probably go with a 2-way TAD bur $2500 is too rich for my blood for what I would consider now marginal improvment vs. what I have. But I applaud those who have gone that direction. I heard Rigma's and the cymbals do have LIFE.

In my case the 402/1133 WAS in a theater with a 510, which I didn't buy because they were overkill for home use. Besides, with the DE-250/QSC horn combo, I get a "TAD-like" top end with broader dispersion angle than I would in a 2 way, since my room is small and I sit way closer then Mark or JC.

But if you don't EQ up the falling response of a compression driver that uses TI, and filter it out in the network, then it has no audible effect. The problem range is up high, no down low. the Klipsch 1133 driver is titanium and performs more like a phenolic with better transients where it counts...........the midrange.