ClaudeJ1

It doesn't matter where you put them. The sub bass from 12-20 hz. from TWO of those things will go through concrete walls. I use a single LAB 12 in my "coffee table" TH sub. It's got a smaller voice coil than the TWO drivers in each of your DTS-10 cabs (you have 4 beefed up drivers total). You also have a 24 foot horn path, or thereabouts. I thinks the DTS-10 is the best sub you can get for home, period. I agree with Chris about decoupling the sub from the room as much as possible by moving the mouths closer to you, which is what I have done in my small, attached condo apartment.

Studer/Revox used the same super high precision motors. Built like a tank and a real thing of beauty, this piece of machinery. Don't forget to clean the heads first. LOL.

The easiest and cheapest way to play with Xovers is the less than $300 Behringer DCS2496. It is very easy to configure using a combination of presest and settiings from it's mini graphics display on the front panel. You can even make changes while the music is playing and hear it immediately. I would highly recommend you go that route for playing around instead of Mini DSP and others, which have to be programmed wihtout conveniences.

It's a matter of necessity and cost. Since I'm not blasting through a move screen, I don't need a "tweeter" with a 2" throat. Quite overkill for home, JC's setup notwithstanding. Since I wanted to drop my height stack down, the biggest to get rid of was the MB-1 midbass. THAT was a big hole to fill, sonically speaking, so those duties are now shared between the FH-1/EVM15L woofer and the 402/1133. BUT in order to do that, I needed to get the Xover point to 320 Hz.......Done.........Gread midbass and midrang. But, the 1133 dives at 5K, so I needed a tweeter upgrade to replace TWIN DE-10's, which wasn't the best way anyhow. So I spent the money on B&C DE-250's. They are the "poor man's 1" TAD." I was able to put the money from the sale 4 big horns and drivers towards what's in my Avatar now AND improve performance, since it moves all the drivers closer together. I may, in the future try to use the Faital Pro driver in a 2-way, but for now the 3-way is an improvement over the 4-way..............all on a tight budget, which is the immovable force here....................otherwise, I would probably go with a 2-way TAD bur $2500 is too rich for my blood for what I would consider now marginal improvment vs. what I have. But I applaud those who have gone that direction. I heard Rigma's and the cymbals do have LIFE.

In my case the 402/1133 WAS in a theater with a 510, which I didn't buy because they were overkill for home use. Besides, with the DE-250/QSC horn combo, I get a "TAD-like" top end with broader dispersion angle than I would in a 2 way, since my room is small and I sit way closer then Mark or JC.

But if you don't EQ up the falling response of a compression driver that uses TI, and filter it out in the network, then it has no audible effect. The problem range is up high, no down low. the Klipsch 1133 driver is titanium and performs more like a phenolic with better transients where it counts...........the midrange.

This is exactly what I'm doing with my 402's. I have the older Klipsch 1133 (1132 is still same Titanium diaphragm, but different phase plug for 2-way+Shelving EQ) with the conical extension on it, which, because of the extra length, takes the response down to 320 Hz. before rolloff, but it dies at 5K, so it behaves like a phenolic driver, but with the superior transient response of Titatnium. So, as you precisely suggested, I AM using the 1" DE-250 MYLAR compression driver at 5K-18Khz., even though it easily would cross down in the 1Khz range, since it doesn't tank until we get to 700 Hz. Dr. Who sez the plots are similar to Berrylium. Danley and Geddes agree with him (and me) in both measurements AND listening. My next move will be to go all active 3-way AND time align the stack you see in my Avatar. But it sounds great as a passive/active hybrid with no time align for now. I'm thinking the main reason that Roy went with the K-69 is cost (cheaper to buy from Taiwan than use their own Klipsch Made K1133 and 1132). Plus I suspect it may be easier to EQ than an 1132, I'm not sure, but I think it's a cost thing. Spoke to Bob Crites, who now has designed his own passive network for his Jubilees. He's using the K402 with the Faital Pro driver and claims it outdoes it's own specs and can go from 400 to 20 Khz........................lots good choices these days, but I do think the TADS are a good one. The only other choice would be a JBL2446 with the True Extent Berrylium diaphragms, which don't shatter and turn to poison powder when over driven, like the TADs will never do in a home situation (but could with deaf zoned out PA guy). Either way, W.C. will discover some really cool things in the next week or so. I can't wait to read about them.

I think it's the Fairfield Four

Despite the directivity specs, that horn doesn't make the top tier in audio quality in my book....never been a fan of diffraction slots (even when they're big). Btw, Claude...how you liking that QSC tweeter? I'm currently running one of those in my setup - the polars on that little guy are quite good actually and mate extremely well to a 15" woofer. It's the best sounding tweeter I've ever owned. It's like a "mini 402" and the DE-250 rivals the top end of a TAD Beryllium 1"driver at 1/10th the price

I've been saying the same, Mark. Once he hears the 402, there's no going back, especially with Roy's setting on the EV xover. I'm sure you and I would put a lot of cash down on that bet. LOL.

So, in the interest of keeping with this thread and W.C.'s stated goal, I think he should stick with the plan. There's enough of an "apples and oranges" situation since he's testing 5 variables at once: 2 different drivers on 2 different horns with 2 different types of Xovers with different 2 Xover points and 2 different slopes. Let's not add any more "fruit" to the bowl, I say.

I should add that the 402's, with the Klipsch K1133 driver, roll off at 320 Hz., which is where I cross. The EV 640's roll off at 500. they are a good horn, but they don't go low enough for me and I'm using a QSC horn with the excellent DE-250 driver for a tweeter..........I'm very happy with the sound, best I've ever had. I know conventional wisdom says I shouldn't cross them lower than 400 Hz., but I measured about 10-20 MilliWatts of power reaching the mid and tweeter from my amp, so not worries, since I only listen at 85 db nominal or less. Those drivers will NEVER see 1 W of power........neither will the woofer for that matter and it can handle 200.

The HP horns are not that small. they are bigger than your Martinelli's and smaller than the 402. I have a pair if you are interested. I'm not interested in testing them against the 402, even though I own them. I quite happy with the 402 and the EV's will be on Ebay soon.

Well I heard that horn when I was at your place and it is a very fine sounding horn from 800 Hz. on up, no question. However, the 402 will relieve the the duties of the octave below that from the Jube's, and put is right into the throat of a straight axis horn from a nearly mass-less diaphragm as opposed to a pair of woofers feeding a folded labyrinth. Roy said the compression driver wins this contest every time and he wasn't even talking about a TAD, which is the best of the best. The Jube is best from 50-500 hz. and rolls off at both ends without EQ.

I have 3 of them for sale. I didn't have the means to test when I had them hooked up to my MWM stack a few years ago. I remember then sounding pretty good, but I didn't have the means of properly crossing them then. Maybe I should keep one for a center channel in my HT setup.......you got me thinking. As far as the quote you attributed to me, it was meant to be funny, and I hope it was.

On the other hand: "You can't make what you can't measure.'.................Dr. Irving Gardner............via Paul W. Klipsch. I think we ALL need to measure AND listen. Then we can draw our own personal correlation between the two. No speaker can be perfectly flat in a real room.

I have similar philosophy summarized as: "Everyone is entitled to their own ridiculous opinion." LOL.

Well this is good news. Methinks we will see curves or read some interesting words in about a week!!

Methinks I hear aluminum shavings being made on a Bridgeport as we speak. LOL.

If it were me, I would start with the TAD adapter, since Roy worked out all of the EV Digital Xover settings with those. Narrowing at the top end is normal and the numbers quoted by DJK are not bad. My 2360a JBL horn narrowed after about 8 Khz. and so does the K402. You can't expect a horn that can be modified into a Midbass horn with an 8" driver to also have the dispersion characterisic of a dedicated super tweeter in a 3-way setup. You get better phase coherence in a 2-way with a K402, but ALL of them narrow after 8Khz. Unless you went to do endless R&D, I would stick to the TAD version to get to your goal more quickly.

1.4 to 1.5" throat drivers were evolved by EV with their original "big white whale CD horn" in Don Keele's papers. JBL followed suit with smaller throat/shorter throw in the 2447J drivers with bi-raidal horns.............much better HF extension and dispersion than the 2" drivers. Peavey does the same thing with their XT44 driver and you may be able to purchase their adapter pretty cheap. I will look into it further for you. Better just to buy one than make one at this point.

W.C. I'm pretty sure you will quickly see if the hole on the TAD mating to the 402 is a smaller diameter, eh? Mike and Richard are most likely correct.

simply put..................For high efficiency, high power BASS to 20 Hz........

W.C. Make sure you keep us posted on the details of your progress. Left corner of you living room as test site??

Boy, you're not kidding. Going throught all that trouble would make me want to do it out of a solid hardwood or multi layer hardwood lamination of different colors or something. They'd probably be a priceless pair.