Chris A

Well <ahem>...guess where my bass traps aren't, now...

Carl, Thanks for the info! I actually have a problem with where to put mine if I move them (...into the kitchen?...) but you can bet that I'm trying something out tonight. I'm sure that the wife isn't going to be getting in my way to move those things. Room modes are the main issue that I'm currently dealing with. One of the things that I've heard from other audio types that have come by is the much-larger Jube sweet spot vis-à-vis Khorns--note that Jubes don't seem to have the Khorn issues with ceiling and floor bounce. Regards, Chris A.

Mike B., I sent you a PM. Chris

I assume that the "orange label" is the one on the record itself. If this is so, then I have an orange-label Blow by Blow (newly acquired in 1977).

The JBL Hartsfield also looks vaguely reminiscent. Chris

One of the subwoofer web sites that I can't remember now recommends placing one sub at your preferred listening position, putting some lf material on your system, then walk around the room listening for areas where the bass from that one subwoofer sounds the best (i.e, reversing the problem). They then recommend placing the subwoofer in that newly found listening position, then go back to your original (real) listening position to verify the response is now satisfactory. If not, then repeat the process using other locations.

Thanks Mike, I have one of those already-the BS&T album. I also have a Jeff Beck Blow-by-Blow album, although it is a pressing from the 70s (assuming orange-label is different than not-orange-label.) I'll try to compare the BS&T with the same material on CD. On my system at least, one of the things that I have found is that the soundstage seems a bit more compressed in front-back depth and higher background noise levels with vinyl. Granted, I presently do not have anywhere close to the world's best TT/arm/cartridge. Getting a good recording on both CD and vinyl with good source-material depth and stereo imaging has been my issue for A-B comparison. Chris

I don't think the following is entirely fair: If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide. Since you brought it up, what lower frequency did you have in mind (in Hz)? Could you give me an example recording, by title?Chris

You are the second person that I've talked with recently that assures me that vinyl beats digital. While I'm still skeptical, I'm frankly intrigued. The only folks that resisted CDs in the 80s were those that had a stake in keeping vinyl (e.g., TT and cartridge mfgers., direct-to-disk recording studios, etc.). The oft-quoted story of the Emerson CD player driving a Jubilee demo at Klipsch has been cited many times here. I've also heard of folks that have dropped many thousands of dollars on TTs -- good money that could have much better have gone toward buying Jubilees, IMHO. In my way of thinking, if one CD that beats all the vinyl that I've heard, then the issue is probably not vinyl but is likely more an issue of engineering recordings. I'm thinking "Loudness War" mentality and increasingly poorer engineering and industry practices that cater to the iPod generation as the root issues. The same issue may be true of SACD disks, which have been said to be actually inferior to standard CD format in the highest octave (not a good place to be inferior, I might add). The issue is not so much the format, but the engineers used - many SACD disks are said to be superior to many DVD-A recordings, simply because of "who" did the recording, not "what". If you would indulge me here: can you recommend an example vinyl disk that you would recommend that you have heard and that is also widely available for purchase that I might be able to find?

1) Yes - and your point is?2) There are probably much more direct radiator speakers that are also awful. What year did Paul Klipsch start selling the Klipschhorn?

The driver looks to be a P.Audio BM-750D or very similar. Check out the design profile of this unit: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/menu/index.php?id=PAUBMD750&seeimage=YES&img_name=bmd750 Chris

I believe that I've posted this before, but...the things on top of each speaker are bass traps.Chris

Not me - I'm okay with my setup. Someone is probably going to have to bring over something else to show me firsthand before I'm going to be dissatisfied with my Crown XTi's. Chris

By the way, the discussion on this forum: (http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/102421.aspx) highlights one of the problems that Klipsch Corp. has in not pushing the Jubilee as a home product because it definitely would do well enough in magazine rankings if they did. It's a strange world that we live in. If you don't believe that critics run around in little groups, think again: I bought a new book last fall entitled: High Performance Loudspeakers, 6th ed., Collums & Darlington, Wiley, 2005. This book commands a fairly hefty cover price. In it, and I quote, are the author's governing words on horn-loaded loudspeakers: "4.9 Horn Loading: The specialized subject of horns can only be covered briefly in this book [...a book with over 500 pages...], and interested readers are again referred to the bibliography for more detailed information [52]. While the author is aware of the danger of generalization in this subject, in his view, horn-loaded enclosures are not capable of top class subjective quality and most designs are inferior to typical direct-radiator systems. The main reason for adopting horn loading, traditionally employed in public address situations, is to attain a high efficiency coupled with an improved control of directivity, vital considerations when large audiences are to be covered. Studio monitors also exploit high-quality horns to deliver high sound levels up to 120 dB at 1m." I keep this book to remind myself of the human failing of xenophobia in almost any discipline. These mistaken words show an almost inconceivable ignorance by supposed "experts", since Klipsch speakers have been around since the mid-1940s. Remember, this is his 6th edition of the book--he had to be able to sell books from editions 1-5 to get to this point. Clearly, this author hasn’t heard the speakers that we’ve been talking about here—or maybe the author just doesn’t rate speakers like you or I would. Maybe it’s an acquired taste…loudspeaker design...or maybe I'm just ignorant. Chris

But there is one thing you probably do have on me - seeing and hearing them in Hope with Roy showing them off. Too bad "The Gathering" isn't in Arkansas this year...that's a lot shorter drive from here. By the way, only a small portion of what I write at the top is intended to induce pangs of envy: since Roy's efforts have helped out so much in producing these speakers and educating his potential buyers on the "why" of his design (which isn't exactly high WAF), I thought that he should be rewarded for his tinkering which I have benefited from. If there was a way to make these more accessible to the typical audio owner, I would think that would be good. I believe that everyone should have a chance to hear these things: they’ve finally taken away a lot of dissatisfaction that I've had since I was young. I wish we had these things then...then I'd have spent a lot more of my time listening to a lot more music, in a much more engaging way. Cheers, Chris

Ahh, seti:Those look better than mine, at least for now... Chris A.

I began to read the Jubilee threads on this forum in October 2007. Like Bill W., I lacked access to Jubilees for audition. However my past and present understanding of acoustics convinced me of the clear advantages of the Jubilees over my then Khorn clones. Trusting the Klipsch forum wasn’t really difficult since the Jub entries literally went hundreds of pages. When I think about it, I cannot recall any other product about which can make that claim. From order to delivery took less than two weeks—fairly spectacular performance out of Klipsch, especially considering it was the week before Christmas. Setup: When the Jubs arrived, I had a couple of days getting them set up and equalized/ balanced with the two XTi’s I also bought to drive them using active crossover capabilities in the Crown amps just like the commercial theater installations do. Once I did get them setup and got a chance to crank them up a bit, these units “came alive”. Turning them up doesn’t result in facial grimaces or other teeth-clenching exercises like it did for the Khorns – these units just keep sounding better and better until you notice that it’s actually louder than real life, in which case you back the gain down until they sound real when you close your eyes. At this point, conversation is difficult without shouting. Note that I am listening with anechoic XTi settings from Roy’s work in their chamber. I believe this results in a measure of realism that may not be uniformly heard in all Jubilee installations—caveat emptor to DIY electronics folks when using Jubs. My present room is tailor-made for corner horns – about 15.5 feet wide, 9 feet high, 40 feet long, and with two good symmetric corners. Performance: I’ll dispense with any discussions about LF and HF drivers, horn expansion profiles, driver integration discussion, or crossover theory since I don’t think those things are important to the casual listener in any case. Jubilee performance is something that is very difficult for me to characterize since they’ve been a very different experience than any other speakers I’ve heard. First, I’ve given up comparing these units to other speakers–I think of the Jubs as the closest thing to reality that I’ve ever heard. Pianos, female voices, string orchestras, horns, percussion, etc. sound like you remember they should. I don’t set any other speakers on that standard including Khorns or any other high-end speakers. Every day that I get to listen to these speakers is a good one—in fact, it’s usually the highlight of my day. Second, I’ve since become an avid collector of high quality CDs, and many of those have been recommended on this forum. I’m delighted with each small journey that the USPS brings to my doorstep pretty much daily via Amazon Marketplace. I, too, have been busy rediscovering hundreds of hours worth of music: I’ve got a few hundred more to go with all the older vinyl I collected up to around 1984, but never got rid of. Some of that old vinyl doesn’t sound bad now, but no vinyl sounds like the best CDs that I now own. I guess that I should try out a much better TT, but right now that exercise just doesn’t appeal to me. Third, the bottom end is solid, regardless of what anyone might think or say. I’d be hard pressed to want a subwoofer for any music that is playing. Right now, I use a DEQ2496 equalizer to exclusively equalize the low-end cutoff another 4-5-or more Hz. My organ records shake the room like I remember the real thing—maybe because the room they're in is large enough to support LF down to the low-20 Hz range in one dimension. Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of percussive audio effects. My observation: you better get out your wallet to get subwoofers that can successfully and usefully extend the extreme LF performance of these babies-because they do very well as-is, assuming good corner loading. Fourth, these units fill the entire room with a balanced sound image, from front to back and side-to-side. Some areas of the room reinforce lf performance better, such that you can sit at my breakfast table at the back of the room and really rock along with Brian Bromberg’s “Wood” bass with a feeling of realism. Even in adjoining rooms, the sound still feels like a live performance is playing in the next room. This is something which is much different than even the Khorns. Listener Comments: Comments from folks that have come by include the usual: dead silence—no expression at all, “…wow…those don’t sound…like mine”, “my wife will never let those things into the house”, “…how much?”, “you should have seen that fish I caught last month”, “have you ever thought about tubes”, etc. Admittedly, the number of people that have auditioned them has been a couple of dozen vs. probably many hundreds in Bill W.’s restaurant, but the reaction is fairly uniform in my experience – mainly dead silence. Most of the most critical listeners seem to be women, not guys. They seem to open up a bit more with “those are the best speakers that I’ve ever heard… where did those come from?”, “I didn’t know that speakers could sound like that…but they aren’t very good looking are they?”. Younger folks (in their 20s) usually don’t appear to notice anything until their video games start up—then they have a tendency to stick around for a long time playing on the large flat screen TV between the Jubs. I think they just “zone out”, sort of like in a Bradbury story. At the risk of alienating some auditioners that bring their own music for audition, a great deal of what I hear really doesn’t do these units justice. The one time that I was obliged to put some of my demo CDs on, the performance change was nothing short of dramatic- especially for low bass recordings. I now subscribe to the theory that you should listen to new music when you audition new speakers, even if it is mixed in with music that you are already familiar with. I hope some of this might be useful to those that might be thinking about Jubs. Respectfully, Chris A. (This is a second thread on this general topic).

That's interesting - I've found the same thing actually. I thought my waning classical interest was related to the lack of an "in the room" feel that smaller venues like those of blues and jazz have. Maybe it's also related to the large number of mediocre classical recordings that really don’t distinguish themselves from each other (…and this, coming from a former music major…). Note that I still play classical recordings, just not as many now. I have a row of classical vinyl that I collected in the 70s and 80s, but I really don't listen to them much. I’ve always been a sucker for organ, but maybe that had something to do with my mother’s Masters work (organ performance) in the 1960s. I listened to a lot of Bach and Buxtehude up close as she practiced many hours per week. It’s like they say – if you get ‘em early, you’ve got ‘em for life…

I do have a notion: all of us to some extent use our old music to cling to preferred memories. Anything that might distance us from those pleasant memories of the past, well, might not be welcomed. Some folks just might need to connect more tightly with those memories than others. Any other notions? Chris

Can you draw a picture of your HT setup, i.e., where the speakers are and where the listening positions are? Also, how high is your ceiling? Is your 15x15 HT walled off from the rest of the 30 x 15 room? Chris

Well, The score to this moment is (apparently): Nine have essentially agreed that their tastes have changed, probably due to the quality of their setups, Two have said no, their tastes haven't changed Two are "maybe's" But that isn't the whole story: two have ascribed their change in tastes to "maturity" and one more has mentioned that it is basically a combination of increased rig quality and "maturity". You might ask, "why did I ask this question”? Well, one of the fellas that I have talked to about my change in music preferences expressed concerns that his tastes would change too when he got new speakers (and I'll let you figure you which kind of speakers I'm talking about...). This surprised me to no end—why would someone be concerned that their musical tastes might change if they got new speakers? Maybe there is something to this idea of “maturity” and changing tastes, but maybe that taste change is connected to the improved quality of sound. Any opinions here?

...when you significantly upgraded your system, i.e., acquired much better speakers? I find myself listening to jazz, blues combos and small groups but my taste in rock, etc., declined rapidly probably due to the lack of dynamics and musical "realism" on much popular material. I also find myself listening to "live" classical recordings of the American- versus European-engineered taste. Did this happen to you? If it didn't, what did your tastes change toward? Chris

The Soular Energy album is very nice, indeed, but the Bromberg "Wood" album is outstanding, at least on my setup.Chris

I understand.I buy a lot of CDs from Amazon Marketplace on a monthly basis...it's addictive... Chris

...this being Texas, and I believe that I offered a deal... What's yer answer there, cowboy? "Kia" Chris