Klipschguy

CC, I'm experimenting with a 12dB/octave slope for the tweeters in the Heresys in lieu of the tap mod to see which sounds better with my speakers. I'll let you know how it turns out. I just know I can't listen to that tweeter in its stock arrangement. Also, J Harris, I saw on Audioasylum.com that you have 10uF caps across your mids and tweeters! With the high impedance autoformer, which makes your squawker and tweeter look like high impedance drivers to your amp, your crossover frequencies must be very low for both drivers. You might want to try the tap mod with your stock 2.2uF caps (although I fully recognize it still may not be the solution your looking for, like in CC's case). Keep us posted! Klipschguy

Sorry, I don't know the specs on the CTS K33P - great sounding woofer though. Klipschguy

J, The sound your describing is nothing like my Heresys. With mine, strings and particularly piano are full, open, acurate, and clean - much improved from before. With classical and jazz they sound best, with rock a little lower on the list - because of the bass I speculate. Mine do not sound dry and are still by many standards still a bright speaker, but definitely midrange foward - which is distinctly "that Klipsch sound." Oh, by the way, my room is tile with area rugs and fabric upholstery furniture. Did you change your crossover in other ways that may be affecting your sound? Remember, mine do have different mids and X-overs. Anyway, I hope you get it figured out. Also, make no mistake, the Cornwalls are great, well balanced speakers that have a fuller, more room filling tone when compared to the Heresys. Everybody likes the Cornwalls who owns them. If you have a big room and can corner load a pair of Cornwalls, you will love them. Heresys tend to be a little frustrating to Audiophiles (myself included), Cornwalls tend to make you smile everytime you turn them on - even after 10 years of use. (Plenty of opinions on this BB about Cornwalls). Klipschguy

J, Glad you figured it out - really pretty easy mod, (and sounds like, thankfully, easily reversed). The Heresy is a good speaker, but definitely has some compromises - sounds like yours can't be reconciled. I like my Heresys, but mine are used in a secondary system, not my primary - which makes for a big perspective difference. Anyway, have you listened to some of the biger Klipsch? They might be more of what you are looking for. When I'm doing some serious listening, I always use the Cornwalls which, in my humble opinion, are sonically pretty close to a no compromise speaker. Klipschguy

J, One more thing, if your a little uncertain about whether or not you have the connections right, just try the speakers out on an inexpensive receiver or boom box before using your Bryston, Krell, or MacIntosh amp. Really, the speakers are safe no matter how they are wired up. The mod is quite simple, tap 3 tweeter lead hooked up to tap 2 on the T2A - no sweat, just 1 wire. (Sorry if I seem to have cold feet, I just have visions of somebody doing something insane like twisting the input leads together and then hooking up their $3,500 amplifier). Klipschguy

J, I just went over your diagram and compared it to the one for my E type I got off this bulletin board. Our crossover diagrams are exactly the same except for the following (provided the information you gave me is correct). 1) yours has a 33uF cap across the pos and neg leads of the woofer 2) yours uses 2.2uF caps instead of 2uF caps, but they are in the same postion in both circuits. 3) In my X-over the SQUAWKER and TWEETER are both out of phase with the input and woofer (the pos of the tweeter and squawker are hooked to the neg input). 4) In your E-2 X-over, the TWEETER is out of phase with the input, woofer, and squawker (the pos of the tweeter is hooked to the neg input). You should copy down the E type diagram at this site, make the above changes to the diagram (very simple - the diagrams are almost identical), double check your new diagram visually by tracing each lead and comparing to your E-2. Now you should have a good wiring diagram for future reference. ...Now onto the mod. In your E-2, the neg of the tweeter is hooked to tap #3 and the pos of the squawker is hooked to tap 2 - same staggered configuation as mine, just the squawker and tweeter are out of phase with each, where in mine they are in phase. So in your case, yes, move the neg tweeter at tap 3 to tap 2, which is shared by the positive side of your squawker - double check and trace the wire back. If you hook directly to the T2A there is absolutely no danger taking the tweeter lead from tap 3 to tap 2. JUST MAKE SURE YOUR TAKING THE TAP 3 WIRE AND MOVING TO TAP 2. If you are going to loosen the screw under the pos side of the squawker to put the wire from the tweeter under it - be sure, as a precaution, to trace the pos side of the squawker back to the T2A #2 tap. TRIPLE CHECK IT, IF YOU HOOK IT UP THIS WAY. By the way, stay away from tap 0, I don't think it's involved in the T2A attenuation circuit - hook up here and I think you'll get a dead short. One last thing. This mod is quite simple and staight foward, but requires some basic wiring knowledge and common sense. You do this mod at YOUR OWN RISK, so make sure you double check everything and even use a meter across the input leads before listening tests to make sure your not shorted. Keep us posted. Klipschguy

CC, You might want to give the mod a few days to see how you like it, if not switch it back - won't hurt my feelings and no harm done to the speakers. I do realize the mod is pretty dramatic. However, to me, the voicing of my Heresys now sounds "bang on" compared to my Cornwalls - which definitely have a mellow, midrange foward sound (I did a bunch of A/B comparisons with all tap settings). My Heresys before the mod sounded good, they were just "brassy and bright." I much prefer the new sound, it's really what I'm used to after so many years with the Cornwalls, but everybody has their own sound they like. Definitely, let your own ears be the judge. Klipschguy

J, The T2A looks just like a transformer and is mounted to the crossover board (not to be confused with the woofer choke/inductor). By the way John, excellent explanation regarding the T2A function. You will notice on close inspection of the T2A that it has small numbers printed next to the taps where the individual wires are hooked up. The LOWER the number, the GREATER the attenuation of the driver, be it squawker or tweeter (woofer doesn't use the T2A). IF your crossovers are like mine, the neg lead of the squawker will be hooked up to tap 2. The tweeter negative lead will be hooked up to tap 3. My mod is simply move the neg lead of the tweeter from tap 3 to tap 2 (which is also used by the negative lead of the squawker in my E type balancing network). This will serve to attenuate the tweeter output, but will not affect the frequency response of the tweeter. Just replacing your caps won't do much to balance the highs and mids. Really, the stock oil filled caps are pretty decent. However, adjusting the taps will have a huge impact on the balance. It sounds like you have nothing to lose after reading your last post. Crank down the level of that screaming tweeter and see if your highs, mids, lows and sound stage don't improve dramatically - mine did. Keep us posted. Klipschguy

J Harris, I did a search here on the E-2 crossover. I can tell you one difference already from reading the posts and that is the woofer X-over in the E-2 uses a 12dB/octave filter instead of a 6dB/octave like in the "E" (evidenced by the 33uF cap across the woofer leads). You have obviously been tweaking your X-overs from the posts I've read. A few questions. 1) what driver components do your Heresys have? 2) are your tweeters too bright? 3) does your X-over have a T2A? Klipschguy

Not sure about the K-53 mid and the E-2 crossover. However, this tweak is more of a tweeter modification, not squawker. The mod specifically addresses the K77/K77-M tweeter output and attenuates it relative to the other drivers. Somebody else out there may be able to tell you how similar the wiring of the E and E-2 crossovers are. Anybody? Klipschguy

Hello Jim, When my brother bought his 1976 Cornwalls, one of the woofers had been replaced with the K33-E instead of the proper K33-B. I don't think it's a huge deal, he just wants the original type woofer. Thanks - I really do appreciate you asking. ...K33-E, K33-B Qts - .633, .39 Fs - 27.99, 34.46 Vas - 12.11, 10.64 SPL - 92.30, 96.6 Klipschguy

Clint, Man I laughed hard when I saw that Bose line. Have you ever read the reviews of the Bose 901's on Audioreview.com - serious comedy. Klipschguy

I think your right. People these days, in general, are not too enthusiastic about a big pair of speakers. I'm really not surprised the big old Klipsch speakers don't sell too well. In general, people always seem to be more into the latest craze and tend to think of a fine pair of K-horns or Cornwalls as dinosaurs from another era. I have, on the other hand, brought more than several people into the Klipsch arena - now they are believers too. The few, the proud... I personally love the big Klipsch - maybe I'm stuck in the past. Long live the Heritage Klipsch. Klipschguy

In the movie 9 1/2 Weeks, wasn't the stereo used in a scene a MacIntosh stack with a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls? I saw the movie a long time ago and just can't remember.

If my wife liked the sound of planar speakers better than horns, would this be an irreconcilable difference?

Well, it sounds like I have my Heresy crossovers set up nicely just the way they are - heck, I'm happy, they sound great. An upgraded, well designed Heresy network project (you know like those "ALK networks") might be worthwhile, but Man I know what it's like to be spread a little thin. Thanks again Al, Klipschguy

Thanks for your quick reply Al. As you know from my bright Heresy post that I feel like the Heresy is too bright, especially in the lower treble. I changed the negative side of the tweeter from tap three to tap two on the T2A and the mod seems to have worked nicely. But I'm wondering if I used a 12/dB octave slope on the tweeter in lieu of 6dB/octave and the tap modification, if I would acheive a better result because the lower end of the treble would roll off more quickly and maybe shut that tweeter up a little bit. I really like the tap mod - the Heresys sound WAY better, but I'm just barking up another tree to make sure I am squeezing all available performance out of my Heresys and making the most suitable correction to the bright tweeters. Klipschguy

Ebay always has a bunch of Klipsch speakers that can be had for good prices - just a matter of finding the speakers you want. You should be able to find a heck of a pair for $1100 - the price of new Heresys.

Greetings Al, The tweeter in the Heresy I (type E crossover) appears to have a 6dB/octave filter - just a 2uF cap. If I put a 245uH inductor across the postive and negative leads of the K77-M tweeter, would it then be 12dB/octave @ 6,000 Hz like the Cornwalls (which have a 2uF cap + a 245uH inductor in the tweeter leg)? Would the 245uH be the right inductor choice for a 12dB/octave filter when used with the stock 2uF cap in the Heresy I? Also, is the stock inductor value in the Heresy 2.5mH, just like the Cornwall, or is it 2.0mH? There seems to be some confusion over the right value. I really do appreciate your expertise in this area and taking the time to answer my questions. Klipschguy

Tom, I think this modification is just what your looking for because the story your telling about the room postions and the tone controls were exactly what I was doing - until recently. The mod is very, very simple. All you have to do is: Note: This applys to the E Type crossover (not E-2 or others). 1)Remove the back - just take out the screws and don't overtighten on reassembly. The wires will still be attached to the back - just leave them alone. 2) Locate the T2A on the crossover. It looks like a transformer and has brown paper wrapped around the core. On CLOSE inspection of the brown paper you will see little numbers by the little taps (0,1,2,3,4,5). 3) The negative lead of the tweeter should be soldered to tap #3 (after it passes thru a 2uF oil filled metal-can capacitor). You'll see the number "3" on the brown paper. 4) Disconnect the #3 tap lead with a soldering iron (or, if you don't have a soldering iron, you can snip it, just leave about an inch of wire so you can reattach it if you don't like the mod). 5) Loosen the screw on the crossover which goes to the negative (white and black wire) side of the squawker (also makes it's way over to the T2A TAP 2) and put the wire under the screw and tighten it up (you will need to strip a little insulation off the wire to get good contact). Everything is clearly marked inside. Note: red is positive, black is negative. !!!Make sure you can trace your hook up wire back to TAP 2 on the T2A - you do not want a short! You can use a meter acoss the terminals to make sure you do not have a short, BEFORE listening tests. 6) Your done. Put the back on and listen to the results. 7) recap: Move tap #3 wire to negative side of midrange on the crossover (this will correspond to using tap #2 on the T2A - check it out when your inside the speaker). Make sure you can trace your hook up wire back to TAP 2 on the T2A! Use a meter across the inputs to make sure your not shorted. 8) post results here when done 9) VERY IMPORTANT: THESE INSTRUCTIONS APPLY TO THE E-TYPE BALANCING NETWORK. MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU HOOK THE TWEETER WIRE UP THAT IT IS EITHER DIRECTLY HOOKED TO THE T2A TAP 2, OR IF IT IS HOOKED TO THE CROSSOVER, MAKE SURE THE TWEETER WIRE CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE T2A TAP2! IMPORTANT NOTE: The E-2 crossover has the POSITIVE side of the squawker going to the T2A, NOT THE NEGATIVE, so if you put the TAP 3 tweeter wire under the negative squawker screw with the E-2 network - YOU WILL BE SHORTED. 10) This modification is indeed simple, but requires some basic wiring knowledge and a little common sense. If you are unsure of what you are doing, DON'T do it, because I don't want anyone to short out their amplifier. Different crossover types are wired differently - so make sure (also somebody may have rewired something in the past - unknown to you). Before you hook your speaker up to an amplifier, use a meter to make sure your not getting a dead short - should be somewhere around 8 Ohms (I don't know the EXACT value, but it's NOWHERE near ZERO). 11) Make mod at YOUR OWN RISK, I am not responsible or liable for your actions. Klipschguy P.S. I have a feeling your speakers are going to sound a heck of a lot better.

Hello Jim, I'll have to try the rewire. I think I remember an old ad stating that the K-horns were wired with heavy guage wire, ...tough to recall though. Anyway, I didn't think you were blunt at all. Definitely a good dialog. I'm just having a good time expressing my biased opinions (although I am really trying to give an honest assessment) to people out there who actually care about good old Klipsch speakers. I try it on my wife sometimes, but she just humours me - poor girl. It goes something like - "good grief, did you hear the dynamic range in that song!?" ... (the reply) "turn it down." Anyway about the Mac, I just was wondering if it intrinsically stunk (which would be hard to believe), or was there something wrong with it. Belles sure are expensive. I wonder how hard they would be to build? Any plans circulating out there? If I had no room for K-horns (which I don't) and I wanted a no compromise system, I would probably get the Belles with a sub. But a man has to have something to dream about (uh,...besides that). As I stated in my first post "the Cornwalls are a beautiful compromise to the mighty Klipschorns." Klipschguy

Jim, I tell ya, the Cornwall is a fine speaker that needs no excuses - very well designed and perfect for home audio. Just look at all the posts here. EVERYBODY who has Cornwalls really loves them. Go to Audioreview.com and see how many complaints you see from that tough bunch. Another thing I like about the Cornwalls is you can use one of those snotty, upscale preamps (be it tube, or solid state) that basically just have a volume control and a source selector switch and the Cornwalls will sound great with excellent balance and great bass. No sub needed. I personally listen to my music in the "bypass" mode without a sub, so the Belles are not for me - not enough bass. If you hook up a pair of La Scalas or Belles without a sub and no bass equilization, man the bass just won't be there and in this particular situation, the Cornwalls will walk all over the La Scalas and the Belles (which basically sound the same by design). Do not get me wrong, I love the Belles and the La Scalas, and set up properly they are quite capable, but the small, folded bass horn is quite compromised when compared to the folded horn used in the Klipschorns. In defense of the Belles though, they really have kick butt midrange and upper bass - that's why if your willing to use a very good sub with these, you can get very impressive results that will exceed the performance of the Cornwalls - read: walk all over. One other thing, all of the Heritage Klipsch have an unmistakable "Klipsch sound" that is quite musical - just each model has its own personality. Let your own ears be the judge. By the way, my brother bought his Cornwalls after spending time listening to mine - he loves his too. Klipschguy P.S. Why does your MacIntosh pre-amp suck?

Al, Two questions. 1)What is the function of the 20uF cap in the woofer leg of the X-over circuit? 2)What is the function of the 245uH choke in the tweeter leg? Thanks for your input. Klipschguy

One other thing. I'm talking about using the previously mentioned speakers without a sub. If you intend to use a high quality, musical sub with a pair of Belles, they will indeed, as Al says "walk all over the Cornwall." Klipschguy

...cool.