anarchist

Nice price...from an authorized dealer. $2724 would of course be better. Lowest price I have seen for entire setup is approximately $2500 from an 'unauthorized' dealer of course. Just do it. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Nice post HornEd. I kind of like it when you take the time to express more of your thinking rather than less of it. I think we agree on the subject but from differing perspectives. When someone asks about a HT and 5.1, I am looking to respond with the best equipment for that specific environment - which is dipoles or WDST as the surrounds. You appear to respond with future growth in mind and 5.1 audio where identical direct speakers are the best equipment. I don't know if 6.1 is the best due to the potential problems associated with a single rear channel but certainly I agree in a 6.1 or 7.1 environment, direct radiators are the best choice. Regarding bass, you again are correct, it deserves its own thread. As bait, I will offer this, I always believe a separate subwoofer was the only way to go. I ended up with a set of KSP400's (as many of us buy when something of value appears) despite my initially not wanting built-in subs. Frankly, the bass these offer is quite good and tight. I, in fact, moved my dedicated sub out of the room as it was more boomier than the dual subs in the KSP400's. It seems cabinet construction has a lot to do with that particular rule - or any rule for that matter. I am now entertaining the thought of Heresys (or maybe Fortes) across the board with a couple of SVS 20-39's. Should be fantastic music and a great HT experience as well. Have to listen to the Heresys with a great bit more of musical genres first - some claim harshness but I have yet to hear it. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Get the SVS. Period. I would also draw your attention back to one HornEd suggested. The Yamaha 3XXX (forget the exact model number) Ed mentioned is a hell of an amplifer and at $600 - 700 bucks is the one I would put my money on. You are talking about a couple of thousand dollars amplifier on the cheap - the others don't compare. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

The KSP S6's were listed as the closest match for a HT utilizing the Legend series of speakers. HornEd, I respectfully disagree with your generalization about surrounds versus identical speakers. HT is still NOT mixing DD 5.1 soundtracks expecting 5 identical speakers. Indeed, the fact we keep moving up the number of speakers is proof direct speakers are not best for surrounds in HT. Wide dispersion speakers still provide the best choice in HT applications. Perhaps when we reach DD 10.1 direct speakers can provide the same ambient sound but at this point they can't. OTOH, SACD and DVD-A are catered to 5 identical full range speakers, and full range does not mean cut each speaker at 80 - that was a THX standard and its applicatibility has long waned. Sound mixers today will tell you the music is compromised if you cut out the lower bass and direct it all to a subwoofer in the front of the room. You have a deep bass sound that starts at the back of the room and pans to a subwoofer in the front of the room - disconcerting and not the intended effect. You give great advice and I enjoy reading your posts, just remember not all 5.1 or x.1 formats can be lumped into one basket and a single, best solution offered. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Guys, Now is time to really make you think. I just recently bought a set of 89 Heresys for next to nothing. These speakers are in fantastic shape, 9.5 on a 10 in my estimation, and solid. Frankly, they look far more durable and are of higher quality than RF-7's or the new Synergy line. But how do they sound? Amazing. My wife, who did not appreciate me purchasing yet another set of speakers, sat down and listened for a few minutes and finally was impressed by sound. KG4's, ok. Rf-7's, ok. KSP400's, ok. Heresys, "those are great." We went from my 'selling them immediately' to 'we are keeping these.' For the first time ever, she was asking to hear additional songs played on these bad boys. I love the KSP400's and love the sound of the RF-7's highs. These Heresys, however, impressed me like no other. I initially thought I am selling everything and buying old Klipsch - great quality, gorgeous cabinets, and freaking incredible music. I am greedy, however, so I will just keep it all and buy more Heritage - no new Klipsch for me...not until I see the quality I want and midrange horns instead of cones. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Go to ubid and buy yourself Reference RP3's with built-in subwoofers for $419.00/each right now. Add the RC3 and RS3's for $900MSRP (easily found much cheaper) and you have a system that smacks Synergy silly for 1838 (if you paid retail for the center and surrounds). Pick up the Outlaw 1050, which has outstanding sound, for less than $500 bucks and you spend $2300. Later on you can add an external power amp to the 1050 and ultimately move into separates. Meanwhile, you have a system that kicks *** for home theater and music. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it. This message has been edited by crash827 on 04-24-2002 at 06:56 PM

Those speakers are shipped to dealers and between dealers. Normal playing 'shouldn't' break a driver loose. Read the quotes in the first message from the guy who has worked at a Klipsch dealer for 7 years. Read the parts where the speakers show up and the parts have fallen off. Do a search on this forum and read the stories about the Legend series and their problems. We still haven't heard from Klipsch and that is what is most interesting to me. How do they feel about customer testimonials such as those and do they have any plans to address the quality issues. Certainly, those kinds of comments don't make for good company PR. Todd, nice price. When I bought my first set from a dealer back in 1989, the salesman actually directed me to come back and purchase the next week instead. Why? The store had regular 50% off sales on Klipsch and the salesman suggested that was the 'real' price you should be paying for Klipsch products. I have never been interested in paying more than 60% of the MSRP since. There are those that know, and those that don't. For 60% of MSRP, Klipsch IS worth every penny. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi Todd, Let me put some dollar amounts to that purchase and value to greed. They were brand new RF-7's which had sustained some minor damage in shipping. A driver was damaged and the speakers had some surface scratches. He bought the speakers from the shipping company, purchased a new driver from Klipsch, and replaced it. Hence, the opportunity to actually look at the interior construction. He had made an offer to sell me the speakers for $700. While I was getting back to him, he got a few other calls and decided he would allow the auction to play out rather than sell them to me for the $700. He sold the speakers for $800. At that price they were a steal but I had already shifted my thoughts to the KSP400's which were a far bigger bargain. Americans trade-off quality far too easy relative to cost. It is a personal decision and many won't care about the degree of quality built into their speakers. I do. I created the post only because many of the issues mentioned with the R series were acknowledged failings of the Legend series and Klipsch claimed to have resolved those issues. It doesn't appear they have based on his findings. Does that mean I shuffle off and buy Bose? No. It does mean I purchase the speakers for a price that reflects their value to me and that is no where close to MSRP. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

It does come down to economics but I disagree with your preceived end result. Companies sacrifice quality for higher short-term profit margins. Greed. I simply do not believe that a $2200 set of speakers should offer the same cabinet construction that dime store speakers offer and that, in essence, is what we are talking about here. Bear in mind a couple of numbers. $2200 vs. $1400. Same speakers, the difference is 'additional' profit the dealer could have made. We are talking a minimum of $800 in profit per pair. This exludes the profit Klipsch makes up front. The fact is Klipsch could increase quality to where it should be and still make a large amount of profit. Greed. I was reading some information from a guy in the DVD player manufacturing business. Discussing quality, he mentioned if they included $40 worth of 'upgraded' parts in the player, they would have to increase the retail price by $400-$500 to cover the various profit margins and markups. $40 in cost = $500 in price? Greed. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

TheEars, This is no way means the R series speakers will fall apart. Will you personally guarantee that with funding to back it up? The first post could let many to think the RF-7 construction is lousy.Its not true,its simply not top notch. I think this argument depends on the value you impart to a dollar. Cheap department store speakers don't simply fall apart either - but they don't cost $2000. The concern should be will that lack of bracing lead to poor sound just a few miles down the road when the cabinets flex a bit more than they should. For $2K, I expect adequate amounts of glue to be used to stiffen and strengthen the cabinets. I expect ports not to stray. I expect adequate bracing to prevent undesired flexing. I expect a veneer that will be somewhat resistent to scratches and allow me to sand minor scratches out of the finish. I expect some science to be used in the quantity and placement of damping material. I expect the grill to be far more substantial than what is on the RF-7's. I don't expect a cabinet that a middle-school student could build in his first woodshop class to be better built than my $2K speakers. I love the sound of the Reference 7 series - I would have bought them, and still may, were it not for my stumbling across my KSP400's. I have recommended them to my friend who is purchasing 3 pairs for his HT. I have also read the horror stories associated with the build quality of the legend series, Klipsch's acknowledgment of those problems, and many of those same design and QC issues mentioned then have just been pointed out to be part of the Reference series. That scares me, particularly after noticing the port on my KSW200 subwoofer was loose due to... poor application of glue. I am still interested in what us Klipsch nuts think and hearing from Klipsch themselves. Many of the 'heritage' guys have long cried out about the diminishing quality. As someone who owns Klipsch and will own more Klipsch, I am very concerned that my $2K is buying speakers that offer $200 quality (I am not talking about sound.) My fears could be easily alleviated by Klipsch extending their warranty from 5 to say 10/15 years. If the quality is not suspect, the increased warranty should have no effect on their bottom line and should not be objectionable. Everyone claims quality, not everyone backs it up. (Bryston does!) ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi guys, Edit! Readers have read though this post and misinterpreted it to be "my" review. It is not. I have made modifications to it to show my statements and those copied from another board. I frequent a lot of boards and came across this thread (quoted below) today. It speaks for itself and I would love to get some feedback from our Klipsch moderators as well as anyone else who has done any detective work. The bulk of the comments are from a guy who sold the Rf-7's in question and I originally though I would be purchasing them - he got greedy and I got KSP400's instead! "Now I know Klipsch is mid-fi and mass-market, but I still expected a bit more out of a $2000+ pair of loudspeakers. 1. The baffle was attached with no fasteners at all. None. Nada. There was a half-as*ed bead of glue on the lower part where the baffle meets the cabinet. As evidence of the poor glue-job, the baffle came off without ripping the fiberboard on the cabinet or the veneer on the baffle. There was very little sealant (silicone) around the baffle to prevent air leaks. 2. The bracing in the cabinet was minimal with a 3/4" brace about 2" long in each corner (as I recall) and a center arched bracing made of the same fiberboard. 3. The much tauted "Monster" cable inside was laughable. It was average 18 gauge twisted copper cable. The crimp connectors were loosely connected to the drivers and would be prone to falling off with much jarring. 4. The damping in the cabinet did not appear to be uniform between the two speakers. It's as if someone folded some carpet padding and stuffed wherever it fit. I would think it possible for some of the padding to get in the way of the airflow to the port. 5. The feet were cheap plastic that appeared to be made by Hasbro. My set didn't come with carpet spikes and I don't know if they are available, but I hope they are better than the feet. 6. The veneer is the sort of veneer you would find on any low-fi or mid-fi speaker in the market. Not terrible, but nothing to brag about. I am not a DIY speaker maker, nor am I intimately familiar with the cabinet making process. But I have had the opportunity to view the insides of many mid-higher end speakers and it appears the build quality of Klipsch is sub-par." A couple of responses from the site: "I guess that's their 'Window pane' framing from the website. Most unfortunate. Pretty much guarantees panel resonances, doesn't it." "They have been building speakers like that for the last 5 years. I've worked at a high end store for 7 years........Klipsch was our low end stuff. We would have cabinets come in where the midrange had come unglued and fallen into the cabinet or ports had fallen off into the cabinet. Magnets have fallen off the woofers, crossovers dangling by the wires..........quality control there has become next to zero. I would say Bose ( hate to say it ) has surpassed klipsch for quality." Pretty scathing comments if you are a Klipsch afficionado and were interested new Reference series; certainly pause for concern. I have long wondered about the build quality and durablity of 'new' Klipsch and this certainly made me worried. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it. This message has been edited by crash827 on 04-23-2002 at 09:38 PM

Hi guys, I have been on an upgrade binge and just bought a set of Heresy II's for such an incredible deal, I couldn't pass them up. Two questions. These do not have the little base that tilts them upwards towards the listening position. Anyone have details on building those bases or would I be better off buying stands? I had no intention of buying another set of speakers after my KSP400 purchase two weeks ago (another incredible deal - my wife is losing her mind and I keep defending myself saying I couldn't pass it up) so I have nothing to hook these up to. Therefore, I am in the market for an amp. I want something inexpensive - or another great deal - that provides an excellent audio experience. SS or Tube, I don't care although this may be a fine opportunity to try tubes if it can be done cheaply. Best suggestions? ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi Shapeshifter, Several of the pre/pro's I am looking at give you full ability to optimize the sound. The Anthem actually allows you to specify dipoles or WDST. The Lexicons allow you to specify delays, distances, etc. to optimize the sound depending on speakers as do quite a few others. It would be nice if all just let you specify 'full towers', 'direct', 'WDST', and the sort so 'novices' could tune their system simply. Those consumed with sound simply need systems that give them the flexibility to adjust the settings properly. My Yamaha, for instance, while a good receiver, does not allow me to adjust the distances to any of the speakers nor does it allow me to remove the delay from the surrounds. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Thought I would jump in with a few thoughts, some are a little off topic to this thread but are related. Setting all to small and directing all LFE to the sub WAS a good idea at one time. Multi-channel audio, however, is being mixed expecting full-range speakers (which means full range not >80hz) at every location. LFE is also used but only for the lowest frequencies. There was an article on this not that long ago and jibes with HornEd's insistence on equal speakers all around but runs counter to the set to small argument. Movies are also moving in this direction but at this point still send much of the bass to the LFE channel. The identical speaker argument for general home theater is flawed in my opinion; a WDST speaker, with the appropriate freq. resp. will sound just as good if not better than a direct speaker provided your processor has the ability to accomodate it. BTW, Yamaha receivers do not. WDST requires 0 delay in processing while direct requires delays; there is also distance to account for but really, it is that simple. Either will work provided you have the appropriate processing. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hogwash. You have the RC-7 which uses exactly the same tweeter as the RF-7's. They are fantastic speakers when driven by a good amp and in conjunction with a good sub. Your RSW10 is too small in my opinion to be of much value to them. Depends on how much bass you want - my friends find the 12 satisfying enough but I would recommend the 15. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Ok. This has got to stop(my wife speaking.) Wife sent me out on a chore this morning with the son. Decided to stop at the music store on the way home and what do I run into? A beautiful, matched, birch set of Heresy's. Curiosity got me so I decided to listen to them. Shazaam. After demoing come Titanic soundtracks, Poe, and 1 Santana song - black magic women (actually first 30 seconds of it), I bought them. The guitar, cymbals and those congos simply blew me away. The deal was too good, unbelievably good, that even though I currently have no amplifier to power them, they had to be mine. My son, bless his heart, said we have to get these (right after listening to 30 seconds of Santana), after initially thinking they would suck just because they were small - he then suggested an appropriate embellishment to circumvent the wrath of mom. She is pissed. I have Heresys. Klipsch should be responsible for my divorce attorney. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

During my listening tests the RSW12 was barely adequate in conjuntion with the RF7's. I would settle for no less than the 15 and most likely would take SVS CS+ over that. That said I have all Synergy Premiere. IF you think an RF7 has bass, try KSP400's. Bada boom. I still want RF7's (the highs are incredible) for my other room but they are far removed from a priority since I got the 400's. The wife flipped over the size of the 400's, I can't imagine her reaction to 6 RF7's. I also want to see if those copper cones get more durable or if everyone continues to have them dent for no apparent reason. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

The amp stage in Denons or any other receiver are their weakest link. Their power ratings are very misleading and are not usually up to the task. You also have less damping control and more crosstalk between channels. Many people are entering the world of separates by utilizing their receiver with real amplication and proclaiming the incredible improvement. The general consensus is a 80 watt power amp beats the built-in 100 or 120 watt amplifiers in receivers. You can pick up a Parasound HCA855 for a few hundred on Ebay and it is a great way to start. Or for a grand you can easily pick up the HCA1205. Then all you need is to add a pre/pro at your leisure. Anthem and Outlaw being great values. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi fini, Right now I have my speaker wire running to one set of posts with all the jumpers in place - full range. I also have one of them wired to the LFE via line in. This weekend I will venture out to get another interconnect so I can hook up LFE to the second speaker. Then maybe we will start playing with the various bi-wire and tri-wire configurations. Boa, I don't know how to tell the date of manufacture on these speakers but the box itself has a date of March 1, 2000. The boxes really look like crap - one is seriously beaten up. I don't know the whole story behind the speakers save they are old dealer stock that was sitting in the warehouse. I stumbled, seriously stumbled, onto these and fortunately got lucky the speakers didn't look like their containers. I have listened to more music in the last three days than in months. I thought my HT was good before I got these but now am just blown away by it. I have definitely discovered amplification upgrades are necessary and a good pre/pro is also in order. (Not because of the speakers but because of crosstalk in the receiver.) I pretty much think I will go with Outlaw but may jump to an Anthem AVM20/Parasound HCA2205 combo. Needless to say, I am now looking for the next great deal to help me make my mind up. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi ttk, A whole system for a grand? Ouch! The towers cost me just about that but they are brand new - of course, the Klipsch boxes have been through the wringer but to be expected from old stock. Klipsch' packing is pretty damn good - the speakers themselves are mint. Anyhow, spent all night listening to the system with a variety of CD's and music styles. I think the speakers are underrated for music use. They have been playing at very low volumes - kids and wife sleeping - and the details (highs, mids, and bass) have all come through along with some instruments and vocals in the background I did not hear before. I assure you I did not listen to my KG4's at these low volume levels cause the sound just disappeared. As far as HT, my son (15) was the best example of how impressive they were. During Jurassic park, he kept looking around as dinosaurs cried out from around the room and feet could be heard moving from LF->Middle->RF->RS. He kept saying 'did you hear that, did you hear that.' He was less than enthusiastic that his mother made him listen to it at low volumes and kept inching the volume control up. This is a kid raised in HT and the only difference to the system was the 400's taking over for the KG4's. I am more than satisfied. I can now concentrate on better amplification and a second system; after the wife takes a chill pill on this purchase and I buy her that damn couch she has been wanting. ------------------ Fronts - KSP 400's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Two channel - KG4's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 The move to separates is coming, I can feel it.

Hi guys, My brand new KSP 400's were delivered today. Called the wife from work and told her to pick me up without the kids cause my speakers were in. She thought I was kidding about the size... Anyhow got them unpacked, relegated the Kg4's and KSW200 to the living room, and connected them speaker level with 1 input into the LFE on one of them. Initial impressions - WOW! I was very worried I would hate them as I have not been overly impressed with the C6 and S6's and the boominess of the KSW200 had me concerned. Hot damn. The matched system came alive and the bass coming out of those towers is tight. Listened to some fav tunes and was pleased - wife didn't want volume too loud - and the bass was just phenomenal. Popped in a few reference DVD's (Fifth Element and Jurassic Park) and was amazed by the sounds I now heard coming from the rear surrounds and the subtle sounds I never noticed before coming from the two towers. The movement of sound from speaker to speaker was simply breathtaking - darts now went from the front channel and flew right over your head. You could hear details that were previously missed. My wife, who thinks my obsession with AV equipment is laughable and doesn't think there is much difference in sound from one speaker to another, actually said ' well, I never heard that bit before ' and then in a bass heavy scene questioned whether the foundation of the house would be ok with these speakers. Big thanks to talktoKeith and Fini who have over the months suggested KSP towers over and over. They were right. I will give some more 'analytical' type feedback after some experimentation with connections and a lot more listening - sorry this post was general and used a lot of superlatives but frankly, I am just stoked. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 04-03-2002 at 11:25 PM

Read some reviews of the new $899 Outlaw 950 vs. the $10K Lexicon MC12 dealing strictly with audio. They can be found on HTF. Then ask yourself if they are better than the rest. The Anthem has the same sound qualities but adds all those features we dream about because of the MC12 at a much lower price. Maybe snob wasn't the appropriate word - it just seems some 'audiophiles' feel great audio MUST come with a ridiculously high price tag or it is just mass market audio for the 'rest' of us. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995

The Anthem AVM20 is currently THE pre/pro to buy. Audio quality that rivals the $10K Lexicons and features to boot. The ONLY thing it doesn't do is Logic 7. It is also one of the most upgradable pre/pro's out there. You can pick up an AVM20 for approximately $2.5K. The ONLY way I would buy a Lexicon MC12 is used and for $3000 and that would be just for the snob factor. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 03-30-2002 at 04:20 PM

Well, I pulled the trigger and bought a set of KSP400's. Hopefully, the wife will be enthusiastic when they arrive unannounced and like them. Hopefully, I will like them as well. Otherwise, there will be an entire Klipsch Synergy Premiere system quickly posted on Ebay. Then I will have to buy the entire RF7 system. This may be a stupid question but did my KSW200 subwoofer just become expendable. I would suspect the 2 15" woofers in the 400's will completely drown it out and make it worthless. Should I go ahead and stick in out on Ebay? - after the 400's arrive of course. Would adding a SVS subwoofer be an improvement over the 400's? ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995

Holy cow, There are that many people who are running XP?! The public is naive - doesn't anyone object to the degree to which this operating system profiles you? Man, oh, man. There is no stopping MS - they have become Big Brother. Be scared, be very scared. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 03-26-2002 at 10:26 PM