Dave A
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Posts posted by Dave A
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4 minutes ago, jason str said:
My grinding comment above should have been explained better, you grind the cabinet a bit and not the driver itself.
The LSI may be a bit different, or just depends how the cutouts were laid out during construction just as every bass bin is just a bit off in measurement.
I think it is safe to say the speakers made before cnc routers certainly have variance at least in the tweeter cut out from what I have seen.
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On 12/30/2017 at 3:45 PM, BEC said:
Well, this is a bit complicated. Originally the APT-50 Eminence sold was the Tonsil driver. So, yes I started out using the APT-50. When Eminence had a clone made of the Tonsil driver, they sent me a sample and it was junk, just plain not usable. So, I contacted Tonsil in Poland and had them make that original driver for me, so I have always used the Tonsil driver. The APT-50 that Eminence sells now is not interchangeable at all with the Tonsil driver. Even the mounting threads are different.
Bob Crites
Bob the one I got from PE the other day was a 1 3/8 18 thread and fit that tap just fine. Did I get an older one and what is the difference in the threads?
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2 minutes ago, BEC said:
The DE-120 is still in production and no plans to discontinue it according to B & C. I received 50 of them today.
Bob Crites
That is good to hear but why do they say discontinued on their web site? Are you the one who cleaned out Parts Express ;D
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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:
The 120 is being phased out? I have a pair and they are easily the best I have ever heard better grab a few pairs before they are gone.
So have you tried the 110's? The problem I have with grabbing a few pairs of 120's is that I am looking for something that people can reliably buy now and for some time to come to go with the horns I am making. I need something more than a part being phased out.
33 minutes ago, jason str said:The Eminence APT 50 actually requires a bit of work fitting into the La Scala as it rubs against the top of the cabinet, a bit of grinding takes care of that and its really not a bad driver overall and you don't have to worry about frying it like the stock K-77 using a first order filter.
I did not have any trouble at all fitting one inside an LSI. I'm with you on this as I thought the APT 50's sounded very nice compared to the stock K-77 and with the extra capacity just removed the Zeners from the circuit. .
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Looking futilely it seems for drivers that will fit the small space the K-77 fits into. I like the APT-50 I have used but read the specs are not "top drawer". The B&C DE120 is being phased out and the DE 110 which is the replacement I available but again I hear complaints that it is not as good as the 120. Past this there are darned few choices and the only other I can find is a Beyma CD1S which no one has veer mentioned. I don't care whether it is threaded or bolt on but anyone have suggestions as long as it functions as a drop in replacement for the K-77?
At some point in time I wonder just how acute our ears are to hear subtle differences with these various drivers. Are there real audible differences or is it the spec charts that cause approval or disdain?
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Those look like the ones for sale for $6,000 a few weeks ago. Has that same lighter color around the doghouse at the bottom and the grille and the shiny finish. At least the guy has realized his original pricing was caraazy.
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Before liberals started taking God out of school and removing shame for bad moral behavior and blaming Christians for all evil kids around here in jr high and up used to bring guns to school and put them in their lockers. They would hunt on the way home and no one cared or worried. What has changed is the empowerment of evil people who have read Sun Tsu's Art Of War and use it against us. They use pedophile jihadi Muslims and socialist millenial dreamers and illegals who want the freebies to help destroy society and the usurpation of Biblical based society to create tyranny with themselves in charge. Sun Tzu says quite clearly that the best victory over your enemy is done by debasing their society. When enough trouble and chaos is created they will ask a strong man in to restore stability and then you end up like Russia or China or Venezuala. No guns first then no freedom of speech and then no freedom. Funny thing is that liberal idiots never read history to find out people like Stalin called them useful idiots and slaughtered them by the hundreds of thousand once their purpose was done. Atlas Shrugged and Orwells 1984 and Robert Conquests The Great Terror should be mandatory reading for everyone.
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On 3/21/2018 at 4:45 PM, blue72 said:
I'm running KLF20s as my mains. I wish someone had all the off-axis measurements for the horns on these things. If they acted anything like CD waveguides, then you could try the extreme toe-in explained in this paper:
http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdfFor now, I'm running mine pointed roughly right at the MLP.
This turned out to be the best thing I have done for listening quality besides buy the right components and the elimination of this theoretical sweet spot on my two channel system. Now anywhere in my listening area is the sweet spot.
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On 3/23/2018 at 5:44 PM, jimjimbo said:
OK, well again, those are asking prices, and not realistic. I see ads all the time for....."La Scala's - $2500!! A new pair of these go for $8000!! This is a bargain!!" Blah, blah, blah. I understand that not everyone knows the market like most of us do here, but when you are buying and selling these types of things at these price points, it would seem to make sense to do your homework? Yes?
Last two I Cornwalls I sold here in Nashville went for $1,200 and $1,250. Crossovers re-capped and nothing else done except make sure all drivers were OK and cabinets re-oiled. Bought for $900 and $1,000. Last La Scala I sold went for $2,000 but it had been refinished and had re-capped AA crossovers to replace the AL junk and that new Atlas driver. I bought it for $1,000 and had to drive 500+ miles to get it though. Guy drove up here from Fl to get it.
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I'm with Emile here. I have a pair of KP-450's and for not much more floor space than Cornwalls you get four times the sound. Well maybe that's exaggeration but of the three Cornwalls I have had all sound boomy big box compared to the effortless output of the 904 type setups.
On 3/23/2018 at 4:36 PM, Coytee said:Thought it merited a repeat
Dittos on the repeat. Home owner stuff just does not come close to the better Pro stuff. Same wattage that makes Fortes sound loud makes these 904's (yes mine is a 450 but the same bass bin and while a different horn one still highly acclaimed) sound huge. Sold a pair yesterday and did not touch a thing except to plug in the 450's and the sound stage doubled with better definition in all ways. Chorus has deep bass and sounds muddy. Cornwalls sound like you are in a box. You never realize this until you have a chance to compare them side by side to something like the 904's.
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7 hours ago, justinsweber said:
I love the sound of the ASD1001B. The DE10 is about all the driver I need for HF.
Really amazing work. The end user to chrome or anodize... I want a set too :-)
Hi Justin, Those drivers are way to big for the La Scalas and Heresy etal drop ins. I did make an adapter plate for an ASD1001B to the horn used in the K-75-79K's. I have had it done for some time and it sits there untested. I am going to send it off with the Fastrac replacement to an engineering type Klipsch user and see what he has to say about them also.
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19 hours ago, Marvel said:
I would say "some" Chinese craftsmanship. They can make a good as you are willing to pay.
The Chinese might start off OK but if you are not there physically in the factory every day to keep them honest they will start cutting corners on you. I know to many manufacturing horror stories about this to think otherwise. There is even a term for it called Quality Fade. The Chinese will steal your intellectual property and make knockoffs in a heart beat and run a third shift you don't know about on your equipment if you don't get in there and constantly be vigilant.
13 hours ago, Deang said:The B&C 120 retains the Klipsch sonic signature without the shrill quality of the K-77. I would be really bummed if they dropped this driver from their lineup.
No experience with the DE110? Sadly it costs more. You like the DE 120's better stock up. http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/BC/DE120
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I bought some of those once threaded internally and it was the crudest casting I have seen in a long time. They are still in my box because I took too long before deciding to send them back. At the very least these would have to be re-tapped or re-threaded. You look closely at that part they show and see the quality Chinese craftsmanship perfectly displayed.
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Dean got me to thinking about how I should approach this whole matter. I think modular plates is the way to go so the basic horn can be used by a bigger variety. This setup now can be used for the B&C DE110 and DE120 pre-drilled to use either on the same plate or the APT 50 with the screw in. Think this may be the last iteration required to suit all needs. This way for those who tinker a new clamp plate allows you to try other things and reuse the horn. In the case of the driver becoming discontinued throw the clamp plate out and get another type of driver. It seems as the B&C drivers are getting the better reviews and their clamp plate is easier to make. My reason for going the APT route first was cost of drivers were significantly cheaper. I believe this will be the last set of changes needed.
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40 minutes ago, Deang said:
When you’re done with this one, work out a solution using the B&C de120 tweeter, which is an amazing driver.
It's on the list. Weren't they going to phase that out and the DE 110 was going to replace it? Seems that I read that somewhere.
6 hours ago, Coytee said:Dave, is the pattern just an ellipse that happens to fit or does it follow any certain profile? (is it a tracktrix (sp) for example)
Working on a kind of Tractix shape.
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4 hours ago, Coytee said:
Dave, is the pattern just an ellipse that happens to fit or does it follow any certain profile? (is it a tracktrix (sp) for example)
This is done with a circle at the bottom and an ellipse at the top and straight sides from one to the other. There is not a whole lot of space to do anything with here although I have also done one with a horn closer to the standard K-77 shape. It would be rectangular in shape but be deeper since it would have to accommodate the extra 3/4" for the motor board. The only "science" behind any of what I am doing is that of observation of existing versions that seem to be well received.
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I was fiddling today thinking about offering customization on these with text or geometry. Have not made up my mind on this since each new one means a whole new machining program. I might limit it to just a handful. Need to figure out a way to fill the grooves with black paint and not be sloppy for it to look good if anyone has an idea on how to do that.
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I like his logic. I have a Ford 2010 Van they don't make anymore. Wonder if he would pay me more for it than a 2018 version.
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I know my KP-450's are a huge step up from La Scalas or Cornwalls and beat the pants of a set of pristine KP115's and 301 II's. It was a bit shocking how much presence these had and the 456's should be even better.
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These are mine so shameless self promotion. Even if you are not a buyer if you are anywhere in the area and would like to just stop in and hear them come pay me a visit. Twist my arm real hard and I might sit down and listen to some music with you. https://nashville.craigslist.org/ele/d/klipsch-pro-la-scala-with/6528552356.html
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2 hours ago, pzannucci said:
Just remember to be careful with beryllium. Hopefully no issues with dust or anything once molded into a diaphragm. .
Yes and I wondered if this is why the perforated metal cover. Some time back I did a job for UAH in Huntsville Al. A past project came up and the guy was talking about a machining job involving Beryllium. The job paid extra for the known hazards and apparently the warning to the wise went unheeded. ALL the machinists later died of cancer and Beryllium is a known severe carcinogen. There will never be any Beryllium diaphragms in this household.
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Amended the ad thanks for the suggestions.
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15 hours ago, wvu80 said:
The irony of my assessment is I LOVE the LSI with the aluminum trim! And with all the really nice quality upgrades they would still have a limited upside because of the Industrial look and the fact that most wives would not let them in the living room.
That would go for Forte's and Chorus and Cornwall speakers also since my number one source for top condition speakers has been WAF rejection of the big ugly boxes. Something I am going to try is brown tinted Duratex with new corner guards on a set or two of Pro speakers. It is kind of cool industrial looking. Maybe I can list it as Steam Punk stuff since they seem to go for that. I do too though not a steam punk. I saw a set of Pro speakers somewhere on the forum that had used a reddish color with plastic guards and it looked pretty good. School color I think was the reason.
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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:
That tweeter assembly you made is tremendous. Does it use the K-77?
No it does not. I looked at a bad K-77 I had with the idea of doing something but decided against it. Those four small screws holding the magnet on to the horn don't have much engagement and anything I did would be heavier than OEM. The other and bigger objection I had was reusing the horn. I never did like the idea of them behind the motor board assuming that rough opening could not possibly help fidelity. Did not want to cut the motor board to front mount the horn either since once you hack and whack values can plummet. The best answer I could see was the eliptrac idea. K-77's are hard to replace as a drop in because there are few drivers small enough that sound good. Bob Crites has his own variant of the APT-50 which he says is made to the original specs whereas the new Eminence ones are of lesser quality. Maybe one day I will get a set from him and see but for now all I can say is these Eminence APT-50's sound better to me than the old K-77's they replaced.
I am probably going to figure out a horn for the B&C DE 120 or 110 too. Aluminum has to be much better structurally than particleboard and it looks much nicer. This would add to the available driver options. Choices are really limited with the space Klipsch allowed for in La Scalas and Heresy's and others.
https://nashville.craigslist.org/ele/d/klipsch-pro-la-scala-with/6528552356.html
Here is the ad you asked about. Perfect timing as Nashville went from no La Scalas for a long time to three sets including mine. Feast or famine I guess but mine sound the best
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Crites CT-125 tweeter vs ALK Eliptrac HF B&C DE120 tweeter
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
How bad is the newer one compared to the older one in your experience?