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Dave A

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Everything posted by Dave A

  1. Looking for information regarding KP-250's is a bit of a problem. What I would like to know is what has actually been done to improve the sound of these. Does upgrading caps from crossovers not yet 20 years old matter? I read of closing the ports to improve the bass but not an actual one where someone has done this. What would be the result if I do this? Would the KP-250 components be a good candidate for building a new cabinet based on the Forte design and if so with or without the passive woofer? Using my industrial La Scalas as compared to the LSBR's I have had makes me wonder. The industrial La Scala is much better to my ears. I have a pair of Heresy II's and they are just ok at best. If the KP250 can be improved to the same level of improvement the Industrials show over the LSBR I would like to do it. I assume all components were tuned to work with each other in the KP250's. What happens with diaphram upgrades to say the Ti ones from Crites? Is there a better woofer for more bass? Does the crossover allow for these types of changes?
  2. Thanks for the comments all. OK rather than going through all these hoops what about just getting the TX 8270? My Quadro M4000 graphics card with four HDMI output ports is a powerful sound and visual creator and the TX 8270 has an HDMI port there for use with a PC connection. Rather than looking into ways to make the TX 8150 work what about the TX 8270 which is designed for this? For my money if I am going to spend half the cost of something designed to do a job to jerry rig doing the job I would rather spend more and do it right. Onkyo says I can run direct from HDMI port on the PC to the TX 8270 HDMI port. Looking at some of these magical black boxes online and holy cow, $200+ for a little black box??? In the for what it is worth category. Using the audio jack from the PC to the RCA jacks to the back side of the TX 8150 yields some strange alterations to lossless and FLAC at times with high bit rates. The USB flash drive direct into the front USB port on the TX 8150 does not do this so clearly in my eyes the RCA set up lacks some things.
  3. I have a new Workstation I want to use as the source for audio with an Onkyo 8150. The graphics card is an Nvidia Quadro M4000 with four HDMI outputs and high quality audio capabilities. Will a simple HDMI to RCA adapter work? Would I be better off looking at a new TX 8270 which has a direct HDMI input set up for a PC already? What I want to do is have high quality audio but use my Workstation as the source.
  4. wvu80, "more punch, a fuller sound, more accurate sound" yes to all. The LSI has K43 woofers where the LS has K33 and yes it makes a difference in the quality of the sound. The LSI was with original crossover components was clearly better than any of the other La Scalas and one of them which also had an AA crossover had been freshly recapped with Crite's supplied caps when I bought it. As far as I know there is no difference in the crossovers. The only difference besides cabinet finish that I know of is the woofer. On the KP 480. I have yet to find a picture like the one I have. It has four 4" round ports cut into the motorboard, one at each corner with tubes fixed to the back side of the ports going back to within 1" of the back side and no passive radiator or slot cut in the bottom face like others I see. I can't find specs for that exact cabinet either but I assume all the KP 480s had to be very close.
  5. John was suggesting all of my industrials which would have been four KP250s, two La Scalas, two KP115s and two KP480s. The subs and KP 250s came from a band/DJ setup. The subs still have original Klipsch dust covers on the speakers but only one of the four KP 250 woofers does and I can't imagine why. I tried the KP 250s with the KP 480s and compared to the KP 480 with the La Scalas the 250s weren't even close. I may try recapping the 250s though since I think they could and should sound better. For all I know everything may need caps especially the La Scalas since they are 37 years old and the crossovers have not been touched on any of these.
  6. I have had a set of AA crossover Industrial La Scalas for a while now. Really liked them but found myself turning the bass all the way down and still not being satisfied. Tried Forte II and Chorus and both were nice but still not what I wanted. Now I picked up a couple sets of KP-250s with their subs one of which was a KP 480 with a ported cabinet and no passive. Tried them out today and found out just how much I have been missing all this time. The industrial La Scalas to me have much better definition than the five sets of LSBRs I have gone through but the low end was muddy such as it was. Toccata and Fugue in D minor never sounded right to me with the three sets of speakers I mentioned above although the Forte II and Chorus were both much better with bass, just not as crisp a sound as the La Scalas. So today I hook the 480s to the La Scalas and get blown away by how much I had been missing. Instead of an attempt at bass or bass but no real clear definition to it I now had superb everything. Discovering that I can leave the bass settings close to neutral and hear all the instruments AND feed my bass desires with complete clarity.This was unexpected and for the first time I find myself completely satisfied with what I hear. I may very well change the caps out later this year as I have been advised this to will make a difference. I feed the 480s and La Scalas with an 80 watt Onkyo and can't begin to get near full output before it becomes painful. It's nice to see things move on the metal table close by. Hard to imagine so much volume from such a little wattage. John Albright stopped in and suggested that with the two 800 watt amps I got with the KP 250s and subs I should set them all up outside and have a yard party I just might drag the La Scalas and 480s to the shop door and have at it one day just to see but I believe I will pass on the rest.
  7. John, while not the same they are 480s and I would think pretty close. May JUN Mar 01 1999 2000 2001 2 captures 1 Jun 2000 - 4 Mar 2001 About this capture KP-480-BX 18" Bass Reflex Woofer With 15" Passive Radiator The Klipsch Professional KP-480-BX is a high-output, bass reflex speaker system that combines an 18-inch (46 cm) woofer with a down-firing 15-inch (38 cm) passive radiator. This unique design produces extended low frequency response and higher output from a smaller and lighter enclosure than can be achieved with more conventional vented designs. Passive Radiator/LF Section The KP-480-BX is so compact because its passive radiator allows the enclosure to be tuned much lower, eliminating the need for long vents that require more room inside the cabinet. At 15 inches, the passive radiator has a much larger radiating area than a typical vent, so at low frequencies, it couples better to the air. The passive radiator even reduces the possibility of woofer over-excursion by limiting the woofer when the system is driven too hard below the tuning frequency. Its specially designed rubberized plastic surround allows up to 1 1/5 inches (3 cm) of peak-to-peak excursion. It can move a lot of air without the noise associated with some vented designs. The KevlarŽ composite passive radiator coupled with the K-49 woofer and its large 96-ounce (2.7 kg) magnet allows the KP-480-BX to produce well-damped and powerful low-frequency output with much less amplifier power. Stackable and Packable The KP-480-BX features a top-mounted stand socket, which can serve as a base for locating the main speakers in the air. By using 1 1/2-inch (3.8 cm) tubing to connect the two systems, the use of a tripod is not necessary. The KP-480-BX compact dimensions make for an easy "truck pack." In fact, 16 units take up less than 2 1/4 feet of truck space. Passive Crossover The passive crossover is a factory-installed option on the KP-480-BX. The KP-480-BX passive crossover is set at 150 Hz with a slope of 12 dB per octave for the woofer and 6 dB per octave for any full-range speaker system connected to the HF output section. Entirely self-contained on the back of a standard KP series input panel, the passive crossover is easily installed by removing the old input panel, unplugging the leads to the woofer, connecting the leads from the passive crossover panel to the woofer and using the old screws to attach the new panel to the back of the box. To use the crossover, plug the full range input into either of the bottom connectors (1/4-inch phone plug or five-way binding posts). Use a jumper cable to connect either of the top two connectors (HF out) to the input of any full-range system (4 or 8 ohms) or a paralleled pair of 8 ohm speakers. The KP-480-BX passive crossover will even operate with woofers alone, without any load on the HF output section. The KP-480-BX passive crossover allows you to add a subwoofer to just about any system without the complications and expense of bi-amping. The design of the crossover allows maximum coupling of the subwoofer and full range enclosure. The slower roll-off of the HF output ensures you get the most from the woofer in the full-range enclosure before it crosses over to the subwoofer. It also prevents signals below the box tuning frequency from reaching the full-range system, increasing power handling and reducing distortion in the mid-bass region. Architect's and Engineer's Specifications The loudspeaker system shall be a subwoofer consisting of an 18-inch (46 cm) K-49-K woofer and a KD-17 passive radiator. The woofer shall have a cast aluminum frame and the voice coil shall be three inches (7.6 cm) in diameter with a KaptonŽ form. The passive radiator shall be 15 inches (38 cm) in diameter and have a Kevlar composite cone with a rubberized surround. System sensitivity shall be 104 dB SPL, with 2.83 V input, measured at a distance of one meter in a half space anechoic environment. Maximum continuous output shall be 129 dB SPL at a distance of one meter with maximum continuous power input of 400 watts (40.5 V). Frequency response shall be 44 Hz to 200 Hzą4 dB, -10 dB at 34 Hz. Nominal impedance shall be 8 ohms. The cabinet sides shall be constructed of 3/4 inch, furniture grade, void-free plywood with textured water resistant black paint. The baffle board shall be one-inch, void-free plywood. All edges will be internally braced. Dimensions shall not exceed 26 29/32 inches (68.3 cm) high, 23 7/8 inches (60.6 cm) wide and 24 1/16 inches (61.1 cm) deep. Net weight shall not exceed 85 pounds (38.6 kg). The loudspeaker shall be a Klipsch KP-480-BX, manufactured by Klipsch, L.L.C. Specifications: Frequency Response (3 Meters, 1/2 Space Anechoic): 44 to 200 Hz, ą 4 dB Usable Response to 2,500 (-10 dB @ 34 Hz) Power Handling: 400 Watts* (40.5 V) Maximum Continuous Output @ 1 Meter with 400 Watt Input: 129 dB Sensitivity @ 1 Watt/1 Meter (2.83 V): 104 dB SPL Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms (4.2 Minimum @ 43 Hz) Maximum Long-Term Calculated Acoustic Output Power: 11.5 Acoustic Watts Woofer 1/2 Space Reference Efficiency: 2.77% Enclosure Tuning: 41 Hz Crossover Frequency: 150 Hz via (Optional) Internal Passive Crossover, 12 dB/Octave Roll-off for Woofer, 6 dB/Octave Roll-off for HF Output. Enclosure: One-inch (2.54 cm) Baffle Board. All Sides 3/4-inch (19 mm) Plywood, Internally Braced, Lined with Acoustical Foam. Black Metal Grille. Woofer Attached with Woofer Clamps. Input Connections: 1/4-inch Phone Jacks and Red/Black Five-way Binding Posts. Input is Fused (4-A Recommended). Height: 26 29/32" (68.3 cm) Width: 23 7/8" (60.6 cm) Depth: 24 1/16" (61.1 cm) Weight: 85 lbs. (38.6 kg) Net, 99 lbs. (45 kg) Shipping *AES standard, continuous pink noise 40-400 Hz, with 6 dB peaks above the continuous level.
  8. CECAA850 your suggestion of loosening and tightening has improved the problem considerably. I went in there and tightened all screws and wiggled connections and the muddy sound is almost gone. The mid range horn drivers were almost finger loose and I think the contact on the spade connectors from sitting idle for some time had a poor connection on top of it. John was kind enough to stop by and suggested replacing the caps in the crossover to which I will probably try. I like the sound but it is not quite there yet for my tastes.
  9. John, I am 67 miles due south of downtown Nashville. Depending on when you come through I may be gone next week. Will you be coming back this way on your way home? Send me an email please I would like to talk to you. CECAA850 I did what you suggested but the midrange still just does not sound right. It is kind of crackly if that makes any sense and since I have played with the connections a bit the cut out problem is gone. The other set sounds pretty darned good so I think there is an issue. jjpktd I also got a rack with some amplifiers and a fancy crossover. I have not really looked at them yet but they sure do weigh a ton and it took two of us to lift it up into the van. There must be some huge heat sinks in there. One of those when I have time endeavors will be to hook them all up and see what I have. All the gear is from the early 2000's. I hesitated to buy the rack full of stuff since I wanted the speakers only but for 250.00 I figured I would take a chance.
  10. This week I bought a pair of KP-250-A and a pair of KP-250-R mains along with a pair KP-115-A subs and a pair of KP-480-SW subs. If there is someone who is around the middle Tennessee area who knows these I think there are some problems but I need guidance on how to diagnose whatever is wrong with them. They sound a bit muddy to me and the one KP-250 seems to have an intermittent cutout in the midrange horn.
  11. I am interested in buying these if anyone around middle Tennessee area has some they wish to part with. I would prefer older versions and if they need work that is OK to. Thanks, Dave
  12. Finally got the woofer repaired. All I can say is that the sound is amazingly better with these AA Industrial La Scalas over the really pristine AA LS-BR's with replaced caps which were the go to set before. Separation of instruments is so defined now and bass may not be as low but I can't tell for sure. Even with the old original AA crossovers in the Industrial's it sounds so superior that I am not touching a thing from here on out. Same recordings and amplifier and two different audio worlds. As I sit here typing this I still have a hard time believing how much better they sound. Good thing they are in my shop for listening pleasure so I don't have to argue about klunky ugly industrial things ruining the inside of the house.
  13. I do understand this but have not yet had a answer as to whether sound waves can be directed just like an air flow could be. Direction of sound waves is what I am considering and air is just an analogy. Now if this never increased bass levels but improved sound quality over all this would still be worthwhile to me to try.
  14. OK that makes some sense but considering the huge variables in the various construction methods you referred me to this is not a finished science and what I proposed could make a difference. I will get in touch with Greg and thanks for the lead. What really started me wondering about all this were the kind of crude angular mods people have done where there was not much if any thought given to, once again thinking here that flow of sound can be in some ways similar to flow of gas, the aerodynamics of things. For instance a flat faced triangular corner piece would I figure bounce sound back at a 45 degree angle which would throw it right into the side of the doghouse where as a radiused corner would tend to direct to the front of the cabinet. Does anyone know how the size of the cutout for the motor board was arrived at?
  15. Me to. This is one of the things that had me thinking about why things were done and leaning towards good enough was good enough. An inside corner round of pretty generous size can be put in there like I have and not reduce the narrowest point at all. If sound does to some degree behave like the flow of most everything else I would think getting the sound out with the least amount of feeding back upon itself through induced swirls and eddies would have to help improve the definition of the sound and make it less muddy so to speak.
  16. I was asking the same question today, but about the Belle. Of course the lascala would fall under the same category. I could see why, you think of a couple of guys in a small work shop with out the tools and technology we have, how could they do some of this. Anyways, I guess this is why we have seen the curved Lascala. Have you seen the work that goes into one of those, there is no way they could keep the cost down. Then there is the question, does it sound that much better? Does it make that much of a difference for the need to spend so much? Only time will tell. I would like to build a curved Lascala or Belle, but only if there is some sort of evidence that it would be an improvement. My thought was "if it was curved on the back side would it be more efficient?" Quite hollow is probably correct with the fact its not flowing water, but rather the way it bounces around back there. I like the drawings along with the thought process. Now you are talking. I can accept that the angular surfaces could improve things. All I am asking is for definitive information based upon research done and not just opinions. With all the talk here about reinforcing making a noticeable difference in sound quality it seems as though the general consensus is things could be improved. Reading things here is a bit tedious at times because it's like there is a contest between money spent equating to bragging rights over solid real definable improvements and best bang for the buck real life analysis. I want the real answers because cost is not a problem since I can do this myself on machinery I already own. I don't however want to just waste time. Like the hole size in the dog house for the woofer. Rectangular and pretty small to me all things considered so does restricting the sound create a deeper bass utilizing the vibration of deliberately restricted and angular square cornered refinements made of plywood? Now throw in 1" plywood is supposed to sound better and there goes in part the vibration thing. See my problem here is that you can go round and round in circles trying to find the best answer.
  17. Went to the two sites you reference and I see nothing there like what I posted. Now are you suggesting that klipsch made analytical decisions here based upon various configurations to get the very best or was a certain level satisfactory and he went with that? In so far as vibration goes this is a one piece milled from solid thing and if glued and fastened to the back of the motor board is far more ridging than existing and far less prone to vibration is my opinion. What do you base your vibration comment on?
  18. I was told about how Paul penny pinched to a ridiculous degree on simple pennies per item at times recently. Considering the cost of La Scalas and what was saved it was silly at times. I have no design software for audio but my thought was to build upon sizes from the existing La Scala and for the corners to not become a choke point where the volume of the opening would be lesser than the narrowest existing in the current design.
  19. I had to pull the bottom off a pair of Industrial La Scala this week. While doing so I see for the first time the guts of a La Scala. Now one thing leads to another and I find a PDF file on the forums for building instructions. I decide to go ahead and build a 3D model from the PDF with my CAD program. While doing so I wonder if the angular and boxy construction of the La Scala was more a reflection of then current construction capabilities or whether it was an actual decision based upon sound wave propagation. For example if the cabinet was made a bit bigger so the internal corners could have been rounded would not the sound waves find an easier exit? Or how about the back was one machined piece as shown below? I figure I could easily do this as one piece on my Haas VF4 but it would have been a lot of work for Klipsch to try this. This deflector back piece would be a direct replacement for the standard La Scala cabinet. Or does the boxy angular surfaces help contain sound waves a bit and utilize the cabinet to make deeper bass? See the back inside view picture. This one piece would be a lot more solid and could also be glued fastened to the motor board for a much more ridgid construction.
  20. Yeah it will be new for sure. I don't know what all these were subject to. Wonder how peoples ear drums were after all that?
  21. Well these knew the lyrics but the 10 pack a day raspy voice I could have done without
  22. It is the K-43. As far as I can tell I am the first one in there. I don't intend to drift far from factory specs on this and I don't intend to ever sell them either. I have no quarrel with the sound as PK designed and no desire to change it. I will have a look at your suggestion. Are the screw centers that same as the K-33/43?
  23. Well I have formed a new criteria for buying speakers now. If I cant turn them way up with lots of bass you have to knock off 600.00 or I go. The guy I bought these from I honestly don't think deceived me as he was running these with a tiny 20 amp unit in his garage. Military vet and super nice. When I got these home I had them up pretty loud but nothing to alarming. So today I crank them way up after switching things around and finding my old speakers were just fine, new ones were not. Out comes Toccata and Fugue in D Minor and some volume and ouch. At the very least the speakers will have to be re-coned. The magnets on these are HUGE. Anyway looks like the deal is not so hot but these are the ones I want. It is amazing to me how good they sounded even with problems and the broken speaker cone was not really apparent to me until a real stress test. I look forward to when they are working right. I believe I have found the hum unless there are other problems to. I cant imagine what they did to blow these up. These will go out in my shop which is the only place I get to turn them up and the idea of fiberglass and industrial look and durability will look nice next to the CNC mill and Lathe Any suggestions as to where to go for reconing or should I just look for new? I definitely want the bigger amp speakers however I have to do it. On the plus side I finally got to see the guts of a La Scala and I wonder what one made out of 1" thick aluminum would sound like?
  24. I suppose anything can happen. I took my amplifier with me to test the speakers if needed but I doubt highly that a trip in the van hurt them. Yes with the other La Scalas there is not a hint of hum at any level and so I suspect the new ones. I just have not had a chance to play with all the variations yet and it may be a few days before I can. I will update when i have new info. Since the seller said everything had been disconnected when he bought them I had suspected there was a problem there first. I had them on long enough to determine there was a hum but no time to fool around yet. I just thought asking to see if anyone had experienced this issue might give me a heads up on where to start. Thanks for the replies by the way and I will try the suggestions made some time this coming week..
  25. OK here are some pictures and further info. There are two tweeter types. The horn driver is the spring type and not the soldered type. The wires were not really in there good so it may have been part of the problem but at 6:00 AM I could not exactly crank these up without some rebellion:) Considering the tweeters I am leaning towards getting a pair from Crites. The crossovers are so clean they look factory new. It is scary how nice they look compared to the other four sets of La Scalas I have gone through now. I presume though that the capacitors should still be replaced. Still need an answer of how to determine the source of the hum though and I hope someone chimes in. Yes I remember reading of speakers not hooked up the same but can't find that article to troubleshoot the problem I have. Help would certainly be appreciated.
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