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Mike, What equipment are you using with your 47A? What disks are your favorite? Do you use a preamp with a 6 channel pass through? ------------------ This message has been edited by trader on 07-20-2002 at 07:22 PM

I'm also considering a class A amplifier. I can get a good price on a Forte 4. Does anyone have an opinion on this amp and how it compares to a tube amp?

K2 I called Klipsch and talked with their resident expert who misplaced the scematic and specs for my crossover. I was told that the crossover was designed to work with the wood/fiberglass horn I have and not to swap it our for a 500-5000. One of my K-Horns had its guts removed to match the newer 1965 model. It's interesting that each crossover is so much different. I wish I understodd the elements that are present and how it effects sound. For the record the K-Horns were hauled in a trailer. There's no way they are fitting in a Pathfinder. WIshfull thinking on my part for about 20 minutes. (:

Sorry. I'll shorten it tomorrow when I'm awake.

tech reck you can get the Pioneer Elite 47A for under 800.00 and it playes both formats. DVD-A is an incredible format. I can definetly, hear a huge difference in many of the new releases compared to their CD counterparts. There are a few releases that don't sound much different but for the most part it's a tube like experience. When the media is done properly it's breath taking. The music is warm and extremely dynamic. I actually like my DVD-A cuts better then the SACD discs I have. SACD is also awesome but for some reason the DVD-A discs are my favorite. The 47A player has legato DACS which are excellent. The player has received great reviews. One hit was that the player is not as heavy as a boat anchor. Any engineer will tell you that it costs more to make a unit lighter and smaller. Weight means very little when a product is designed properly. I heard the argument that multi-channel music is unatural. Well how is stereo natural? I think we are just use to it. In my bedroom I have high ceilings and have Cornwalls with Heresy and the music is incredible in 5.1. Stereo is great too but I prefer to have the music sorround me from all sides. This is the ultimate in imaging and soundstage. I think that most people don't like change, don't have the bucks or room for all the speakers needed so they make excuses. Also, DVD-A and SACD can be down mixed to stereo if you don't have a 5 channel setup. Don't wait go run and get yourself into this new format. I guarantee that you will enjoy it. The only down side is the cost of the disks. One more gripe. SACD disks holders are the same as CD's which break easily and are hard to tell apart from regular CD's. DVD-A holders are larger and are improved over the regular jeweled cases. Too bad SOny got cheap here. Now I have to label everything so I don't confuse the formats. My other system doesn't do the hew formats. ------------------ Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly.Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement.

Fred-I bought the K-Horns in PA. About a 300 mile trip from NY. I'm a happy camper. I was wondering if the mystery crossover is similar to the 500-5000? Here is a macro of the crossover with labels. http://www.nyonline.com/cross.gif ------------------ Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly.Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement.

Ray, I'm not sure. I'd consider anything. How is the new AMC compared to older studd? ------------------ Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly.Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement.

Thanks for the informative post. I also located an A/B switch at partsexpress. I don't know why i didn't think of that. I guess I was trying to make it more complicated then it was. Do you think I would be better off using my SS pre with a tube amp or get a tube receiver?? ------------------ Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly.Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement.

Hi, I need help from the tube gurus on this board. I have several questions. Here goes: 1. Would I be better off with a Tube receiver or with using my SS pre and tubes for the amplification (yes it has to run along side my ss amp too). 3. What is the difference between valve amps, set amps, triodes, etc. Is one better then the other for Klipsch speakers? Thanks ------------------ <A HREF="http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two</A> Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly. Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement. This message has been edited by trader on 07-19-2002 at 08:43 PM

At that price I wouldn't even check them out if they looked descent. Even if you have to replace a driver or two you will be ahead of the game. I think the Cornwall is the best speaker in the Klipsch lineup for the dollars. I got lucky and recently obtained a set of Klipschorns for 850.00, for both, which is the equivalent to your buy. Good luck and let us know how they sound with yout tube setup. ------------------ Electronics: Two" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch Electronics: Two Sherbourn 5 channel, mono-block amplifiers. 200 watt bi-polar design. Very similar to the Bryston amp with more power and a much shorter warranty. Incredible reviews got me to buy this amp. I wanted mono-blocks for 5.1 listening and I can hear a huge difference over my old B&K AV5000II amp. The B&K was a great 2 channel amp but for 5 full range speakers it was not too good. I can hear sounds in the rears and fronts that I didn't hear before with the B&K. I really believe that 5 full range speakers require mono-blocks to perform correctly.Two Newcaste preamps. These preamps are dark horses. They are dead silent and transparent with incredible bass, gain, and speaker settings. I also have a 6 channel pass through and a CD analog pass through. One Pioneer Elite 47A DVD, SACD, DVD-A, MP3, player. I love the DACS on this player and am addicted to the new, high rez formats. One Pioneer 414 DVD player. Great picture with OK audio. One Denon DCD-1500 CD player. This was one of the first CD players to be produced. VHS: Who cares! Just got digital TV with on demand movies and programming. Most of the channels are in DD so I have really been using my 5.1 setup. Cables are Monster and AR and Dayton. I don't believe in spending big bucks on this. My setup is not ultra-high end but is on the cusp of it. You could spend thousands more but I doubt of you could get more then 10% better sound from the gear I have. I haven't heard tubes on my rigs yet so I better hold off on my last statement.

I've been on an upgrade binge of late. I think I'm finally almost there. http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch This message has been edited by trader on 07-19-2002 at 01:17 PM

Hi, I fnally got my digital camera and have taken some pics of the different crossovers from each K-Horn that I recently obtained. I was hoping someone could identify them and give me some insight. I'm wondering if they crossover at the same frequencies and why one is so much larger then the other? http://www.nyonline.com/klipsch/crossover.htm K-Horn: 1965-K-B-WO Serial: 2D190 Alnico Magnets Crossover: Type 1RB K-Horn: Pre 1965-k-b-WO Serial:1704 Style: B Crossover: K-500-5000 All drivers updated to match the above K-Horn. Original crossover and Fiberglass horn.

Boa, I have two setups that are pretty similiar. Down stairs I have K-horns and 3 Heresys driven by a Newcaslte 9080 preamp, a Sherbourn 1500 amp and a Pioneer 47A Elite player. The Sherbourn amp is a very nice sounding SS unit. It has 5 seperate monoblocks with seperate transformers, heatsinks, etc. I upgraded from a B&K AV5000II and heard a huge difference in 5.1 listening. I think the B&K was underpowered to drive all 5 speakers. Monoblocks are the way to go with a 5.1 system. For stereo listening the B&K was one sweet amp. My upstairs system has the same components minus the 47a. I have a Pioneer 414 and Cornwalls instead of K-horns. BOth systems sound great. I'd like to get a tube amp/preamp but I'm not sure how to run it along side my current setup. Do you know of an A/B switch for running different components with the same speakers? Also, what differences did you hear with the new ref. 30? Are the benefits of the preamp lost when you use the player's DACS? I mostly use teh 47A's DACS with the Newcastle preamp. I'm wondering if I would benefit from the Ref. 30?

I guess I'm too lazy to do a side by side comparison so I'm hoping someone out there has some information on this. I own a Pioneer 47A DVD/CD player that is hooked up to K-horns and 3 Heresys. I also have a Denon 1500 CD player (not the Denon DVD-1500 but just a cd player). This was one of the first CD players to come out and is built like a tank. I wanted to know if I would gain anything by using it for 2 channel listening on my system.

Obviously some tracks on CD's are mixed well and sound incredible while other cd's just don't sound too good. I don't think you can get every track to sound great no matter what equipment you have. I'm totaly into 5 channel listening so I have SS equipment running K-horns and 3 heresys. The sound is incredible but what made the biggest difference is a switch from traditional cd's to SACD stereo and DVD-A. Both formats are ultra high bandwidth formats and can be down mixed to stereo in the player so you wouldn't need a new preamp. The music is stunning with my new 47A Pinonner Elite player. I'm sure you can find a local dealer to loan you one and see if that makes a difference. SACD and DVD-A are tube-like with excellent mixing, for the most part. Just a thought.

BOA: Have you ever been in a Sony Imax theater. The sound is incredible and they have other special effects that make movie watching an experience. I would think that theaters have a lot of competition for PPV, video on demand (IO TV), DVD rentals, VHS rentals, etc. I would love to see the numbers for movie goers over the last 10 years. I could be wrong. If theaters are losing market share then they will have to provide a more engaging experience. Better sound, chairs that shake, 72mm film, etc. The theaters that I go to don't even offer an usher to seat people. So you always get the a-holes who leave one empty seat between them and the next party. This is very annoying when you have to ask strangers to all move down so you can have two seats next to eachother to avoid sitting in the first row. You're right that I did notice the sound more when I got my own 5.1 channel setup. Now I realize that I have better sound in my own livingroom. Funny about BOSE listeners. I just bought a new truck and it came with a BOSE stereo. My friend so that I said WOW! you're very lucky to have such a great radio. In reality it doesn't sound any better then any other stock radio that I have owned. For good car stereo yoou need good components and the stock stuff just isn't that good in most cars. Anyway, I think the THX standards are good for theaters who need guidlines but is bad for home audio since it limits what can and can't be designed into a preamp/amp. The only preamp that I would consider is the B&K ref. 30 but the price is outrageous. I was also told by a friend who I trust that is in the business that I probably couldn't hear a difference between what I have and the B&K anyway.

Yawn!!! I come here when I want silence. Thanks

Call partsexress.com they have a tech support line with free advice on speaker design. They also have a great selection for drivers, wire, etc.

I was running heresys with a sub for a while and was never satisfied with the sound. Heresy, imho, don't intergrate well with a sub. Heresys are great speakers for their size but lack any kind of low end. There seems to be a hole when crossing over a sub at 80hz. My Cornwalls are warmer and blend much better with a sub. You can't compare Martin Logans with your Heresys. This is not a fair comparison. It's like comparing them to a K-horn. I can tell you this. K-horns sound incredible when they are setup properly. I own a walnut pair, a pair of Cornies and 3 sets of Heresys. If you don't have the room for the K-horns get the Cornwall. It sounds very close to the K-horn. Lots of tight bass and very smooth. I would look for an older pair on Ebay with vertical horns, if you can find them. My Cornies are from 85 and sound wonderfull but not as smooth as the K-horns. Also, the K-horn is a beautiful piece of furniture that will always hold its value.

I wonder if the average movie goer pays much attention to how good the sound really is. I know lots of people who listen to wave radios and think that is high fidelity. Personally, I avoid several movie theaters in my area because the sound systems are not very good. Many times I'll go to the movies and all the music is coming from the front of the theater. I see speakers everywhere but they don't seem to use them. Why?? I'm not a fan of THX certification for home audio. Many of the newer preamps have adopted the Lucas stamp of approval and this limits the design of the unit being produced. These approval standards have removed all tone controls from preamps and the ability to adjust all your speakers from small to large in every combination. I went through this when I was going to upgrade my Sherwood Newcastle. I decided that they units that were out there were either overpriced and buggy and limited the amount of control the user has. With the Newcastle I can set gain, tone controls, small/large in every combination, and it has a 6 channel pass through. The unit is quiet, not buggy, dynamic and well constructed. I believe it's called a dark horse and is dogged by the Sherwood name which has produced some real garbage. Newcastle is their high-end line which is very well constructed.

The woofers from Layne audio look interesting. However, the specs are different then a stock K-33. Therefore, I would replace both drivers or replace the one with a stock Klipsch replacement. I believe they run around 100.00. Before you dump the driver I would pull the driver out and install it in the other speaker you have and see if the problems still continues.

Pete, Yeah it would be cool to compare notes. Email me your phone number and we can make plans to get together. A Heresy II will make a great center channel with the K-horn. I have that setup and am very happy. I have an upstairs sytem with my Cornies, a Heresy for rears and a Heresy for a center. I also have a pair of KSf-S5 speakers. I actually did a side by side comparison with the Heresy I and found that they sound very similiar. They are a great speaker when size is a factor. Anyway, the KSF-S5 will have to be cut loose. I recently sold my matching center for what I paid for them. Klipsch speakers really hold their value. Anyway, my other choice was too use my Cornwalls for center channels but then I would be stuck with Heresy, upstairs for 2-channel listening which is unacceptable since most of my listening is music with 15% for movies, if that. Pete, do you have IO yet. Cablevision just hooked me up and the service is great. You can get movies, specials, etc. all on demand for a monthly charge. Also, most of the channels are in DD. The new sony box they give you displays when the show or movie is broadcasting in 5.1. For that reason alone I will not go back to Satlellite. How do you like SET amps. Have you also tried SS amps. If so what did you find? The K-horns are very smooth with my Sherbourn and can't imagine them getting much better. I haven't experimented much with tubes. I had some old receivers with tubes but I don't think that they count. I was shocked, though, when I did go to SS equipment. While things became more shrilly they also were more defined with less distortion. I assume the new tube amps are clean and sweet from what I've read. One last thing. Did you keep the original caps in your crossover. Mine are not leaking and have no corrosion. I'm wondering if I would gain anything my replacing them?

HW, I think you summed up what I was thinking about Electrostatic speakers. Great post. Electrostatic were the only other speaker I considered when auditioning speakers many years ago. I thought they sounded incredible but I didn't have the height requirements for room placement. Some day when I buy a new home with Cathedral celings I'll probably have to own a pair. Another really good pair of speakers are the B&W Nautilius series. I forget which model but they look weird and cost 10k for the pair. They sounded incredible but I would put my K-horns or cornies against any of these speakers. I think we all here sounds different therefore there isn't one design that dominates all others.

Thanks for the correction HDR. It's nice having someone like yourself on this board who know the Heritage line so well. I haven't really listened enough to the K-horns to make a full review vs. my Cornies. However, I notice that the K-horns are a little smoother and can play louder without fatigue. The Cornwalls have a sweet spot which is at a much lower volume and breakup at higher listening levels. My room is a little small for the K-horns so I don't have ideal room placement to make a fair comparison. I do love the K-horns. I do respect my Cornwalls which do sound much better then the Forte or Chorus, IMHO (listened to both). The Heresys I have make great rear speakers but have a hole in the lower octaves which is very unsatisfying. I've never listened to the Lascala or Belle so I can't comment on them. Pete: Yeah you win the award for crazy. But Rosewood K-horns. I would love to see a pic. I do a lot of woodworking and ROsewood is one of the most expensive woods you can buy. I love the grain. I have Walnut but would have preferred oak or birch. Too bad they didn't make a maple finish. My favorite non-exotic wood. Pete did you give your brother-in-law the Cornies for taking the drive? I'm impressed that you were able to get them in a mini-van. That must have been one cramped drive. What other equipment are you running with the K-horn? I'm using a monoblock amplifier from Sherbourn a Sherwood Newcastle preamp and a Pioneer 47A CD/DVD player. The Sherwood has a 6 channel pass through so I use the 47A DACS which sound wonderful. My wife bitched a little about this player. We're at my cousins and he start talking about how he went to the WHiz and bought 3 DVD players for under 500.00. (opened a can of worms). Later on she thought it was a little stupid to have a player that we can only play certain CD's on and not use those CD's on any other player or in the car. I actually had to agree with her. But the player stays. I love my SACD and DVD-A music. 5 Channel listeing is incredible with the right setup.

I found this link that shows the K-5J horn found in older K-horns. I thougt you guys would get a kick out of it. Terry from Klipsch said he preferred it over the K-400. They obviously stopped making it because of the costs involved. A stamped horn is much cheaper to make.http://216.37.9.58/ubb/uploads/khorn58/klpichorn!!.jpg