JFHSQT
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Posts posted by JFHSQT
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Bumping with price reduced to $1549 for these beautiful speakers.
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6 minutes ago, Schu said:
Those aren't 70ths... the 70th was Australian Walnut.
Those rosewood Heresy are special though... even with the little nicks they look good.
Oof you are correct, these are the "Special Edition" Rosewood, not the 70th Anniversary. I think they came out close to the same time and I always thought they were the anniversary. There were only 70 pairs made, maybe that's why I was confused.
Here are these speakers:
https://www.klipsch.com/products/heresy-iii-special-editionEast Indian rosewood specs:
I don't think there's anyway to edit the title of this post is there?
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Selling a pair of East Indian Rosewood Special EditionHeresy IIIs. These are 1 owner, bought from dealer floor demo that sat for about 1 year on the showroom floor. As a result there are a few scuffs in the corners and edges of the speakers but from a standing distance within a few feet there is no way to see any of this small detail. These are beautiful limited edition speakers, to my knowledge only 70 pairs were made in North America. They will ship in the original Klipsch packaging.
I am asking $1800 for the pair and will ship anywhere in the CONUS via UPS/FedEx for that price.
Here is a link to the gallery
https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-3xdKTh/
CORRECTION: These are the Special Edition Heresy IIIs, not the 70th Anniversary - sorry for the confusion.
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2 minutes ago, Shiva said:
I assume you are using a microphone at the sitting position with REW or something similar. As a simple test, move the mic forward and backwards in the room and see if there is a better frequency response to be had.
Unfortunately it is not position dependent, I have this averaged across multiple measurements in ARC and I can measure it in any seating position. Seems to me it would likely be a null from a reflection canceling out the 100Hz wave versus something to do with listening position.
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43 minutes ago, Tarheel TJ said:
Hard to say based on just a room description, but it could be that floor bounce is an issue. This may be why you are only experiencing the problem after moving to floor-standers. I am thinking that 12' distance from couch to speaker, when triangulated by floor bounce to 14', might just equal a null at 100hz at the LP? Perhaps a thick rug/pad might help? I know they are a major pain to install, but I found "cloud" type panels on the ceiling to be very beneficial, though I don't know if it would help your 100hz issue.
Thanks, yes I am thinking floor bounce could be an issue. I have a thick wall to wall shag carpet but I guess it is possible that it could be acting as a reflecting point.
The leather sofa could be a more likely culprit... it is not a null at a listening position BTW it is measured across all of my measurement points when running Anthem Room Correction, which tells me it's not something from the listening position. If the 100Hz wave is bouncing back at 12' and cancelling itself out then there could be the issue. Another thing is I have the problem from both the left and right speakers.
I am going to try a couple things with the sofa today, possibly measuring with a comforter across the back, and also moving it forward by about a foot.
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New RF-7 IIIs delivered yesterday, and I am going to be using them pretty exclusively for home theater. Over the past couple weeks I have demo'd both the RP-6000 and 820F before deciding to move up to the uncompromising performance of the RF-7 IIIs.
Thing is, with all 3 of these speakers I have been experiencing a big null at 100Hz, and I am having to set my crossover at 100Hz to avoid it. I have significant subwoofers (2 SB16 Ultras & 2 JL e112s) so lack of powerful bass up through 180 Hz is not a problem. But especially with the RF-7s I know they have great power and drive in that lower bass region between 40-100Hz and I'd like to take advantage of this.
I have tried pushing the speakers all the way against the wall to about 24" driver to wall and it has little effect. Because of the side walls and placement of a center console I am pretty limited with moving away from side walls etc. And 24" is about the limit that I can bring them out into the room due to the RC-64 sitting on the center console below the hung TV.
I do have a large leather reclining couch placed 12' in front of the speakers. I have read that a 100Hz wave is 14' and I'm wondering if there are reflections from the placement of this couch that could be causing the problem. I could move the couch either forward or backward by about 1' but I doubt that will make much difference.
The other option could be ceiling panels. I have large GIK panels behind the speakers and at 1st and 2nd reflection points in the room so the only thing left would be "cloud" panels on the ceiling. But that is a great big pain in the *** if it didn't really fix the problem.
Final note, I have had both Heresy IIIs (sealed) and Monitor Audio Gold 200s (dual rear ports) in this same position and not had this issue. It only seems to have come up with the larger Klipsch floor standers.
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I have a Uniti Atom paired with a pair of Heresy IIIs and I think they are a great match. I am also using a Uniti Nova with my Volti Rivals in my "big" room and that pairing is even more stunning. A better fit than the Luxman MQ-88uSE tube amp I was using with them. The Rivals are pretty much like Forte IIIs on steroids.
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36 minutes ago, Schu said:
Are you firm on your price and are you willing to separate the pair?
I may have a little wiggle room on the price for a local pickup but sorry, I can't separate them (unless you know someone else looking for a single LS II!)
Thanks!
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12 hours ago, Islander said:
There are all kinds of folks on here, each with their own experiences, values, and priorities. For people that have Jubilees and love them, they seem like the obvious answer to nearly any question.
“My fridge is broken. What kind should I replace it with?”
”Jubilees!”
Do check out the AL5s. If they give you what you’re looking for, that’s great. Go for it!
However, I’m as much of an enabler as quite a few folks on here. Accordingly, I suggest that rather than trading in or selling your LS2s (if that’s what you had in mind), maybe keep them for surround speakers and consider getting a third AL5 as a centre speaker. That way (if it fits your budget), you’d have an all-Scala 5-channel surround system, plus your 2 subs would make it a 5.2 system that would sound mighty fine, with consistent timbre all around, which would really help the surround effect. Since many musicians are releasing Blu-rays of their concerts, with high-quality sound, you can now get more of a “you are there” experience than you get when listening in just 2 channels.
Just one more opinion to confuse you...
Thanks Pat... I did actually fall into an opportunity to replace the LS IIs a few weeks ago, and they are now listed for sale. I downsized quite a bit in both my office system and my home theater - now using my Heresy IIIs for fronts in the home theater and my old RP-450C on the floor for a center channel (on a stand). I would mention the speakers that replaced the LS IIs but I think they would get a mixed reception around these parts. Suffice it to say I am both extremely happy with the new speakers and very sad to see the LS IIs go. But also very glad that I could repurpose my Heresy IIIs which were not getting much use.
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I am selling my La Scala IIs which were purchased from a local dealer in 2018. They are walnut, 1 owner, less than 2 years old. Tweeters were replaced under factory warranty in August of 2018. They look and sound amazing. This walnut version has slight cosmetic issues, with scratches top on one speaker due to a DVD player being dragged across it, and some laminate chipping on edges and corners of both speakers. Cosmetic issues are barely noticeable unless standing right in front of the speakers.
Selling for $3500 for local pickup only in Salem, VA.
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4 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:
Perhaps auditioning the new model VS exploring potential mods / tweaks to your current La scala IIs may be a discussion for you? Perhaps if you hear the new model and you really like something about them, you can taeget relatively inexpensive tweaks toward that sound (in comparison to 12k for a new pair of al5s....). Will save you A LOT of money and allow you to flavor until your heart is content. Just thinking out loud.
Good point, though it would void my warranty if I did any mods - I've already had to replace both tweeters at one point under warranty due to a burst of digital noise. But still, that's a big argument financially for exploring mods to take the LS II more in the direction of the AL5s (assuming I find them to be an improvement once I hear them). My local Heritage dealer has the same LS IIs that replaced the ones I bought from them 2 years ago, so I may have to do some traveling to hear the AL5s. Or they may be at Capital Audiofest this weekend?
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4 minutes ago, Marvel said:
I've got older La Scalas and love them. LS are special in their own way.
Absolutely correct. We tend to forget how wonderful (almost) all of the Klipsch are in the audio world. I recently got a pair of the massive large MWM cabinets, and am wondering if I can convince my wife to let me keep them. And yet, I could also live the rest of my life with my much smaller Heresy IIs.
It's all good, and been an interesting thread.
There IS a section for JUST Jubilees... mostly because of the difference in setup, with going active, etc.
Bruce
Yeah I'm totally convinced that Jubilees are amazing sounding speakers, I learned a lot about them on this thread. And it makes sense that they would dominate the conversation when someone comes in and says "Hey, what does Klipsch make that's better than the La Scalas?"
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Yeah I want to hear the AL5s before I pull the trigger. I'm assuming a lot, but something tells me if I really love the LS II sound and if the AL5 can do all of that with a bit more refinement with the new model, I'm probably going to be happiest "staying in the family."
Has nothing to do with looks, I made one comment in my original post about the "industrial" look of them, then an addition 10-12 comments about my concerns with going active and working with crossovers and bi-amping and all that stuff. I feel like my journey of exploring that route (and then comparing it with the sacrifices it would require of my current system, which I have built over considerable time and expense), and just deciding that wasn't the route I wanted to go, is pretty well documented in the pages of this thread. Hopefully that's not offensive in any way to current Jubilee owners,, but I'm just traveling down a different path here.
Klipsch is my favorite brand of speakers, I own 3 pairs of them. Came here assuming this was the "Klipsch" community and not the "Jubilee" community, so again, no offense to anyone here if in some way it seems MY preference isn't exactly in alignment with yours. As far as budget and expense, I am well aware of what all lines of the current Klipsch Heritage models cost, and also how much a Jubilee system with a Xilica crossover would cost. Didn't come here to talk budget or price, just exploring all my options. As I mentioned, you guys have been great in steering me in the right direction.
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Thanks for all the advice and feedback here guys.. it has been a very educational experience!
And I can say it has guided me to making the decision on my next speaker upgrade in 2020.
After listening to Tom Petty's Mojo this evening it confirms it - the upgrade from my La Scala IIs will be:
The La Scala AL5My LS IIs are just so amazing and everything I want when it comes to dynamics, detail, scale and nuance. Really the only reasonable thing I can think that may be that "5% better" is the AL5, only this time in matte black instead of walnut. Thanks again and I do have to hear some Jubilees. I don't think they're the right speaker for me but I am sure they are amazing.
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6 hours ago, glens said:
The main thing I see wrong with this whole scenario is that there'll be two conversions from digital (for digital sources) with one from analog to digital going in to the crossover. Not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, and a very high quality DAC early on is always a good thing, it just seems a waste. I wouldn't use an analog crossover except as an interim solution. The e.q. necessary in this use is better done digitally, IMO, for the same money spent. It would be better to use a preamp that does ADC first as needed, "passing" digital input signals to the output (manipulating them digitally as necessary) to the crossover.
Well this is the final area of resistance for me actually and why I'd really need to hear this system to see how much of a difference the "speakers" make versus how married I am to the sound and investment of my digital front end. I've been told "you won't hear a difference" but I have to believe there's a trade-off. Between my Chord stack and Innuos server I have more money invested than my preamp and amp combined, and only slightly less than if you added the La Scalas themselves in with the amp & pre. I get many people will say "a DAC is a DAC" but the digital side of my system is contributing a huge amount to the sound - especially when paired with such highly resolving speakers like the LS IIs. So the trade-off is toss all that aside and end up with an additional A/D/A conversion through a utilitarian DAC in something like the Xilica, then do the Jubes' incredible sound restore/make up for it or at the end of the day is it all a wash. I definitely would need to hear the Jubilees to make that judgement call.
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3 minutes ago, Coytee said:
Guess I'm an idiot!! That's how I do it. I have a single Crown K2 parked on top of each bass bin and one channel powers the bass unit and the other channel powers the K402.
I'm doing vertical biamping.
If you went horizontal biamping, then you could use your tube amp (two channels of output) to power each (left/right) K402 and you could do the same with your SS amp where each channel powers a bass unit.
By doing it that way, you have one solid state amp dedicated to bass output and one amp (tube I understand) dedicated to midrange/treble output.
The active crossover.... this is where the fly gets into the ointment for some folks.
Your preamp outputs would go to the active crossover inputs. The active crossover outputs would then be directed to each respective channel. Two of them would go to the HF amp and the other two would go to the LF amp then the amps are attached to each respective part of the speaker.
One issue sometimes seems to be converting to (I presume you have) RCA outputs to XLR then possibly back to RCA. I was doing this and fiddling around with various configurations to ground.... finally just went with XLR throughput so I didn't have to change things up.
There are others who have more elegant solutions than my "everything is a nail and I have a hammer".
HA! I didn't mean people who did that were idiots, just that in my way of thinking I was an idiot for not realizing I could just use the L/R outputs of the tube amp to power the HF instead of vertical biamping as you say... yes it would make more sense for me to use the existing amps I own in that configuration versus buying another Luxman tube amp to power the other half of the system.
I'm going to circle back to this idea after the holidays - hadn't planned on buying anything for the remainder of the year but at least I know a lot more now and the idea of using my own existing amps is definitely do-able. Don't be surprised if I hit you up on a road trip to Knoxville from Salem VA at some point after the first of the year. Thanks again to everyone for all your help and advice.
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53 minutes ago, Coytee said:
Well, I guess the answer is "yes". If you actively biamp the Jubilee you would need four channels of amplification. You wouldn't need three more of them though... you could get a lessor amp to power the bass bins and use the Luxman for the K402. (I presume your Luxman is a stereo amp??? I'm not familiar with it)
The main issue if you use a different amp is to get their gain structure matched so one doesn't blow the other out of the water however, that's not impossible either.
I don't know anything about the Avantgarde but I'm personally wary of speakers with on board electronics..... you're stuck with what they give you. If something blows, you have issues. In the non-powered world, you could limp by with a different amp if need be. I might be wrong but that's my take.
Well now that you put it that way a lightbulb has gone off. For some reason I was thinking I'd use the L/R from one amp to power one side of the speakers (ie top and bass bin of left side) and L/R output from an identical amp to power the other side of the speakers, which is totally idiotic... I'd actually be using the L channel from the Luxman valve amp (20 wpc at 8 ohms which should be plenty) to the left 402, then the R channel to the right 402, THEN a separate amp to power the bass bins in the same way. I have no idea why this didn't occur to me sooner.
So using a different amp like my solid state vintage Luxman M2000 (150 wpc) to power the bass bins would be totally fine then and I'd keep the Luxman MQ88uSE for the tops. I'd use my Backert Labs valve preamp with 2 separate outputs to go from my source to the L/R of the Luxman MQ88uSE (preamp out 1) and to the L/R of the M2000 solid state amp (preamp out 2). And I assume there is a digital crossover somewhere in the mix. That's actually much more do-able than what I thought would require buying another identical amp to power the other "side" of the speakers.
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On 10/26/2019 at 11:10 PM, Coytee said:
If you deal with the shipping, I happen to have not only an extra K510/K69 (the small horn), I also have an extra EV-DX38 active that's already programmed for the LaScala/510 combo.
That's a very kind and generous offer... When you say it's an "active" crossover, does this mean I would NOT need extra amps to power everything or that if I went down this road I'd still need to run multiple amps across the system? This ultimately seems to be the dealbreaker for me every time I get feeling brave about it. I've just searched too long to abandon my Luxman valve amp and I can't afford to buy 3 more of them
Kind of related question but I've looked into the Avantgarde Zero TA XD as well - it seems to me like this is kind of the same idea with onboard electronics to handle the DSP and an active subwoofer built into the speaker. Not that I'm comparing that speaker to the shock and awe of the Jubilee, but is this speaker addressing the same timing/phase type issues by having everything built-in to the speaker itself (and ability to use your own stereo amp & sources)?
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On 10/25/2019 at 3:28 PM, Islander said:
Yes, jumping up to Jubilees is a big step, one that takes a serious financial commitment. It may be something you want to consider in the future. Could it be that you haven't heard all that your Scala IIs can do? Have you listened to some excellent recordings through them? With your speakers and your fine electronics, you should be able to easily hear the difference between good recordings and bad recordings, and the best should sound really good. I listen to Net Radio a lot of the time, and when I pop in a CD or put on an LP instead, the improvement in sound amazes and pleases me.
Yes, I do have excellent sources - listening to mostly Redbook but some hi res files purchased either through Qobuz or HD Tracks... content is where it all starts and ultimately what it's all about. My favorite & most played albums are things like Chick Corea Trio's Trilogy recordings, Tears for Fears' Seeds of Love, Pink Floyd's DSOTM, lots of Pat Metheny, Rick Rubin's work with Tom Petty & Johnny Cash, Steven Wilson, etc... it goes on and on, but honestly even with poorly produced Redbook files the Chord stack still makes them sound incredibly refined and transparent (80s pop. etc).
On 10/25/2019 at 3:28 PM, Islander said:First, raise the crossover on your subs higher, to maybe 120 Hz or so. As you know, speaker output doesn't cut off right at its claimed lower frequency limit, it starts to roll off at some point above that. In the case of the La Scala, original and II, that point is around 100 Hz. in the same way, subs do not cut off precisely at their upper limit, they start to roll off at some point below that. Accordingly, to avoid a dip at the crossover region, it's necessary to set the sub(s) to overlap the lower frequency response region of the speakers. This might call for a reduction of volume for the subs. Maybe try 100 Hz first. Experiment! It's free, and it can be a very useful learning experience.
Thanks - I run dual SVS SB2000 subs, which is an upgrade over the single JL Audio e112 I was running. The SB2000s have a 12dB low pass rolloff slope and I've had them set at 70Hz since doing a lot of experimenting by ear. One thing I noticed with higher settings was male bass vocals noticeably bleeding over into the subwoofer at much higher than 70Hz. I used Club for Five's cover of Brothers In Arms to set optimally to avoid the lead bass vocal from bleeding over and got down to about 70Hz until it wasn't an issue. This afternoon I am experimenting a bit more per your suggestion - set at 100Hz, there is a good bump/improvement in that upper bass and I'm not hearing any separation - but I haven't listened to Club for Five yet (ha!)
On 10/25/2019 at 3:28 PM, Islander said:The second suggestion is to see if you can EQ out the La Scala 148 Hz. peak. This affects both the original model and the II, since it's due to the shape of the bass horn, and has nothing to do with any resonance issues that might be audible at very high volume levels. I didn't really notice it, and now it's gone, thanks to the Dx38 digital processor, which can do things that are impossible for a passive crossover. However, if you have an easy way to dial down the speaker output by about 7 dB, centred on 148-150 Hz, it's worth checking out.
Thanks - I can experiment with this via Roon's DSP parametric EQ filters. I did experiment based on an earlier suggestion on bumping a bit up at 400Hz but I didn't hear any improvement. I'll run some tracks with a notch at 148Hz and see how it sounds.
All in all this has been a really enlightening thread, one that - as I've mentioned - has given me a little more appreciation for my current system and the capabilities of the La Scala IIs. It does seem like upgrades at this point would be at considerable expense for potentially not much of an "upgrade" from what I love about these speakers right now. It's a cliche but these kind of discussions can make you "really appreciate what you have" versus the greener grass we always seem to be chasing in this hobby.-
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Thanks @Islander and @Bubo - this is a wealth of information and answers a lot of questions I have about the Jubilees in particular.
I gotta be honest, however it reflects on me here in this forum... The Jubilee and/or JubScala project does seem all a little overwhelming for me, and as I've listened to the La Scala IIs over the past few nights since starting this thread, I have been much more critically listening and really trying to get to the heart of why I want to upgrade. Honestly, they sound amazing, and upon hours of listening there really seems to be only one conclusion - "these sound amazing, but I feel like there's even better I can get to wring out that last 5-8% of what is possible."
And so the question would then be how much trouble and expense is it worth to get that 5-8%. With the Jubes/JubScala, it seems like there's a lot of DIY stuff and considerable additional expense when you start talking about getting another $6,000 Luxman tube amplifier and digital crossovers, etc. I also have concerns about re-digitizing an analog system that has already been processed by my Innuos/Chord electronics, which I really, really like... running them through a digital crossover effectively makes them irrelevant.What I'd be looking for is a solution that goes from the speaker taps of my Luxman directly to the posts of 2 other speakers, passing the unaltered analog system from my tube amp into the speakers. So within those parameters, is there a speaker upgrade that can wring that last little slice of fidelity out of my system? It sounds like Khorns may get me 3%, maybe Cornwall IVs could get a little further... but again there's $6-12,000 investment.
All of this tells me 2 things... 1) I need to hear Jubilees at some point because they must be absolutely awesome and (2) I probably need to save myself a nice chunk of change and continue to enjoy the La Scala IIs in my system.
5 hours ago, Islander said:Do you have a subwoofer (or two)? La Scalas, like most speakers (if their owners would admit it), really benefit from the help of a good sub for the bottom octaves. A horn-loaded sub is ideal, but a good direct-firing one can also do a good job, assuming that you've taken the time to get its location and settings just right.
I do have 2 SVS SB2000s running with the LS IIs, crossover is set around 70Hz and the blend is extremely seamless, in that you can't tell the bass is not coming from the LS bass bins. Occasionally on sub-bass (below ~20Hz) it is a little evident that the subs are in the mix, but only on certain electronic music, etc. Optimal placement was done using extensive work with Anthem ARC room correction & my Anthem AVM 60 (using the spot measurement tool) but there is no DSP/room correction done on the subs at this point. I have a totally independent & separated HT system with Monitor Audio Gold speakers and SVS SB16 Ultra/JL Audio e112 subs that does use Anthem Room Correction and it is awesome. But no way for 2 channel music.14 hours ago, Bubo said:Before you touch the LaScalas I would get your hands on an equalizer and experiment, bumping up 400hz on mine makes a noticeable difference. E bay or something like the dbx listed above.
Thanks - I don't mess with EQ as mentioned before, I am really happy with the Chord digital stack & Luxman tube amp and don't want to further alter the signal - However, I am a Roon user and it does have parametric EQ options so I will experiment with that based on your results! Additionally I have some pretty extensive room treatment with acoustic panels, scatter plates, bass traps, etc. It makes a huge difference!
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13 hours ago, Dave A said:
There have to be some up there and I will be interested in your comments.
I'll definitely post an update. I am really interested in hearing them!
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22 minutes ago, Shiva said:
That is a very nice looking room, Well done👍 I like the acoustic panels on the wall and the big listening couch to chill in. A fairly aggressive toe in. Are you feeling that the mids and highs are a little too aggressive sounding and envision taking it down a few db?
Thanks! I actually move that Eames replica into the center of the room (in front of the couch) every night for critical listening. The couch is primarily home theater use. I did find that the best placement in this room was directly in the corners... I struggled a bit with soundstage and imaging when trying to get a toe-in with them flat against that back wall. They are about 45º toe-in right now, pretty much right over the opposite shoulders when I am sitting in the main listening position. Raising the fronts slightly with Orea pucks helped by better utilizing the first and second reflection panels and really tightened up the sound.
I don't find the mids/highs very aggressive at all with this placement. What I do find, regardless of positioning, is that on certain mid-high timbres of vocalists and some instruments, there is a slightly aggressive overtone/ring frequency that seems a bit forward. It's not what I would call treble-y or sharp... just a bit of an unnatural resonance in an otherwise perfectly balanced midrange. Those overtones could be what @Dave A was talking about when he mentioned certain things about the mids that the Cornwall IVs handle better than the La Scalas.
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10 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:
It was La Scala AL5 not La Scala ll we listened to.
Everyone must also remember the La Scala AL5 would benefit more from boundary loading versus the Cornwall lV so that should be taken into consideration when forming opinions during this demonstration IMHO since optimum performance would usually mean closer placement to walls or corner for the La Scala.
I was there as well and while I agree that the Cornwall lV is significantly improved over its predecessor and should definitely be an option for you to consider but with that said I still preferred the horn loaded LF over the direct radiator sound even though it doesn’t extend as low on its own.
Disclaimer: I actually own the LaScala AL5 and have spent several months with them so this event wasn’t my first exposure to them.
Try to be patient and see if you can listen to them for yourself to see what you prefer and just as importantly what will sound best in your room and system since ultimately they all have to work together to achieve the sound you desire.
miketn
Very true about boundary. I recently made a change with my positioning by raising the front of the La Scalas very slightly with a couple of Orea pucks under each front corner. This resulted in a noticeable difference in sound which I attribute to better directional absorbtion by the first and second reflection acoustic panels, as well as raising the tweeters slightly above ear level. This really cleaned up the sound quite a bit and resulted in better detail and a "firmer" sound.
I'll definitely give the CW IV a fair shot/listen... I realize a lot of this is subjective to listener preferences. I have had several people swear up and down that in their experience the Cornwall IIIs sound better than the La Scala IIs. This obviously was not my experience. But it stands to reason others may prefer the sound of the CW IV to the AL5 LS as well.
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3 hours ago, Dave A said:
Is Knoxville to far to drive?
It's about an 8 hour round trip. I'm going to be in the DC area for CAF next weekend and I'm asking around my audiophile group up there if anyone has a pair I could listen to.
FS: Special Edition Heresy III; East Indian Rosewood
in Garage Sale
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SOLD!