Soundthought

Hi all, I would like to know how I can safely run more than one speaker off one channel? I've heard about it for some time, but quite honestly, I don't know squat about 2 channel. I've been wrapped up in the HT world, but the more I read your posts, the more I want to learn about it. My first passion has always been 2 channel listening. H.T. is a pain in the arse. but IMO, there's a big future in it. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Another thing to note about Klipsch or other horn loaded loudspeakers, Horns are designed to focus sound in a particular dispersion pattern whereas cones tend to radiate in a 360' pattern. The result of horn loading is that more sonic information is being relayed directly to the listener without as many room interactions. A.K.A "The Harshness" or "Brightness" Also, the difference in sound is between the time you hear the direct sound, and the time you hear the 1st and 3rd order reflections. It varies between a cone and a horn. The result is a brighter sound from the horn. I like to think of it as "accurate" sound. I took me sometime to get used to, but now i'm hooked and nothing else sounds as good as a high frequency horn. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

I asked my Quartets' to marry me, They didn't say a word. Just ran off with a pair of moondogs, never to be heard from again. sniff. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen. This message has been edited by Audioreality on 07-30-2002 at 07:02 PM

No joke. Choosing the set up that works for you can be a major pain. I've went through 36 sets of speakers and still find myself questioning my decisions (occasioally). Yeah , I am enjoying messing with those guys over there. They're a little less serious about their gear, but just as passionate about their sound. I think it has something to do with Investment vs. Personal Importance. I'm glad to see your exploring your options. It's important to do your homework on these issues. It can save time and money. Time: to play with your gear more. Money: to buy more gear to play with. BTW i've heard the PS650. It does rock! ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Your right Danny, and yep, there are no mentions of cabling in the above posts. Sure, personally, i'm very much for understanding Cable Theory and such. I believe it "can" make severals differences on several levels given the right circumstances. I think many of us are cabled out. The thought required to accurately understand some of the signal transfer/cabling concepts is tiresome at best. I'm just not in the mood to don the plate mail and sword to battle the evil non-believers.LoL. Just not right now, anyway John. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Hi Scott, Did you notice how many Polksters had good things to say about Klipsch? I really like the parts about how Klipsch is an "in your face speaker" and "really puts you there". Oh, how true it is. But of course, if you want the laid back, put you to sleep, softer tone loudspeaker, then i guess you know where to go. Ha Ha Ha Ha . I too, have gone through the exact same thing you are going through. Gotta get your moneys' worth in sound quality. Aside from my currently expanding klipsch inventory, I also have some Polks, Vegas, Pioneers, JBLs, RCAs, Jensens, and Missions. Nothing really fancy, just cheap enough to justify buying them. For experimental purposes only. LOL. Well, needless to say, i've now invested a small fortune into my Klipsch. I wish i could have gotten into this before the reference line came out. Some of the stuff in the legend line in awesome. I'm currently looking at a pair of KLF-30s, unfortunately the guy wants too much for them. Tough decision. Hate putting good money after bad. Maybe he's flexible. We'll see Congratulations on your decision. I hope you get the sound your looking for. Enjoy the sh** out of whatever you choose! ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Talk about anxious. Looks like something I'd do. You know what they say, "Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do." ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Hello my fellow Klipsch lovers. This is a little poem I wrote, some ten or so, years ago. I was a senior in H.S. and had an intresting perspective on life. Just a little something different for you all. Crowded Individual I am a man. A man who knows no rules. Why was I born to prewritten laws? Crowded. Are we cattle in lives pen, rounded up for a governmental feast? A feast into our minds and our pockets. Why? Why am I different from the man? The man that runs the controls, the man that pulls the strings. Am I an individual, is the man my god? But, he is no more a man than I. Yet, he tells me what to do. I am crowded. Crowded in an emptiness of life, floating in a political fishbowl. I am a crowded individual. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Intresting story Bill. Wonderful outcome. Talk about the right place at the right time. Chalk it up to an intervention of fate. Or at least, damn good luck. Enjoy those babies. For like many of a generation past have said, "They don't make em' like they used to" Although, I think it's technically referred to as EVOLUTIONARY ADVANCEMENTS. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Howdy. I'm not sure of the links but here's a couple of companies that make Acoustic absorbing/diffusing materials. 1. Sonex. (Illbruck acoustic products) 2. ASC. (Acoustic Sciences Corporation) 3. Owens-Corning. 4. Quest Technologies. 5. R.P.G. Diffusor Systems Basically, without having to buy expensive absorbers and diffusors, you could hang some pictures, get another or a larger rug, hang drapes over windows, or trying putting your mains deeper into the corners. These are just a few basics that apply to most room situations. A little trick for sub placement to maximize bass response in your sweet spot is to physically place your sub at or very near to your prime listening position. Then walk all around the room until you feel the best response. It could be in one or more places. Simply place the sub in the location you felt the best thump. That should be the best spot. Although it is not always the most favored spot, it genuinely would be the best. There are many, many thoughts and ideas concerning sub placement. More details on your rooms' layout, constuction and furnishings are needed to make an accurate assesment. The above suggestion on placement usually produces good results. Enjoy your system. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Monster is scary. Turns your wallet into a money munchin' beast. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

No No No You want the XP37 super wonder wire 2000 with depleted urainium core and advanced synthetic snakeskin titainium inlaid kevlar. Bi-wired of course. These cables are so advanced, all you have to do it put them by the speaker and they hook THEMSELVES up. P.S. Enjoy you system. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

That's the spirit Dean. I'm glad to hear your giving it another shot. Have some fun with it. It think it's the most intresting tweek i've ever seen. (next to the old "kleenex in the throat of your horn" tweek) Ha Ha. I also think it looks really cool. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Gil, Thanks for taking the time to explain these principles. Excellent analogies. Especially the last one. With that I formally withdraw my position on bi-wiring attenuating IMD. Now I must divert my attention to other possibilties of bi-wire functionality. So, when used in conjuntion with Bi-wirable speaker inputs, can bi-wiring have some specific benefit on any level? Why did Klipsch and other companies start utilizing bi-wirable inputs? It certainly can't be cost effective, unless your trying to boost speaker wire sales It most likely wasn't for the purposes of bi-amping. PWK didn't really see any benefit from bi-amping. Plus IMO this new line of bi-wired speakers isn't marketed for the elite, rather to the average joe. Generally speaking, the average joe can't afford bi-amping, rather he/she could afford bi-wires or at least another set of wires. It's kind of perplexing. So if it was for the purposes of bi-wiring, then why? My other position on this subject deals with tonal characteristics of speaker cable. Naturally occuring frequency separation could allow for specifically designed wire to induce that separation within itself. Even fractional amounts of separation reduces the load on the crossover. Possibly avioding any slight insertion loss. I still believe that some level of transient harmonics is gained by bi-wiring. That would explain the responses from various people claiming to hear more or greater detail and a refined bass. Well, obviously this could be attibuted to the regaining or previously "skinned" supersonic frequencies. It might be that these unheard frequencies help articulate detail and clean up bass by allowing for a fuller harmonic output. (putting some edge back in there). At least this is my current understanding. What do you think? Rebuttal? You see, i'm searching for my audioreality. I just haven't quite found it yet! Maybe, I left it in the sock drawer. Hmmm. P.S. My wothless web browser won't let me see most posts in a thread. I was fortunate to be able to read your post Gil. Usually, i can't get this far down the page, so chances are I wont be able to read your response. If you don't mind, could you start another thread on this topic so we can keep our debate going? Dude, I need a dell...LOL..sigh. Just not ready for it yet, still like doing it the old fashioned way. Pen-Paper-File Cabinet. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

I agree, since the recent elimination of what's construed as the bourgeoisie, one generalized rule has become prevalent over all others. The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rule! Take it for what it's worth. ------------------ You should of heard just what I've seen.

Quite interesting Gil. You hypothesis is true. A good read BTW! Yeah that number keeps on truckin. I'm having a hard time disputing the numbers. The numbers can't lie, thats a fact. But does the small amount that's rolled off in any way help build harmonics? In terms of articulation of higher frequencies and sculpting and texturizing lower ones. Doesn't the fractional high octave loss somehow affect the overall sound quailty? Even though it's inaudible and basically immeasurable, does it not have some harmonic value? What do you think of frequency specific cable? Or cable directionality? This topic is quite interesting. Your feedback has been duly noted and quite appreciated.

Know the feeling, like your post. "Even worse there are people who have no Kilpsch at all" Sad but true. We must all band together to spread the joy of Klipsch. I have a vision of a pair of Klipsch for every boy and girl in the world. I'd like to teach the world to hear in perfect harmony. Klipsch could make that so. My question is once we reach our pinnacle of Klipschdom (Horn Ed comes to mind) what then are we to do aside from some hearty listening? No more upgrade, no more bigger, better, badder nothing. Huh. I want some Khorns too, can't have them in my little (750sq ft.) bungalow. But, if I did then where to go from there? One of my friends is reading over my shoulder as i'm writing this and saying, "That's simple, all you do is Shut Up and Listen". Most profound statement he's ever said and so true. I agree, Thank you PWK.

Hello Gentlemen, Just read this post and wanted to say that I Love My Quartets! They sound great on any source i've hooked them too. I seem to always go back to them for musical comfort. Mix that with some Southern Comfort and you got a relaxing mix. Unfortunately, I need the crossover rebuilt in one and a passive woof in the other. Klipsch will rebuild the crossover for a flat rate, but the woofer is no longer available. I wonder why? Seems like these speakers should last for a while. Any suggestions on a suitable replacement? BTW I've got my set up 6ft apart and 6ft from me with 11in. from the back wall and 1in. from the sidewalls. Sounds phenominal. Blissful. I try not to question why. Never sniff a gift fish.

Yep. You got it. A thicker, less stranded or solid cable is used for LF. A thinner, more stranded, and possibly braided and/or twisted wire for HF. The debate is still on if this is fact or fiction The physics aren't easy to understand. The concept is deep. I've been studying Quantum Reality. It is the search for a single image that does justice to our new knowledge of how the world actually works. Talk about some extremely deep physics. "The essential point in science is not a complicated mathematical formulization or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty that springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on" Saul-Paul Sirag

I don't know how many pounds in magnets I have but I've got 36 pairs of speakers. Talk about whole house magnetic therapy. Come to think of it, since i got my 7.2 Reference set-up, my arthritis has mysteriously vanished. Poof...Gone.. What a trip. Probably more due to this later stage of speaker addiction i'm experiencing. They say the head and nerves are first to go. Oh Sh**, here it comes again. I can't help myself! Gotta have my speaker fix!

That's what i said when got my RF7s and RC7. "Damn this sounds right" That eagles DVD is excellent. You might want to try: 1. Music for Monserrat. 2. The Who at Royal Albert Hall. Actually, just about everthing i've heard recorded at Royal Albert Hall sounds great. 3.Frampton Live in Detriot. 4.Steely Dan (Two against nature) this one is exceptional. 5.Styx (Return to Paradise) 6.Sting (Brand New Day Tour) 7.Sammy Hagar (Cobo Wabo B-day Bash) Those are some of my favorites. Not just for sound quality but content. Enjoy you new speakers.

Gil, Nice post. Good food for thought. I've been studying cable theory and such for just a short period of time. Ever since I got my bi-wireable RF7s, I've been determined to understand it. But i will try my best to discuss this contraversal issue with you. Yes, i am a proponent of bi-wiring. The IM debate has been going on for something like 30 years. Leave it to the SMPTE. Apparently what can be measured may not be heard. Without going into elaborate detail my understanding is that the requirement for speaker cable is not very different than that of zip cord. PWK argued that his whole life. While it is true that actual signal loss due to wire resistance depends on the impedance of the load, even a relatively slight impedence in the speaker cable significantly lowers the damping factor seen at the speaker. Although this is only particulary noticable in long cable runs. It is still always relavent in faithful sound reproduction. We need not talk about "skinning" My thinking is that since different types and sizes of wire have different resonating frequencies, within proper bi-wire, frequency separation due to particular resonant factors of different cables can occur and thus putting less strain on a passive crossover. With bi-wireable speaker inputs we now can even appropriate the frequecies(more or less) to the right network within the crossover. As far as i can tell, the straighter and less obstucted the signal path, the more faithful the sound reproduction. I believe also that bi-wiring help reduce distortion that might be cuased by objectional harmonics. Namely-3rd-5th-7th order. While it's true they're produced by circutry not cables, the subsequent intrduction of new harmonics puts a higher demand on the crossover. Reducing the HD by allowing natural frequency separation should allow for less distortion. Ever so miniscule as it may be. It still allows for a cleaner signal path. And again, the less demand on the crossover, the more faithfull the reproduction. It's like pennies. Indivdually they're relatively worthless, collectively they have noticable value. Such is tweaks like bi-wire. What do you think? Intruging? How do frequencies relate within one conductor? I seem to be having a difficult time sorting that one out.

No doubt. I was thinking of running jumpers off my old Miller arc welder. Just to see them glow. This guy I know told me he used to plug his old kenwoods into the wall socket. To test for power fluctuations. LOLx2 He said it made some crazy humming sounds. Really...Huh...no kidding? He's a dipsh** anyway, but that's just nuts. But it does kinda sound like fun. Hmmm..Where are those Smose dual cube bookends anyhow? I think it's playtime.

You could try an experiment. Sort of like Lynnm suggestion. Bi-wire one RF7 with both your Indiglo cables and then adjust your balance to the bi-wired side only. Listen for a while to different sources. Take in a variety of material Then remove the 2nd wire and replace the straps. Compare the differences. You may be suprized. Then again you may hear no difference at all. It's hard to say. I personally run "Straight Wire-Sextet" which is internally bi-wired on my RF7s and RC7. The science behind how it works is complicated for sure, but the sound sure tells me a simple story. psst....keep this quiet but bi-wiring works...pass it on. LOL. Have fun with your system.

I agree with Doug. Go for the system 6 set up. IMO it has a fuller, richer sound. Probably, because they have an overall better frequency response than the Quints. Quintets: Main/surround - 100Hz-20k Center - 120Hz-20k KSW12 - 26Hz-100Hz System 6: SB1 - 60Hz-20k SS.5 - 70Hz-20k SC.5 - 70Hz-20k KSW10 - 29Hz-120Hz Both are good combonations Good luck with your choice.