[Reproducing strings]

I’m in the process of building new cabinets for my 402’s, (going from vertical to horizontal). When back in room my plan is to spend time positioning and listening more off access. Positioning is one thing I haven’t explored much.

[Reproducing strings]

13 hours ago, tromprof said:

Maybe you just have good ears and iffy recordings

Ha, I think bad ears and some bad recordings.  I do find classical recordings in general are all over the place. I spend a lot of time on Qobuz sampling different recordings!

[Altec 604 coaxial]

Hi,

Not Klipsch, but I’m sure there’s some with Altec experience. Anybody have any experiences with the Altec, or current Great Plains Audio, 604 Coaixal?

I’ve become interested in the idea of building a set of speakers with these drivers and biamping them with active XO’s.  
Lots of love for these drivers on Altec forum, but looking for comparisons to Klipsch.

thanks

 

[An attempt to build K-402-MEH clone in wood]

similar to @NBPK402 I built 402 MEH’s vertically and have lived with them for 6mo or so.  I’m currently building boxes for them to go horizontal.  Vertical had several problems in my room.

With 8’ ceilings I measured substantial ceiling/floor reflections. Also at 10’ from speakers the directivity can be an issue. You move from on axis to nothing pretty quickly as you walk around.
Im currently listening to them without any box, but horizontal, and reflections under 25 ms are much less, (from 1000hz and up).
Without boxes the sound is nowhere as full or robust, but I expected that. I do think the mids and highs are improved due to decreased reflections, but it’s confusing because the bass is so radically different without boxes. 
With tall ceilings and a listening position >15’ the problems I experienced would probably be minimized. 

[Reproducing strings]

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has found a way to get the tone of violins/cellos out of Klipsch?  My modified Cornwalls, and MEH 402’s both do so many things so good, even orchestral works, but I cannot get the tone or articulation needed to reproduce solo strings or string quartets.  They all have a somewhat metallic sound, and not much of the body of the violin/cello comes through.  It’s not bad, but it’s not exceptional.

wondering if this is something not suited to horns/compression drivers?

I love the sound of both speakers, the dynamics are so important to me, but looking to really hear the sound of the wood in a violin.

I have my equipment listed in profile, I don’t think electronics are the problem, but who knows. 
move heard some people say Klipsch are not for strings, but maybe they’re using a k77 still, (screech!)

just wondering if anybody has achieved this. 
possibly looking at Harbeth, Tannoy, Magnepan as a second pair for listening to string quartets only.

Ted.

 

[First Watt]

45 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Single ended amplifiers are my favorites and the F8 is a great one!! Power Jfet output and current feedback topology yes please. Great design!!

I’ve only had one SET tube amp, but this really has some similar characteristics. 

[First Watt]

Got a F8 hooked up. OMG!  I find it both smoother and clearer than my F3 and Xa25.  Somehow it is more transparent than the xa25, but smoother.  Clearer and more aggressive than the F3, but just as smooth, or smoother.

this is better in all categories for my system. Did just what I wanted, smoother, but more clear and transparent at the same time.

[What I Got Today!]

10 hours ago, rplace said:

Got these "plus" what they connect to. Plus in quotes should be a clue

 

 

 

 

How’s the Gaia working out? I have a T2, wondering how adding Gaia would change things. Thanks

[15” Woofer choices]

16 hours ago, StevePaul said:

The answer is (as with everything else) a definite "maybe they will make a difference".  The very low inductance of the Acoustic Elegance woofers voice coils comes into to play, the higher in frequency your design expects out of the woofer.  I ran the numbers on the AE TD15M-4 ($459-$599) as a possible replacement for the K48 in my Chorus II (if they ever give out), compared to the FaitalPro 15PR400-4, for about 50% of the price ($271) of the AE ...which also has a voice coil with vary low inductance. 

 

For example, the TD15M-4 has an Le of .20mH.  The 15PR400-4 has an Le of .60mH.  The K48 has an Le of 1.00mH.  

 

Below 300hz...the difference in the freq curve (when Le is taken into account) is very little.  The F3 is about the same and the SPL at 300hz is close.  But, at 300-400hz and higher, the low Le of the AE begins to have a telling affect.  Below is a little chart I ran using Unibox (I like this little program).  Notice how the higher in frequency the woofer goes, the more the Le rolls off the SPL's.  At 400hz the K48 is starting to roll off the higher it goes, while the AE SPL's are staying the same.  Where that comes into play is when your woofer meets a Mid/Tweet at between 400-800hz.  The AE will have a minimum SPL 3-4db greater SPL in this region (all other things being equal) compared to the K48 with the higher VC inductance...which makes mating the woofers and tweeter with crossovers 'maybe' easier.  I think it can be said that the frequencies between 300hz and 800hz will have more 'presence' than with the K48 in the Chorus II.

 

I would imagine that at 300-400hz and below, box tuning can mitigate any frequency related differences between the woofers.  Distortion figures are probably lower in the AE and FaitalPro, but whether or not it could be heard in the 50hz-350hz region is debatable.  I have reviewed every Eminence woofer that might replace the K48 and none of them (on paper) are the equal of the TD15M-4 or 15PR400-4 (or K48)....although at 50% to 75% cheaper, the Eminence woofers are the obvious better value.  

 

If you have the cash and are crossing over above 400hz, as a direct radiator, the AE TD15M-4 and the FaitalPro 15PR400-4 are just plain hard to beat.  Neither of them bests the K48 in the lower regions below 100hz.  The K48 is a beast down there.  If I had the money, I would purchase the AE TD15M-4 (but I don't).  In the future, I will most likely purchase the FaitalPro 15PR400-4.   FWIW....these are some facts and figures, with my added in opinions.  I could be all wet, but I don't think so.  YMMV>

 

100.4	101.3	98.2	2.83V
96.8	97.6	95.5	1W1M
1	1	1		# of Woofers
2	2	2		No. of Ports
4	4	4		Port Diam
4.1	4.1	8.00		Port Length
120	120	140		Vb
47	48	35		Fb
46	49	43		F3
0.73	0.82	0.98		Peak db
77	83	117		Peak at hz
95.4	95	94		SPL @ 50hz
97.0	98	96.2		SPL @ 200hz
96.8	97.8	95		SPL @ 400hz
FaitalPro	AE	Klipsch
15PR400-4	TD15M-4	K48

 

 

 

I’m trying to digest this.  Im trying to listen to the lower frequencies and determine if the slight “muddyness” I hear is the drivers, room acoustics, or something else.  I have 6” absorbent bass traps in corners behind speakers, that helped.  

[15” Woofer choices]

I seen a lot of comparisons on the forum between Eminence, Crites, and Klipsch woofers, but extremely little on any other brands. Also lots of discussions on how to get lower frequencies, but not so much about articulation, speed or tone.

Thanks

[15” Woofer choices]

Hi,

With more experience with active XO controlling my 402 MEH I’m learning more about Frequecy related to musical instruments.  The realization that 1/2 the piano, a lot of the cello, all the bass, etc are within my 600 hz woofer cut off, I’m understanding a great deal of “musicality” is coming from this driver, not just the “thump”.

 

So I’m researching if a woofer upgrade would make a difference in articulation and subtlety.

 

Wondering about Acoustic Elegance and if anybody has tried them and if the extra $ gets you better clarity, articulation, separation?
Or if any other brands/models have created an improvement for people.

 

currently using Eminence Kappa 15a powered by PS Audio m700 class D amp.

thanks for any experience you can share.

[Double Stack ESS AMT-1 with Wings--Possible Kit for Heritage]

Hi, 

just got a or of AMT 1’s . Just set them on top of my 402 MEH’s. Set up as 3 way active crossovers. Set the EQ, time aligned them, crossing over at about 2500hz to start. Sound is different than Celestion running as a 2way.  Feel like it is smoother tone wise, adds more ambiance, (I suppose due to the rear facing configuration) 

find I can EQ treble closer to flat without getting “edgy” sounding highs.

So far I’m very happy.  Will continue to work on finding the best crossover point. 
Ted

[Cables made a difference]

7 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Yes. Even within the same production batch of the assembly line there is a tolerance which is why the datasheet gives "average characteristics".

 

I was measuring my Telefunken 12AX7's the other day, I have about 20 of them left and in the same test circuit measured at the same output level and frequency they were anywhere between 2% THD to 5% THD. And to complicate matters the ones that tested at higher THD% didn't show the same FFT spectrum on my distortion analyzer. Two tubes with 3.5% THD where one is almost all second harmonic will sound different than the other that has more third and higher harmonics.

 

I tend to focus on tube brand and production years for longevity and consistency, that's it. After that I just test them in circuit to find the best for the application. For example the ones I tested at 2% THD and were mainly just second harmonic go into my phono preamp for best results. The ones testing higher are fine as phase inverters, followers even guitar amp duty.

I’m not being sarcastic, but can we quantify why some tubes are smooth, bright, dark, harsh, have more “air”, etc?

[Cables made a difference]

One serious question.  Do tubes produce measurable differences. Say a new 6sn7 and a NOS from the 50’s?

Ive really never heard if they do, nobody seems to talk about measurable differences. 

[Cables made a difference]

I believe in the scientific method to understand the universe. That said, we are learning more about subtle forces every year.  Understanding the universe is a ongoing process.

Also, psychology is very powerful.  If someone believes their system sounds better with a 500$, or 5000$, cable, then does it? My wife thinks our Alexa sounds great, I don’t. Who is right?  
 

[Cables made a difference]

Is there any merit to the idea that there are still some properties of electrical signals we cannot yet measure? 

[Cables made a difference]

4 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Which speaker cable were you using before the Duelund? And which Dueland did you choose, flat silver, tinned multi-strad copper, or solid copper? What length was the original speaker cables compared to the new Duelund cables?

 

I firmly believe cables make very little difference, specifically interconnects, speaker cables more so and I am very interested in easily figuring out the differences, usually geometrical differences sometimes insulation. Of course true for all types is length and diameter.

Was using Blue jeans cable 12ga copper. Went to Deulund 12ga tin plated stranded copper.

had BJC interconnects  before Cardas Parsec.
 

 Wouldn’t even try to persuade anybody, but it helped me.

[Cables made a difference]

Recently made some cable changes in my system that took some “edginess” out of my sound. Installed Cardas Parsec interconnects from my Dac to preamp and Deulund 12ga wire for my HF driver in my 2 way k402 MEH.  
Sound is smoother, but no less transparent. 
I have been using First Watt F3 prior, but now put my Pass Xa25 back in. The Ax25 was previously a little “edgy”,  but with the new cables the sound is clear, and smoother. 
A great upgrade for me! YMMV

[Psvane 6SN7-UK]

On 10/16/2021 at 6:00 PM, Schu said:

Any report on these? Look like Grant Fidelity.  What do you think of them?

[Digital front end upgrade]

Hi,

wondering if anyone has tried any high end digital streamers, or DDC’s and noticed a worthwhile difference. I’m using a Bluesound 2i with Terminator 2  Dac. Very noticeable improvement over laptop and previous Orchid Dac.  I love so much about horns, but smoothness doesn’t seem like a chief attribute of horns.  

Trying to increase smoothness without adding a veiled or muddy sound.
I rotate between a Pass XA25 and FW F3, with and Aric Audio 6sn7 pre. 

Just looking for experiences with high end digital front ends.

Ted

[Active X0 settings]

11 hours ago, LTusler said:

Have you looked into the Harman Curve?

I just did. Interesting, that’s what I’m asking about. Wondering if flat is the best for all speakers, all rooms?

[Active X0 settings]

Hi,

wondering if any users of active networks have found any beneficial settings that purposely decorate from flat.
I’m still hearing a little edginess and starting to experiment with lowering frequencies that seem abrasive.  I feel like the 2k region can get a little edgy, and I’m rolling off the 6k plus a few dB.

anybody find any settings that give more smoothness?

thanks, Ted

[A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn]

1 hour ago, NBPK402 said:

I am able to get mine a few inches from my corner bass traps by running mine on their sides.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 

So you turned yours horizontal?  Did you get better soundstage? Or just more cohesive sound?

[A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn]

Question about active crossovers. The more understand about frequency related to music, I am wondering how crossover points  between compression drivers and paper cone woofers are determined. It seemed the determining factor was the limitation of the drivers. With a compression driver that can go to 300hz and woofers good to 1000hz+, would it be beneficial run the CD down to 300hz ?  
I will experiment, just wondering if anybody has ideas on the subject?

Ted

[Anyone using a DDC with their Dac]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:38 PM, rooze said:

Hi,

I just picked up a Denafrips Gaia to go with my Terminator II DAC. I'm still waiting on the BNC clock cables to arrive, but running I2S 'unclocked' is a nice improvement over the standard USB. However, I'm using a Sonic Transporter i5 music server with a Sonore UltraRendu. The Gaia is replacing the Sonore UltraDigital, and to be honest, at this point without the clock cables, there isn't a real noticeable difference. Hopefully the clock cables will make the difference in cost between the Gaia and UltraDigital worth the money.

Im interested in the Gaia to go with my Terminator 2.  What are “BNC clock cables”? Do most go single I2S cable from Gaia to Dac? I’m confused about the terminology.

thanks, Ted