redwood forest

The Placette Preamp is not the problem, although it may sound better with an active preamp. The JBL tweeters are not the problem either. I turned them off and the problem remained. The problem is with the squawker. It sounds muffled with AA and AL-3 crossovers and shrill with the AlKs. The conclusion from several responses back is that I'm going to try attenuating the squawker with Al's crossover. I've given up with the Klipsch crossovers all together since there is no way to unmuffle the squawker using the Klipsch crossovers. Les P.S.: You guys started the "golden foot" problem with your wise cracks. I'm willing to set it aside. Can't you do the same?

Yes Dean, It's the AlK universal that I'm using along with the Klipsch AL-3.

I just bought the JBL tweeters, because the Klipsch tweeters were too grainy and not smooth at all. The improvement from the JBL tweeter is overwhelming. I came to the same conclusion a few minutes ago about your procedure to lower the squawker level. I'll just do it more slowly now. What level did you end up with on the squawker, and what else did you do to end up in hog heaven?I have ordered Al's trachorns. As soon as they come in I can add that to the equation.

I'm using the JBL 2404 tweeter. The squawker used in the LaScalas is the K-55M; in the Khorns, it's the K55V. I shut down all the Tweeters, but the problem remains so the problem seems to be in the squawker. I switched the squawkers with the different crossovers, and the problem remains. The AlK is always shrill, and the AL-3 is always muffled. How can the different crossovers make the squawkers sound so differently? Will new V-caps make a difference. Are the crossover frequencies different?

I'm confused. Are you saying to switch Al's caps for Dean's V caps?

Jay, the source is the Proceed CDP CD player. Pete, How do I find out about Dean's V-Caps and where can I get them? Mike, the tweeter is the JBL 2404 so you can't do better unless you spend $1200 per tweeter. The JBL is 3dB louder than the Klipsch tweeter so I'm using an L pad to tame it down. The amps are Mark Levenson 334 so you can't do much better than that. As for tubes, don't go there please. Been there, done that. I'll try your -6.2dB setting suggestion. The problem may be the room which I'm checking into.

Al's universal crossover is way too shrill for me. I tried attenuating the tweeter with no luck. That cut out the high frequency detail. I tried switching the squawker wires from it's transformer with no luck. Altering the squawker level lowered or raised the relative bass output. The Klipsch AL-3 crossover was simply too nasal with vertually no detail in the upper range compaired to Al's crossover which was quite open, but unfortunately too shrill. What is really weird is that the two crossovers working together with two pairs of speakers (one Khorn, one LaScala) and two identical ML334 amps sounded very good. The inside speakers were nasal, and the outside speakers were shrill, but the overall sound was perfect. Is there some way to get a compromise with the crossovers to get the sound right without having to do this stupid mixing of sounds? Les

I don't know either. I'll wait for the vedict before I get the extreme slope crossover. I'm using an L pad to control the level of the JBL 2404 tweeter to match it with everything else. It seems to work OK. Les

I have the JBL 2404h tweeter. I have Al's Type A replacement crossover. Now all that I need is Al's Trackhorn and I'll be all set. Would Al's Extreme Slope crossover be better or is that pushing it? Les

..."most folks typically worry about squawker horn and then worry about the squawker driver. The choice of horn will probably (I said probably) make a larger difference (I said difference not necessarily an improvement) rather than the driver. I would not limit yourself to just JBL products." I know that Martinelli and AlK have wooden horns used with Khorns. Al's cost about $500 a pair, whereas the Matinelli horn costs more than $1000 a piece. Would you recommend either of these as a squawker replacement?

I just replaced the Khorn tweeter driver with a JBL 2404H and I noticed a HUGE improvement. I'm wondering why Klipsch doesn't have these as standard tweeter drivers in their Khorns, but that's another thread. Right now I'm more interested in finding out what JBL squawker driver I could use to be a match with the new JBL tweeter. It appears that the JBL drivers are superior to the ones used in the Khorns. Sorry Klipsch, but those are the facts as I see it.

Thanks Dr. Who and Hard Head, however, I'm trying to avoid pots entirely and use a preamp for the center channel volume control. Thanks Sea Dog for the forum thread from the archives concerning center channel mono. I think Al K won the debate with his three resistor configuration. Two 33K ohm resistors going from left and right inputs to center channel out with a 12K ohm resistor to ground. The 12K ohm resistor could be changed a bit to get the center volume just right. The left and right inputs have leads that go directly to the left and right outputs with no changes.

Let me see if I have this right. I eliminate the 27K ohm resistors and the 25K ohm pots going to both the right and left outputs, and run wires straight from the inputs to the outputs on both left and right sides. I then connect 27K ohm resistors to both left and right inputs and join the two resistors in the middle. From this junction point, I run a wire to the middle output, and a 25K ohm resistor to ground. Will this allow me to have all three speakers at the same volume? In my system, all three speakers will be equal distances apart and equal distances to the sweet spot.

I plan on making the mini box myself. I'm no electrical engineer, but I used to make amplifiers from kits a long time ago when that was fashionable. Probably Mark followed PWK's plans to the letter. I like pushing the envelope and trying new approaches. I like talking with the "good guys". It's refreshing to get nonsarcastic, constructive criticism from forum members.

I have a pair of Khorns with a pair of LaScalas positioned in the center. At present the LaScalas are part of a simple two channel setup with each working with it's adjacent Khorn. I would like to change the LaScalas to a mono center channel configuration using PWK's mini box. In the "Dope From Hope" papers, there are four 27K ohm resistors and three variable 25K ohm pots. A note at the bottom says that the two flanking pots can be changed to fixed resistors by setting the Khorns at -6dB and leaving the center variable pot to adjust the volume of the mono center speaker. I have another preamplifier which I prefer to use to control the center channel volume instead of using the variable pot in the mini box plans. My question is how can the variable pots be replaced by fixed resistors to to meet the new criteria? What value should the new fixed resistors have before and after the inputs for the Khorns to make them a constant -6dB, and for the center speaker to allow for the use of a preamp instead of the variable pot?

NOSVALVES: The Placette Preamplifier got the GOLDEN GLOBE AWARD in 2000 for it's transparency in sound quality as opposed to your GOLDEN MOUTH AWARD for sticking your foot in it! Of course I meant GOLDEN EAR AWARD! (Insert foot in mouth)

NOSVALVES: The Placette Preamplifier got the GOLDEN GLOBE AWARD in 2000 for it's transparency in sound quality as opposed to your GOLDEN MOUTH AWARD for sticking your foot in it!

OK guys, thanks for your discretion and diplomacy. Never the less, the system works quite well for me.

The problem with Khorns being placed in the corner of any room is that the sweet spot has to be 90 degrees to the two speakers. No wonder there is a problem with imaging. Speakers are suppose to be in an equilateral triangle with the sweet spot in order to get proper imaging. Even with center speakers, the setup won't work. If the sweet spot is facing all three speakers, the center speakers will be too close, the Khorns will be too far away, and the listening field is still 90 degrees which too wide for realism. Do you think recording studios set up microphones 90 degrees to the listening position? I don't think so! The only way that Khorns will provide proper imaging is to place them within an equilateral triangle with the sweet spot. In other words place them 60 degrees apart. OK so what do you do about the 32 Hz bass without corners? Now you have to create a false corner behind each Khorn with material dense enough to reflect the bass and not resonate. Two inches of dense fiberboard glued together will work perfectly. In my humble opinion, imaging is still lacking with the above ideal setup. Place two LaScalas in the center with each LaScala connected to it's adjacent Khorn to create two chennel stereo, and you will have imaging beyond belief. I know, because this is my setup.

The last thing that you need with Khorns is an active preamplifier (tube or solid state). With a sensitivity of 104dB/1 watt @1 meter, all that you need for a 110dB sound level is a four watt amp. A 16 watt amp will produce an ear piercing 116dB. With a 125 watt amp, I use a Placette straight line attenuator with an additional 20dB attenuator in front of that to bring the volume to a listenable range. Having additional preamplification makes no sense at all.

If you need to control separate levels of two different amplifiers you can try the following: Hook up a signal "Y" splitter in the back of your preamp, but not at the tape out since this does not control the volume. The amplifier that powers the main speakers will be connected directly to one branch of the splitter. The other branch will go to another preamp or volume control. The signal from the second preamp will go to the amp that powers the back speakers that are not as loud as the main speakers. Next, turn up the first (main) preamp to a level desired for the main speakers. Then adjust the second preamp so the back speakers are at the softer desired level. At this point you can control both amps simultaneously, but the back speakers will maintain their relative lower desired level.

I tried to use a Forte II as a center speaker with Khorns. I nearly blew out the Forte woofer, and that was at low volume. Yes, Fortes definately need subwoofers. Compared to Khorns, the Forte II sounds like a Wave radio.

checkout Ebay. Lenses show up there all the time.

Q, Nice setup. Are you planning on positioning the midrange and tweeter section on the bottom of your center Khorn? Otherwise the voices from the screen will sound like they're coming out of the ceiling.

After doing the A/B test with the La Scalas vs the Fortes as rear speakers, I have come to the conclusion that the La Scalas beat the Fortes by a mile or so. While the Fortes sound great (for a thousand dollars), they are not even close to the clarity of the La Scalas. I guess I'll keep those ugly speakers after all.