John Warren

fini-very impressive! Oona certainly was quite the looker. Nice photo. HornEd-In the back of my mind, I thought for sure you'd answer one of them. Masina is especialy interesting being Fellini's wife AND a great actress. She died in 1994. Cigarettes killed her. More to come, jw

I talked to my Walmart specialist today too. When she graduates from High School she wants to be an astronaut.

two hints> 1. Charlie Chaplin 2. She recently died (she was 74)

Hold on Tom, I'm not so sure! I can't believe there would be any "up-side" to this. Walmart suppliers adapt to suit Walmart business model, not the other way around. Klipsch paired with Goldstar, what a combo. OTOH, maybe Freddies' building that big warehouse in Hope to hold the gazillion RF-7s they need to make for the "Blue and Gray" monster. "A Klipsch in every Trailer"

right again "The Nights of Cabiria", a great Fellini movie, perhaps his best.

Mark-Clarion bought McIntosh 1991. Now you know why McIntosh is into auto sound. It is very much an axis company. (remember Pearl Harbor). This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-13-2002 at 05:49 PM

fini-you are correct! what's the name of the movie. UP-you are not correct

For once, this is something both MH and I agree on. McIntosh has gone bye-bye. Everyone that sells ths stuff knows it, customer complaints are everywhere and quality problems are huge. There are two trains of thought at McIntosh (actually Clarion), ultra high end for the Japanese market and the "boxed sheetmetal shat" for those fat-assed stupid American "Ganjees".

here is an easier one, who is she? (there is a hint)

can anyone guess who this is? This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-12-2002 at 07:14 PM

John-djk got me turned on to trying the Community M200 compression drivers on the Klispchorn. The network needs a few tweeks to change the output of the mid and tweeter xovr. I am using a pair of AA networks on these that I made a few years ago using decent components. Regarding caps, regular Solen polypropylene (nothing too fancy). I'll post some pictures of the whole thing when completed.

Gary- I have not heard AL K's networks. The components in Al K's networks are better than the factory. For LaScala you have either an AA or AL-3 network. If either of these networks were constructed from "similar" components, then a comparison would be reasonable. Again, I have not heard them but a few of the folks I communicate in NG's and other BBS's tell me that they are brighter in the mid. Some find that problematic. Remember too that Beraneck's Law is always enforced, it's subtle yet powerful. But overall, people do seem happy with the result. IMO, the mid squaker used by PWK is not a good reproducer and needs to be replaced so anything that makes it more pronounced is not good. Two pair of JBL 2123Js' can be had for $520 (tent sale). A pair on a Klipschorn used as direct radiators will produce similar efficiencies as the "autoformed" K55M but sound much better. Al publishes his network schematics on his site and even will help you build it. So that alone is a big plus if you want to learn. If you want to build your own AL-, AK- or AA- network I can send you a schematic.

Here are pics of the Hartley drivers. The heat sinks is (obviously) the tubes that protrude from the cone apex. By sinking heat to the radiation surface of the tube, the voice coil can be made smaller. (don't they look beautiful!) This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-10-2002 at 03:10 PM

bet you didn't know that you can STILL by the Hartley 24" NEW!!! $750 each with 6 month wait (read story below) Hartley was a boutique driver and system manufacturer which reached its height in the 60's during the heyday of JBL, Altec, E-V, and other legendary brands. Today, Hartley is continued as a labor of love by Richard Schmetterer in Wilmington, NC. The classic Hartley drivers are still manufactured by hand and still adhere to the same design principles as the original Hartley line. Hartley product line All Hartley drivers share some common design features: A lightweight moderately rigid cone built with a polymer-impregnated cloth base material. The surround is built on the same cloth base used for the cone, and so constitutes an integral part of the cone's structure. The surround area itself is impregnated with a high-grade silicone rubber rather than other, more common rubbers. Hartley's wide- and full-range drivers use dual voice coils - one copper and one aluminum - driving LF and HF sections of the cone respectively. The copper coil is driven directly by the signal. The aluminum coil (actually a single shorted turn) is driven by inductive coupling from the primary coil. This lightweight aluminum "coil" is free to move independently, being separated from the copper coil by a 4 mil thick compliant silicone separator. Underneath it all is the thin film iron structure of Hartley's magnetic suspension (see below). Hartley's woofers all feature long multi-layer voice coils, wound in parallel to minimize inductance. A cast aluminum frame. A strong fiberglass spider. Hartley's patented "magnetic suspension" motor which uses an exceptionally strong motor and a thin iron film embedded within the voice coil to provide most of the restoring force and damping of the cone. Hartley was also a pioneer in the use of motors with symmetrical flux, called their "EFM" (equalized flux module) technology. Hartley's monster woofers also feature a protruding aluminum "snout" which looks like a malformed phase plug. It's actually a heat sink. Hartley drivers look quite like conventional electrodynamic driver, but the magnetic suspension motor makes them quite unconventional and renders the Thiele-Small model inadequate to describe them. In a conventional driver, the suspension compliance and restoring force are supplied by the spider and surround. In the magnetic suspension motor, the spider and surround still contribute, but most of the compliance is provided by the magnetic circuit in the motor itself. This is accomplished by a thin film of iron within the voice coil structure. Obviously since compliance and the magnetic circuit are inexorably linked, not only is the Thiele-Small model rendered inadequate, but also the specific design falls into the realm of art versus science - in other words, exactly as with conventional drivers before the publication of the Thiele-Small model. Side effects of the design are that the magnetic field must highly symmetrical, resulting in lower distortion, and relative insensitivity to mounting orientation. Another side effect of the magnetic suspension motor design is a relatively wide latitude of acceptable cabinets. All Hartley drivers are designed to work in moderate to large infinite baffle (sealed) enclosures. Their performance in a vented enclosure is hard to predict and such applications are not recommended. On the other hand, they are reported to work well in TL and TQWT systems. Although the expected incremental improvements have been made over the years, the Hartley line today is essentially the same as it was 35 years ago. These drivers are: The 224HS is a monster 24" subwoofer and, along with the 18" woofer listed below, forms the backbone of the Hartley reputation. As previously noted, it features a large front-mounted heat sink for improved power dissipation. view The 218HS is the slightly smaller 18" stablemate to the monster 224HS listed above. As with the 224HS, it features a large front-mounted heat sink for improved power dissipation. view The 220HS 8" woofer is the smallest of the Hartley woofers, yet still features the large front-mounted heat sink common to the other Hartley woofers. The 220MSG is a 10" dual-cone full-range which uses the Hartley dual VC described in the introduction above. Unlike Many other full-range drivers, the 220MSG has a respectable Xmax of 9.5 mm. view The 207MSG is Hartley's least conventional driver. A 7" wide-range, dual-cone tweeter, the 207MSG uses technology similar to the only slightly larger full-range 220MSG, however, its Xmax is only 1.6 mm. view Hartley is only sold direct and has no web site.

Mark- EV "did" reintroduce the Patrician sometime in the 80's as a "Statement" system so your idea isn't that far fetched. It was not a folded horn but utilized the 30" woofer. It was called the Patrician II. FWIW, Parts Express started selling the EV "Heat-Wick" LF drivers around the same time that my contact told me that EV was planning to "offer" some goodies to the HiFi DIYer community. These drivers would actually make good hifi woofers. This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-09-2002 at 08:14 PM

Randy- Telex bought EV from Gulton. I have a contact at the Cecil Ave plant in Michigan and he tells me that the leadership has flirted on and off with re-entering the high end consumer speaker market. BTW, they still have all of the jigs and fixtures necessary to "re-introduce" the Patrician IV and ALL associated drivers.

the turns ratio of 2:1 is correct (thanks), the reflected impedance from the autoformer on the AA is 32 ohms from the literature (K55M is 16 ohms per Klipsch).

I missed the resistor. I have to work backwards here becasue I have no experimental data. if the 10 ohm resistor results in an 8 ohm squawker load presented to the amp that means that the impedance reflected back to the amp at the autoformer is about 40 ohms. So the AA presents a 40 ohm squawker impedance to the amp, the woofer is about 5-8 ohms over the low-pass and the tweeter is 8 ohms. From memory the minimum impedance in the Klipschorn with the AA is ~4.5 ohms near 50Hz. What are you getting for minimum impedance values in the Klipschorn?

Gil- no varnish, just oil and terpentine. Lemon oil is parafin oil, same as smearing Vicks' Vapor Rub on the surface

Al-I follow what you were trying to do with your network, the 3-way constant resistance network and its equations have been around a long time. And, as you clearly know, speakers aren't resistors and constant resistance networks "aren't" constant resistance BUT they can be made to sound good. Your network looks like a textbook example of one "except" for the autoformer. Is the K-55 V with autoformer 32 Ohm ?? This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-07-2002 at 09:39 PM

sounds ok. Over the last couple of weeks I've gone on a shopping spree, ordered a pair of Community M200 Compression drivers, a pair of matching Community horns, a "used" McIntosh MA6500, network caps, chokes, pads to build a "high-end" pair of AA-networks with mods recommended by djk, AND NOW some JBL drivers from the tent sale. (note that I am married)

Boiled linseed oil + terpentine (2:1 vol) is the recipe for "oil finish". Linseed oil is an oil extract from flax seeds. Terpentine is pine tree sap diluted with ethyl-alchohol. I refinish like this- rub out the old finish with rag damped with terpentine OR mineral spirits. The wood will lighten up, dirt and grime are removed. Let it dry. mix two parts boiled linseed oil + 1 part terpentine. warm it up (sit in sun or on radiator) and with a cheap brush, lay it on thick, wait for 20min, then rub out hard, repeat and then go to next side. Leave the enclosure for a week to dry. This message has been edited by John Warren on 03-07-2002 at 08:48 PM

How do you model the autoformer?

any experiences good, bad? please post if you have comments about service, the products that you purchased, shipping issues. TIA, jw

Al-Do you have a graph of measured (not predicted) resultant impedance vs. frequency on a Klipschorn for your network? If so can you post. TIA, jw