artto

IMHO that's exactly what "high-end" audio has become. Edit: That being said, I've had Luxman valve amps in my possession for 40+ years.

The new Luxman gear is NICE! Just stay away from the mid 80's/early 90's stuff when Alpine bought them mainly to acquire the brand name. Not the same performance, or build quality as the 70's and earlier. I still have Luxman MB3045 running original 8045G & 6240G tubes.

Roon is up & running. I must admit the Roon player seems to sound better than the BluOS app/player, or J River. With the BluOS app I’m streaming (Ethernet) directly into the BluOS module in the NAD M32. With J River I use my laptop with HDMI connection to the M32. I originally became interested in Roon because I’ve some posts about using Roon for parametric EQ. This interested me because since I built a sound barrier wall to appease my neighbor from excessive bass, the wall is now reflecting that bass energy back into the room. There are some known room mode issues around 50-60Hz and a similar problem because of the distance between my house and my neighbor. I’ve been working on solving this acoustically. It is a work in progress. Software EQ is the easy way out, at least for now. But here’s the strange part. When using Roon I’m not feeling the need to attenuate bass response. I’ll often use the bass tone control to (usually) cut the bass a few dB on many modern recordings. With Roon I’m not feeling the need to do this. I wonder why? Even when I use Roon to stream from Tidal the low end sounds more in balance. So the irony is, when using Roon I don’t feel the need for any EQ, even though that’s why I wanted to try it in the first place. The other thing, I mention in my ma”Roon”ed post is the sound when playing loud. I mentioned Roon seemed to take a slight “edge” off the sound (in a positive way – sort of McIntosh-like) I thought these players are supposed to be “bit perfect”. But there’s obviously something else going on. Has anyone experienced anything similar, or care to speculate/expand on this?

Mastering the Market Cycle (getting the odds on your side), Howard Marks Rigged, David Shimer

Since I was having some issues, and contacted Roon, they offered to extend the trial period. Since it's taken a week (half of the trial period) just to get this far I'm probably going to force the issue with them and ask for a full 30 day trial. IMHO, a product like this really should have a longer trial period. I mean really, I had to get some extra components, and with current supply chain issues, it could take someone even longer to get Roon set up if they have to order Ethernet cable or switches online.

I'm probably not best qualified to answer this since I too am in the learning curve. But from what I understand so far, the answer to your question is probably YES. But the catch is, the local area network. The LAN now becomes your connections between components (instead of interconnect cables - RCA, XLR, HDMI, etc). In my case the NAD M32 with BluOS module installed allows for Ethernet connection directly into the amplifier. I imagine most current HT receivers have this capability. Most "stereo" amplifiers do not. And yes, Roon will gather everything, all your locally stored music files, internet radio stations, subscription music services such as Tidal or Quboz, and "consolidate" them. For instance, when using Roon, if I'm looking at music under the heading (tab) "albums", Roon shows my favorite albums I tagged on Tidal as well as what's on my PC hard drive, in alphabetical order, and indicates where it's from (ie: Tidal) The other thing I liked was that Roon also showed the file Format (FLAC or WAV, MP3, etc), the bit depth and sample rate, with or without MQA. Sort of let's you know "what you're getting" or what you actually have.

There are entire fields that study interior design and architecture and how it emotionally impacts us. True. Not only that, but also how architecture influences, or literally controls our behavior. I took many of these kinds of courses at Uof I while studying architecture and my personal library is littered with many text books from thereof. All of the greatest listening rooms have these visual design cues that further aid the listening experience... It could be as simple as dimming the lights for an evening listening session, and yet that has no impact on the acoustic waves. This is also very true. It’s also why I spent so much time integrating the visual appearance/ambience of my room, to create illusion that has visual impact on the artificial “soundstage”. Even some of the exhibitors at audio shows have discovered this going to at least some extent trying to create a lighting effect on the speakers/front wall that appears to enhance the depth of the sound field. However, the emotional state it puts us in sets the context for how the music is heard, and in that sense has a hugely dramatic impact to the music listening experience. Is that snake oil too? Only if someone is charging us too much (smile) Thinking about it some more, isn't the entire audiophile hobby built on the same fundamental principal? The seductive voice we hear singing isn't actually in the room, but we sit in the dark imagining that it is. The entire hobby is established on an experience that isn't physically substantiated. The illusion of music exists only in our minds. No, the music is really there, the artists performing it are not there. Actually, I prefer listening with open eyes and lights on. If done right, the lighting can actually enhance the illusion of “presence”. Not sure it works for everyone but I can attest that inexperienced totally non-audiophile types have described it at my place as “it’s like I’m there” or “it’s as if I can see all the musicians”. And that, I think is about as good as it can get at the moment. Hi Mike. Haven't seen you in a while. Everything has changed since you were over. Not done with revisions yet. Hope you're doing well.

It wasn’t my intention, but I wound up using Roon for all my listening last night, mostly recordings ripped from my CD collection on the laptop. My initial impression (without any direct comparison) is that Roon with its Ethernet connection directly into the NAD M32 BluOS module is superior to using J River and an HDMI connection from PC to M32. I’ve preferred HDMI over USB. I have to admit last night was a real eye (ear) opener. Quite enjoyable. I started out playing a few tracks from MA Recordings SACD sampler, MAonSA. Then quite a few tracks from AudiogoN’s Wake Up Your Ears” Chesky Records sampler. Outstanding! Then a MFSL Master release of Cannonball Adderley/Miles Davis “Something Else”. Roon found and made some recommendations (on Tidal) based on what I had been listening to from my local music and I must admit they were spot on. I marked them as favorites for further listening later on. Roon’s metadata collection for my local albums (like the Chesky sampler) was very impressive and presented with excellent graphics/aesthetics. I intended to do the traditional Friday night “rock out” listening session but it obviously didn’t turn out that way. And that’s a good thing because it’s indicative that I was very engaged listening to a lot I haven’t heard in a while, with at least the initial impression that it was coming across better than I remember, and certainly nothing like the initial Roon experience. Of course I still had to “rock out” for a while so finished up with a couple tunes from Tool’s first album “Undertow”. Yeah Baby!!!! One peculiar thing I noticed so far (not verified) using Roon, it *seems” as though I can tolerate a higher SPL with Roon playing the same tracks than I would from PC via HDMI or streaming from Tidal. Not sure what might be causing this. As much as I hate to use this analogy, it was sort of like using a modern McIntosh amplifier. It sort of took a very slight edge off at higher SPL. I haven’t used any Roon DSP yet although that was my main interest in using Roon. With J River I previously used Isotope Ozone mastering software plug-in. I stopped using it after a while because it seemed to overtax my laptop, often slightly degrading overall sound quality (the cure was worse than the disease). I won’t be surprised if Roon does the same thing. If so, I guess it will be time for an Intel i7 NUC.

👍 Soundforge and Acid. Acid for multi-track recording, Soundforge for editing/mastering (shameless plug) You can find some of my recordings here: https://gewchorale.org/shop/recordings These are all "different" in terms of recording technique and I don't remember which ones are best, LOL.

Thanks Bruce. Yes, I know, I have a Focusrite 18i/20 that uses WASAPI and ASIO. So does my (Sony) pro recording/mastering software. Roon recognized the Focusrite. I suspect I'll have to manually enable it in Roon Device Setup just like the M32. My laptop is probably 8 years old (Win 8.1). Maybe that has something to do with it.

Alright. I decided to disable Realtek HD Audio (default for laptop audio). Still didn't work. Then went into Roon Device Setup, had to re-select M32 from Device Setup even though Roon said it was already Enabled. Now I have the bright purple dots and Roon is playing thru the system. Haven't done any serious listening yet. But at least I'm pretty sure it's connected the way it's supposed to be. Thanks to everyone for your help. I'll report later on the sound quality. It's Friday Night. TIME TO ROCK 🎸

Well, I've got it hooked the way it's supposed to be. Roon recognizes the M32 and I enabled it. BUT, playback is only through the laptop's speakers. No other output options are shown in Windows. The Roon Signal Path is still the same, and has green dots, Output is still OS Mixer. This shouldn't be this much trouble, especially when I have no need or intention of sending any of this music anywhere else in the house to other playback devices and I'm the only user.

Thanks for the tip! Good to know.

Hey, It's ME

Thanks Guys! So, if I'm understanding this correctly (another Duh moment), the BluOS MDC module is basically just a Network Interface Card (NIC). The PC and M32 (via BluOS card) are connected together using a good old fashioned pier to pier network like in the old days (just connect 2 computers together with an Ethernet cable). Essentially, the Ethernet cables are replacing what would otherwise be interconnect cables (RCA or XLR) or HDMI, TOSLINK, etc.

OK. Thanks! What I have right now is the Comcast supplied Router. It has four Ethernet ports. One of those ports is wired to (what I call, or used to be called a "Hub") in my office where the Hub is Ethernet to my two office PC, a network printer, and my wife's office PC. One of the other Router ports has Ethernet going to the M32 BluOS Ethernet port. The office PC's & printer via Ethernet are almost never in use (ie: PC are in Sleep mode) while I'm listening music, streaming or otherwise. If I'm understanding this correctly, I need to run a second Ethernet cable from the Router to the laptop PC in the music room. OR, can I use the same (one) Ethernet cable from the Router into the music room and have an Ethernet switch in the music room/equipment racks to feed the data signal to both the laptop and BluOS? In other words is it better to have the switch at the Router end or at the receiving end? Quite honestly, I don't understand why an outboard switch would be any better than just using the ports on the Router. The switch has to be connected to one of the Router ports anyway.

My M32 is loaded. BluOS, Analog/phono, HDMI & SPDIF MDC modules installed. The PC (Roon Core) is connected to M32 via HDMI. For Tidal, the Ethernet cable goes straight into the BluOS module. No, M32 is not listed at the end of the Roon Signal Path. OS Mixer is the last line. There are green dots next to OS Mixer and Signal Path High Quality

For the comparison I used the same files for both Roon and J River. All were ripped from my CD's using J River, 44.1kHZ FLAC. Tidal was not used for comparison. (actually, only the 10cc track is available on Tidal, the others are not).

I see green dots

I really don't like whatever Klipsch has done with the website - seems very problematic lately. I uploaded the screen shot but it's not showing up. It says I'm past my upload limit. I deleted all of the recent uploads. Somehow it thinks the re-sized JPG file is still 8MB after I re-sized it to 1.7MB FWIW, in plain English it says: Signal path: High Quality FLAC Source FLAC 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch This PC Roon Advanced Audio Transport System Output OS Mixer

Maybe "OS Mixer" at System Output is the problem?

Tongue in Cheek 🤩 Installed Roon yesterday…………..I am not a happy camper, with several caveats. First, I’ll admit I probably don’t have things optimized yet. Second, I’m running Roon from a Windows 8.1 laptop which apparently is not the recommended way to achieve the highest performance. However, I also don’t see how adding more components (like Roon Nucleaus or Intel NUC) and/or network bridges, switches and cables are supposed improve sound quality. That being said, here’s what happened. After getting Roon setup on the laptop PC, and Roon app on my Tablet, I listened to a few diverse album tracks. Yo-Yo Ma/Bobby McFerrin, "Grace" from Hush 10cc, “I’m Not in Love” Wynton Marsalis/Eric Clapton, “Play the Blues Live From Lincoln Center” I found something very irritating about the sound quality. I can’t put my finger on it just yet, but the recollection I have of similar experiences might be the very first CD releases, most of which were quite terrible (I have all of the initial releases from Sony CBS). Another analogy might be, it was like going back to using a Crown IC150 preamp, DC300 amp, some large horns in a small untreated reverberant room. The best example of why I thought Roon was not as good as what I’m used to listening to is because, I really didn’t want to continue listening. The first song on the Marsalis/Clapton album, “Ice Cream” is kind of a cute number for an opener. With Roon, I really couldn’t wait for this to be over. Literally. I skipped forward to a couple of other tracks. Still a no go. Same “feeling” with the other tracks mentioned above. I decided to play these same tracks, from the same PC, same HDMI connection to the NAD M32, but using J River as the player. LOW AND BEHOLD. Played “Ice Cream” again. This time I didn’t want to turn it off. I wanted to continue listening, to track after track. I think this is what really tells the story. And I would go so far as to say, that if I were still an analog guy, what I heard from Roon is exactly why I would prefer vinyl and keep saying digital isn’t there yet. All of that being said, I understand were some Roon fans are coming from. The multi-room/multi-user/multi-source playback convenience and whole house integration. I get it. But for me, it’s not what I need, nor want., especially if it can’t provide at least equal sound quality to what I’m currently using. For me, as it currently stands, I’m getting the best sound streaming hi-res from Tidal. Router --> Ethernet --> NAD M32 BluOS. Here the raw data stream goes directly into the amplifier. No other intermediate components/connections/cables required. Next would be using the laptop PC playing my ripped CD FLAC files using J River --> HDMI --> NAD M32. I also tried streaming internet radio using Roon vs Ethernet directly into the M32. Same result. Very un-engaging. I have a support ticket in with NAD/Bluesound. Should be interesting to see what they have to say.

W H A T.....? nO CD player? I just checked around and there's no new cars with cassette or 8-track tape either 🤣 What's the world coming to?

After giving this more thought I was pretty sure this wouldn't work. So far I'm right. Please, someone, prove me wrong. 🙃 I downloaded the Roon app to my tablet. When I try to open the app, Roon starts looking for "Roon Core". From what I can tell, "Roon Core" is either Roon's own "Nucleus" hardware. or something I install on my PC. There doesn't appear to be any way to use Roon directly with BluOS in the NAD M32, as I do with the BluOS app streaming from Tidal. This is an issue. Streaming from Tidal to a PC requires a browser. Using a browser does not allow full hi-res files (24/192) to be streamed. AND, then I'm back to more interconnecting cables & signal path breaks which is why I prefer a true all digital throughput stereo Integrated amp like M32. Looks like I'm back to square one. GRRR From what I can tell, the Roon app is only good for controlling "Roon Core" from my PC (or Roon Nucleus hardware). It's not controlling anything on the M32.