another Which Sub for me Question

[PaulE]

My listening room is 12 X 25 ft. I'm in a hi rise condo, with neighbors above, below, and to each side. I have a Sony STR-DE445 DTS/DD receiver rated at 80 watts / channel. My speakers are a Synergy matched set with SB3 monitors as my fronts. The sub I'm using came with a crappy set of sony speakers I was given, and I want to replace it, without driving the neighbors to throw me out...So far, I've only managed to get one complaint. I hope I'm not pushing my luck by gowing with a better sub, but I cant decide whether the KSW-10 or KSW-12 is the one I should get. I'd get the 10, only I'm afraid the power is too little at 55 wrms. It seems the 12 is the only one I wont wind up outgrowing in a while, especially if I move. Anyway, what are your thougthts about which will work better with my system. Thanks.

[dougdrake]

Paul - (I grew up in Thornwood, just north of you...) I'd go for the 12". You can tame it if you think it overwhelms your Synergy's, but I don't think it will. I've had both 10 and 12" subs (non-Klipsch) and I always felt like something was missing with the 10".

[Quenten]

I would recommend the 12. If it's ever a problem just turn it down!

[Seb]

there are unfortunately better subs for the money

for instance, Paradigm makes the very good PW2200

velodyne is recommended also

look around and don't limit yourself to klipsch.

or wait til the new subwoofers arrive! they will be expensive though.

[PaulE]

I hate to admit it, but, I just purchased a new sub...I would never have considered this mfg for subs, except I've read of nothing but RAVE reviews for it everywhere, including home theater mag. Anyway, its the Sony SA-WM40 12" 120 watt sub, and for $199, its got punch and accuracy equal to that of many > $500 subs...Its not me saying that, but many others...On Audioreview.com, it rates , I think, a 4.8something from a large respondent sample. At a similar price, and similarly equipped is the AR sub, so I was considering both, but, I went with the sony. I was surprised I went that route, but hey, that's what the research showed!

[CO1nf]

Good choice. For the money the Sony is pretty good. You will still have the neighbor problem. I also have the same problem. In the night time I have to turn the sub off and set my mains to large because the SVS really pisses off the neighbors. I still missed being able to feel the bass so I went and bought a set of bass shakers for watching movies at night. It's not the same as my sub but it does add some feel to movies so now I don't mind having to turn off the sub. Don't get me wrong bass shakers are no substitute for a good sub but they are a good compromise for night time movies. As a side note I made a 16Hz test tone for my sub just for fun and I was going to see how much dB it could put out. I never even got the SPL meter on it. When I got up to 1/3 volume the entire apt. started to shake and a neighbor who lives down the hall came to see if I was OK. If you have any problems with your neighbors just tell them, at least they don't live near me.

[PaulE]

What sub do YOU have that rattles the neighbors apts at such low volume? at least in my apt, I havent had to turn off the sub; just down to 1/4 volume or so. To compensate for turning off the sub, you said you set your fronts to Large, so the bass is redirected ... But, I have my fronts set to Large All the time...They are Klipsch SB-3s, and with 8" woofers, I saw no point in setting them to small, and losing the front stage bass. But, are you saying I'd be better off setting them to Small when using the sub? For Movies/TV? Music?

Thanks.

[erdric]

CO1nf mentioned that he had an SVS. I'm guessing that it's a 16-46 based on the fact that he was trying a 16hz test tone. I ordered a SVS 20-39PC that should be built and shipped in about 8 weeks. They are becoming very popular and get rave reviews over at www.hometheaterforum.com. I'm not sure if it would be the best choice for someone that doesn't want to piss off the neighbors.

[janko10]

mmmmmm.....svs.....aragharhaghr.

yeah.

J

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[ToddB]

Another vote for SVS. I have the SVS20-39PC for 750.00 shipped to your door will blow anything away in its price range and above. It will roll klipsch 12 or 15 KSW on its back. I have a very large room opened up to a kitchen and at reference levels I can get 108dbs of clean deep bass. There in a class of there own. They also have a new line coming out called the SS, which is suppose to be 3x as good. Don't skimp on your bass. Save a little more money and get yourself a great sub not a good sub. The paradigm 2200 is also a good sub. The servo is better but at 1500.00 its not as good as the SVS. Several people have a/b 'd the SVS verses the Servo and the SVS won. Just my thoughts, I know not many people of the SVS on this board and get a little fired up underneath the collar when its brought up

[CO1nf]

Been busy lately so I'm slow replying. Erdric is right, I have a SVS 16-46PC and at low levels in the night it still shakes everything. Now I could turn it up and down all the time but that's a pain in the *** because every movie is different. Like I said I turn the sub off and the mains to large so I get some bass from the speakers and I get the feel from the bass shakers. Turning the mains to large or small is another big debate. I have RF-3's for mains which will go lower than SB-3's but IMO I feel that if you have a good sub it should play the bass because that's what it's designed for. I feel your mains are able to do a better job on mids and highs when they are set to small. They will still play down to 80hZ depending on your receiver so you don't loose any sound stage and any bass below this if your sub is placed right should be non-directional. Like I said it's one of those big debates. Maybe it depends on the speakers you have but in my testing my speakers sound clearer when set to small letting the sub do the bass. Which do you think reproduces bass better, your sub or your speakers? If you answered the speakers you either have really good speakers or you need a new sub.

[PaulE]

Well CO1nf, here's the problem...True, the sub produces better bass below a certain level. BUT, I dont think that level is 80 hz as you say....I believe that good speakers produce the better bass down to near the limit of their freq response. With my SB3s, the freq response starts at 52, so I feel that down do about 60 hz, they will produce the better bass. First, down to a certain level, getting the bass in stereo, mainly with music, is advantageous. Second, I dont know at what hz level the bass becomes non directional, but its questionable that at 80 hz, you cant detect difference. I feel that in general, with HT, it may be ok to do as you say, but with music, I'd set the fronts to large.

[CO1nf]

80hZ is the normal crossover on most receivers when you use the LFE on the receiver. I for one would be very surprised if your SB-3's could produce better bass than my SVS sub below 80hZ. With my other speakers and sub I always had them set to large and I did the same thing with these until I got the new sub and listened to the speakers on small and large. I could definitely hear a difference and so could my friends. I never would have thought this because I figured with towers they could handle the bass and they can but when I set them to small they sound more detailed. Maybe it depends on your speakers but all you have to do is listen to them on small and large and what ever sounds better is the answer for you. Like I said this is one of those big debates so if you think your speakers sound better on large then that's the way for you to go. I never would have tried it but the guys at SVS suggested it to me and I think in my case they were right.

[boa12]

sorry if i'm being a stickler (again) , but LFE & <80hz (low bass) aren't interchangeable terms. LFE is carried on a seperate channel to the sub & can actually go up to 120hz if using the thx or whichever standards. the low bass for each respective channel is what is delegated to the sub when that is set to small.

w/ most if not all receivers all lfe (the .1 channel) is sent only to the sub, even if u have say the fronts set to large & say a bass mgmt output setting (if available) on front+sub. so for lfe source material, it probably all goes to your sub anyway, unless u set your sub:no.

if some receivers send lfe to other speakers, which i'm sure you'll hear some do, it wouldn't make sense to do that anyway.

why try & send signals from a specific channel (lfe/.1 bandwidth)) produced for a subwoofer through a whole different channel (like the front L or R)?

as for the low bass, large vs. small can be an endless debate on which sounds best. many factors involved so do what sounds best

[Audio Flynn]

I am very close to trying the Adire Audio Rava sub.

12 inch

60 pounds sealed cabinet

250 watt

Oak veneer

Hard to find reviews and needs to be mail ordered from Washington. I really like the design intent of the sealed box M&K subs for music but hate the idea of the high cost of an ugly black box sub.

$399.00 for the Rava