Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Last night I updated all the compenents in my RF-7 crossovers. I used the parts DeanG lists for his upgrade, other than the kimber caps. For cost reasons I went with the Dayton Precision caps. Maybe this was a mistake. The top end is very harsh now. How long should I wait for these to break in before I try something else? When I removed the glue from one of the 12uf caps some of the encapsulation peeled off expsoing some foil, so I don't think I can go back now. I also seem to have lost a bit of bass response. When I tested the old caps they were all within 1uf of spec. When I tested my new parts they were all more than 1uf out of spec, some almost 2uf. Is this normal? The Dayton caps are supposed to be 1% tolerance. They matched within 1% but the 12uf caps measured closer to 10.5 uf on my multimeter. Should I send them back or get a new meter? I guess I really want to know how important it is for these caps to match the spec. What type of crossover is this and does anyone have a schematic? Any info or suggestions greatly appreciated, Darius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Hang out, share some information and stories and maybe you will bump into someone on this forum one of these days who will have just the right information for you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 Yep, I'll be hangin out here fairly often now. There's a lot of smart and experienced folks on this forum. I see you're in Indy. Do you work for Klipsch? I'm a LaPorte (IN)High graduate myself, now in Las Vegas. I love the rf-7's they are great speakers. I'm just trying to make them the perfect speaker....for me. D Edit: I guess I should have posted this in the Technical forum. I don't want to post it again. Is there a way to move the whole thread? [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Last night I updated all the compenents in my RF-7 crossovers. I used the parts DeanG lists for his upgrade, other than the kimber caps. For cost reasons I went with the Dayton Precision caps. Maybe this was a mistake. The top end is very harsh now. It is very difficult to make a judgement right after and upgrade. I typically do not endorse a break in period, but have realized capacitors seem to soften after being used for a while. The Dayton 1% caps I use exclusively for testing, and have found only minor change...better but minor, switching to Sonicaps and Kimber caps. The Dayton caps can be a bit harsh when new, give the caps and your ears a little time to adjust, and give them another chance. I have never heard one, but the Dean G crossover mod has a positive following. I have found the stock RF-7 to be a bit flat on the top end, and lifeless in the mids. I actually preferred the RF-5 BTW, I love your equipment list. Bottlehead gear is pleasing to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Yep, I'll be hangin out here fairly often now. There's a lot of smart and experienced folks on this forum. I see you're in Indy. Do you work for Klipsch? I'm a LaPorte (IN)High graduate myself, now in Las Vegas. I love the rf-7's they are great speakers. I'm just trying to make them the perfect speaker....for me. D Edit: I guess I should have posted this in the Technical forum. I don't want to post it again. Is there a way to move the whole thread? Amy will be around and could move the post. I'm not employed there.......just happen to live in the same town. Yes, those RF7's are still mighty fine.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 When I tested the old caps they were all within 1uf of spec. When I tested my new parts they were all more than 1uf out of spec, some almost 2uf. Is this normal? A 1% cap that is 15% or more out of spec isn't "normal". Since the original caps measured correctly when you used your meter, we can rule out a problem with the meter (unless the batteries were in the process of going south between the measurements). The only thing I can think of here is the caps were labeled incorrectly (a batch of 10uF caps ended up 12uF labels). After the measurement, you should have sent them back -- they won't take them back now since you soldered on the leads. I guess I really want to know how important it is for these caps to match the spec. Pretty important. I used the parts DeanG lists for his upgrade, other than the kimber caps. If you don't mind, I like to see the list you used. Where did you find it (or did I email it to you). When I removed the glue from one of the 12uf caps some of the encapsulation peeled off expsoing some foil, so I don't think I can go back now. I also seem to have lost a bit of bass response. Right, any old cap you did that to is toast now. I normally warm the board with my heat gun and pop the caps off with a flat head screwdriver. With the adhesive sufficiently warmed, you can usually just rub it off the board with your thumb. I then lightly scuff the area with 220 and clean with denatured alcahol before I lay down the hot melt for the new caps (I also scuff the tape on the bottom of each cap). The loss of bass response sounds due to you somehow further elavating the output of the horn -- you didn't lose bass, you raised the treble. I need to see that parts list -- and you need to double check your work and reorder some parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 This is where I found the parts list:http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/87743/888574.aspx#888574 I'm going to get new batteries for the multimeter tonight. When I measured those parts I really couldn't believe anything was that far off and chalked it up to a fruity meter. I really only have an extremely basic understanding of electronics. I built my amps and pre from the bottlehead kits without any issues whatsover, so I am fairly competent with an iron and able to follow directions. It would definetely help to see a schematic of the RF-7 crossover, so I can pull out my crossover tutorial and get a little better understanding of what exactly is going on. Can I do a capacitance and/or resistance test with the parts installed on the board? Thanks, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 You won't be able to measure the parts while they're in the circuit. Where did you put the 10 ohm resistors that are on the list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 "Where did you put the 10 ohm resistors that are on the list?" I paralleld them with the 2ohm resistors on the HF board. Saw that in another post you had made. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 BTW, I love your equipment list. Bottlehead gear is pleasing to my ears. Mine also! Going with the BH gear is probably one of the best decisions I have made. If you have the time and patience, listening to a piece of equipment you assembled with your own hands can be extremely satisfying. It will impress the crap out of your friends too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Welcome Dmannnnnn! I have the DeanG crossovers and I can give them blazing thumbs up in my RF-7's! I didn't do them myself, I sent them to Dean.You'll get it right!Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 Thanks Phil. Things are looking a little better already. I hooked them up to the parasound to get some serious current flowing through them and left em to play while I was at work today(luckily no neighbors). The bass is back in spades. HF is still a little harsh, but there definetely is more detail coming through. I picked up some plywood and next week I will rework them in a little more professional manner. The PCB's are a little too crowded with those big caps. When I get them disassembled I can verify the values and reorder anything that is not in line. Tonight I might examine them and try to draw up my own schematic. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 It's not a very popular concept around here -- but new caps are kind of cranky and it takes about 20 hours or so for things to settle down. I do wish you would have used the Kimbers. Did you use Mills resistors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Dmannnn, You are being a gentleman so thi sdoes nto apply to you. Al K emailed me a story about a guy who built his networks when he first designed them. The guy decided that he could improve them by making them less expensive and swapped out cheaper caps and inductors. Then he came on teh forum and bashed Al's Universal Type A's over and over without accepting that he ruined them. I have used Dayton caps in JBL L100T's bypassed with AudioCap Thetas. They sounded very good, but they are not as accurate as RF7's or horns. I have been recomending Clarity Caps PX and S series for crossovers. Don't know if these will work in Dean's application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 I did use the Mills MRA12W resistors. Things are really starting to improve and I am probably getting more used to them. There is greater detail from top to bottom. The bass is much more full and musical. I'm hearing new things in the recordings I have used as a baseline for the past two years. More emotion in vocals, breath on the mic, a door opening and closing somewhere in the studio, drum pedals, (in the case of a Lorena McKennit recording, an instrument I didn't even know was there before!). It is amazing how much was not coming through. I'm really not trying to improve on Dean's upgrade. I'm just trying to save myself a little money. Things are real tight right now. I'm sure you know, people are going under left and right here in Vegas. When I can stash away a little extra cash I will order up the Kimbers. I actually did consider the Clarity SA's, but they don't come in 5uf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I do offer my upgrade using the Dayton 1% caps as a budget alternative -- I've had good feedback from the folks I've done that for. I've used them quite a bit in other builds without any complaints. It's a good entry level polypropylene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I have only used the Daytons in one pair of JBL's that are not as revealing as the RF7's. They sounded good in those speakers but I did not want to guess if they will work in Klipsch, especially as sensitive as they are. Do you like the Kimbers over the Audience in this application or are the Kimbers easier to get to work meaning they are smaller and easier to get to fit in the networks? Dmannn, In what part of Las Vegas do you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 I've been living at the north shore of Lake Las Vegas for the past year and a half. There is a short sale in the works so I will probably be homeless in a couple months. It really is a beautiful location, if a little desolate. Most of places around me are empty and the ones that aren't only see the owners for a weekend every couple of months. I don't mind. I can let the dog run around without a leash and play my music as loud as I want.[8] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I've been living at the north shore of Lake Las Vegas for the past year and a half. There is a short sale in the works so I will probably be homeless in a couple months. It really is a beautiful location, if a little desolate. Most of places around me are empty and the ones that aren't only see the owners for a weekend every couple of months. I don't mind. I can let the dog run around without a leash and play my music as loud as I want. Nice area. You will have no problem finding a replacement property. Plenty available right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmannnnn Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 A buyer's market of epic proportions. The last sale I saw in my neighborhood was 42% of the closing price 18 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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