Calibrating rf 83 and rc 64

[Youthman]

If we are talking about the low pass filter on the sub, it should be set at 120 Hz in the AVR's Bass Mgmt and disabled on the subwoofer itself.

Like I said, there is no standard setting. If so, manufacturers would not give you a choice in X-over frequencies. I do not like the X-over set that high for my sub. Way too much midbass for me. But ultimately, you need to do what sounds best to your ears. If we say it is right, but you don't like the way it sounds, what good does that do? Likewise, if we say it's wrong but you think it sounds perfect, forget what we say.

With that said, you could definitely benefit from an external amp. Although Klipsch are extremely efficient, the 83's do dip down low in ohms so it will be pretty demanding on the receiver to drive all of them at the same time. I'm looking at the Emotiva XPA-5 to ad to my setup down the road. Great bang for your buck and will be a solid 200 watts/ch with lots of headroom. With a 30 day money back guarantee and Free Shipping, and $100 off the regular price, $699 is a steal!

[falcon20x]

.... I'm a little surprise by the issues you are having. I used to have a sub 12 and I still think it was the best for the money. It did a decent job with my RF 83 but then again the RF 83 do not need help either....

Imo, he is trying to run 2 RF-83s, 2 RF-63s, and an RC-64 with a mid level AVR that is only rated as THX Select 2, and does not drive speakers effectively (especially 4 towers and that center channel) that have the impedance dips that these large speakers evidently have at some frequencies. {EDIT Note: Then again, if hitting the Dynamic EQ button did the trick....;-)}

Well it seems obvious to me that his problem had nothing to do with the power of the receiver but it was an improper setting.

[falcon20x]

"If we are talking about the low pass filter on the sub, it should be set at 120 Hz in the AVR's Bass Mgmt and disabled on the subwoofer itself. "

I might be having a blonde moment here but it's been awhile since I have had the sub 12. Can you tell me how to disable the low pass filter on the sub 12 itself?

Last time I checked all the sub had was a knob going from 40HZ to 120HZ but no ON or OFF button for the low pass.

Did I miss understand what you are trying to say?

[colterphoto1]

If you are using any reciever or pre/amp with crossover bass management controls, do that setup. Then to disable the crossover on the sub (tell it, in effect - 'play whatever we send to you'), either hit the LFE OFF switch on the sub or rotate it's crossover control fully CLOCKwise. This is what you would do with the SUB12

[falcon20x]

 either hit the LFE OFF switch on the sub or rotate it's crossover control fully CLOCKwise. This is what you would do with the SUB12

That is the point I'm trying to make, there is no LFE off switch on that sub.

As I suggested you should have the low pass knob set to the max.

[roaddog359]

Well it seems obvious to me that his problem had nothing to do with the power of the receiver but it was an improper setting.

Falcon20X You hit the nail on the head!! When I adjusted the x over from Full to 80hz it somehow turned off the dynamic eq that I was used too. So it sounded like it lost some depth in the speakers. When I finnally found that it was off and turned it back on it sounded good again!!!!!! I know my receiver is not the highest end receiver but its their upper middle grade. I just got it 2 months ago because my other one quit working and I was only powering my Bose system them. Well, things have changed fast since then, I got the sub 12 and then I found you guys and learned more and bought the reference line when I was only looking at lower end stuff. When I was looking at receivers I was looking at DENON 2308CI I think thats the model. The CC employee talked me out of it. Said they are not as useer friendly, hard to set up and have a poor on screen menu. Did I make a mistake? Should I have gotten that Denon or do I still need something better.

[Youthman]

That is the point I'm trying to make, there is no LFE off switch on that sub.
As I suggested you should have the low pass knob set to the max.

That I can understand if you are setting your X-over on the receiver to something like 80Hz you would want to turn the sub to 120Hz (or highest setting on the knob). His suggestion was to set it to 120Hz in the AVR which I would disagree with.

[Youthman]

Did I make a mistake? Should I have gotten that Denon or do I still need something better.

Don't do it. It's a vicious cycle that never ends. We call it, "upgraditis". It's deadly. You can always get something better but the question you have to ask yourself is what you have good enough for you? If it sounds good, don't second guess your decision to get the Onkyo. Both are great receivers. I found that my Onkyo wasn't as musical as my previous Harman Kardon but it was a fantastic receiver for HT.

[falcon20x]

Glad I could help.

The Denon receivers are good receivers but ( and this is my personal opinon, some may disagree with me) I found them to be the hardest to set up.

The pioneer was the easiest to set up with the HK ( the manual does suck on the HK though), Yamaha is also fairly simple as well. Once again, I do know anything about Onkyo so I can really say if you made a mistake or not. However, one thing a lot of people seem to be missunderstanding with the RF 83 is they are easier to drive unlike the RF 7. They will get going with a much lower/ entry level receiver but like the RF 7 to reach there full potential you still need good power. It all depends on what you are trying to do, the receiver would only be a mistake if it did not sound good to you.

A lot of people, including myself, end up using the receiver as a decoder and have added an external amplifier. I love the warm sound of my HK, adding the external amp allowed me to take the speakers ot the next level.

[falcon20x]

That is the point I'm trying to make, there is no LFE off switch on that sub.

As I suggested you should have the low pass knob set to the max.

 

That I can understand if you are setting your X-over on the receiver to something like 80Hz you would want to turn the sub to 120Hz (or highest setting on the knob).  His suggestion was to set it to 120Hz in the AVR which I would disagree with.

We are talking about two different issues.

I don't discuss the fact that you would have the X-over limit set or the number you would chose to set it at on the receiver but the fact that his suggestion regarding on how you should have the sub low pass knob set. It can not be done on that particular model, therefore my previous suggestion was the most appropriate.

Regarding the X-cross over setting level, I think the speakers themselves and your hear would guide you to the appropriate setting but I do have mine set at 80 HZ.

[Youthman]

If we are talking about the low pass filter on
the sub, it should be set at 120 Hz in the AVR's Bass Mgmt and disabled
on the subwoofer itself.

Sorry Falcon, I was commenting on the above statement. Your statements were appropriate, I was disagreeing with tkdamerica's statement. He might not have been refering to setting the x-over on the receiver to 120Hz but that's what it appeared to say.

[Zen Traveler]

That is the point I'm trying to make, there is no LFE off switch on that sub. As I suggested you should have the low pass knob set to the max.

That I can understand if you are setting your X-over on the receiver to something like 80Hz you would want to turn the sub to 120Hz (or highest setting on the knob). His suggestion was to set it to 120Hz in the AVR which I would disagree with.

You may disagree, but if you have it set at 80 Hz you are missing the information that is sent to the LFE channel between 80 and 120 Hz. Granted there isn't much, but I wouldn't want to lose it.

[Zen Traveler]

Sorry Falcon, I was commenting on the above statement. Your statements were appropriate, I was disagreeing with tkdamerica's statement. He might not have been refering to setting the x-over on the receiver to 120Hz but that's what it appeared to say.

Fwiw, I am talking about the Lowpass Filter and it should always be set to 120 Hz. Here is what the CTO at Audyssey had to say on the subject:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15361299&highlight=120+hz#post15361299

"The 80 Hz for the sub is not a crossover. There is still massive confusion about the "sub crossover". We need to start a campaign to let people know that there is no such thing! A crossover, by definition, requires TWO speakers. One for the higher frequencies and one for the lower ones.

What you are seeing is the lowpass filter applied only to the LFE track. It MUST be set to 120 Hz in the AVR and never be changed. In fact, it should not even be an option for the user to change it."

[Zen Traveler]

... I know my receiver is not the highest end receiver but its their upper middle grade. I just got it 2 months ago because my other one quit working and I was only powering my Bose system them. Well, things have changed fast since then, I got the sub 12 and then I found you guys and learned more and bought the reference line when I was only looking at lower end stuff. When I was looking at receivers I was looking at DENON 2308CI I think thats the model. The CC employee talked me out of it. Said they are not as useer friendly, hard to set up and have a poor on screen menu. Did I make a mistake? Should I have gotten that Denon or do I still need something better.

I am glad you got it up and running to satisfaction. :-)

I am a fan of the Denon AVRs, but feel that your Onkyo is comparable, and neither one would I drive 4 towers in a flat out fashion. I run a similar setup (listed below) and when I had to downgrade my AVR for a time, I also had to switch out my Side Surround Towers because it did not sound as good, and in fact sounded muffled. It's not about WPC as much as it is being able to get enough current to drive your speakers efficiently. If someone is posting that the RF-83s don't have the impedance dips that the RF-7 has and can be driven with lower end AVRs then they are reporting something that I haven't heard from Klipsch and will amend my recommendations after I am convinced of that fact....The bottom line is if you are happy and your amp isn't clipping then don't change a thing. [Y]

That being said, if your Onkyo has pre-outs, I would consider one of those Emotiva amps and that should give you the proper power supply to drive your Awesome Klipsch Home Theater package! My last 2 cents. ;-)

[Zen Traveler]

EDITED: I forgot that I had already posted my last comment above. []

[roaddog359]

Ok guys I have another question for you. I have read on here about the Emotiva xpa-5. Do you guys think I would benifit from getting one? I want to have a 7.1 set up so do I need one that supports 7 channels. Or is the 5 channel good enough? Which speakers do I but on it? Fronts, Center and my rear rf 63's and just let the onkyo power the rs 62's? How does an amp hook up to the receiver? I believe I have a jack on receiver to add an amp. Let me know what you think. Is the wattage enough to power everything I have? My receiver is rated at 100watts rms per channel I think!

[falcon20x]

You pretty much answered your own questions.

The XPA-5 is a good choice and it will do the job but if you can afford it I would get the XPA-2 for the main front and get the XPA 5 for the rest of the system.

All you need to do is to hook up the preamp out to the amplifiers. As stated before with this type of speakers, there is just so much your receiver can do before it falls short, just let the big boys do the job, that why they are there for.

[etc6849]

I own an Onkyo 905, RF-83's (front) and RC-64's. I haven't had a problem with driving my current set up, and recently added a pair of RF-82's (as rears) with no loss in sound quality (actually this was a big improvement compared to my old rear speakers). The 905 was onkyo's flagship model a year or so ago, and it seems to be very well built weighing 54 pounds!

The sound is very good and I don't hear any distortion at any volume level. However, when I used the Audyssey autosetup, I noticed a huge loss in higher frequency sounds that was very noticeable. I have since disabled the Audyssey Auto EQ settings and turned the EQ off. I also set all my speakers to full range. I left the low pass filter setting to 80Hz, but I'm going to change it to 120hz. My understanding is that this LFE LPF setting only affects the subwoofer output and I'm still sending the full single to my speakers right? Also, I am interested in hearing if I would notice an improvement if I buy external amps.

The onkyo 905 says it's rated for:

Amplifier Section
Power Output	-
Front L/R	140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 170 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 180 W + 180 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Center	140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 170 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 180 W + 180 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Surround L/R	140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 170 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 180 W + 180 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)en, FTC) 170 W + 170 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Surround Back L/R	140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 170 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 180 W + 180 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Dynamic Power	400 W (3 ohms, 1 ch) 300 W (4 ohms, 1 ch) 180 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion)	0.05% (Rated power)
Damping Factor	60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 ohms)
Input Sensitivity and Impedance	200 mV/47 k-ohms (Line) 2.5 mV/47 k-ohms (Phono MM)
Output Level and Impedance	200 mV/470 ohms (Rec out)
Phono Overload	70 mV (MM, 1 kHz, 0.5%)
Frequency Response	5 Hz–100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode)
Tone Control	±10 dB, 20 Hz (Bass) ±10 dB, 20 kHz (Treble)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio	110 dB (Line, IHF-A)
Speaker Impedance	4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms–16 ohms

I also really like the suggestion of setting the subs low pass setting to the highest possible frequency. I'm going to try this tonight and set the LFE LPF setting to 120Hz. Also, I have double bass turned off. Should I turn this on?