bhendrix Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 At Mr. Colter's recommendation, I discovered a great new combo for LaScala's; a little bass booster. Place the LaScala on top of a KP-4000 woofer and, BINGO, more bass plus the LaScala is now at ear level while standing. Sensitivity for KP-4000 = 104db = LaScala sensitivity. SWEET!! Dividing network in woofer crosses at 150Hz (I think). Is this correct, Roy? Rolled these babies outside and enjoyed the tunes. Amazing . . . .Y'all gotta git somma these . . . . Hey, Michael, have you tried this?? Thanks for the tip!! Can't help but wonder if Roy didn't design this on purpose . . . . .[][8-|] Sorry for poor pic quality. Taken with iphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 "Can't help but wonder if Roy didn't design this on purpose . " KP-480 was designed for the LaScala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Yup. KP-480 and KP-4000 are the same thing. K49 18" woofer with K17 15" passive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Yup. KP-480 and KP-4000 are the same thing. K49 18" woofer with K17 15" passive. good to know. I have a set of KP-480's. Sounds well at low power levels, but due to the use of a small iron core 6mh inductor and 200uf's of electrolitic caps leaves you wondering what happened at higher power levels. I think these things are 6db per octave at 120hz. You LaScala's if connected to the HF out connector is running in line with 2 100uf electrolytic capacitors --- yuck. Definte canidate for high gauge inductors and film capacitor upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Definte canidate for high gauge inductors and film capacitor upgrades. Interesting. I'll have to open these 4000's and see what's inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 NIIIICCCE, got that horn right where it'll cut their heads clean off!! And it looks KILLER TOO! Look at you go with your bad casters and wheelie carts- woohoo! Now lets line em all up and take a group photo, mmmk? Bill, how do you like the sound compared to your 3002's on top of the 480's? Can you A/B the stacks side by side on the next nice afternoon you get? OO, and A/B the KI 362 v KP3002 while you're at it (before the 362's get flown). I believe that Mr. Roy told me at one point that the KP480 was designed to supplement the LS bass. Funny that the dimensions are exact, innit? I hadn't checked the sensitivity of the two, interesting that they work out the same, therefore the pass through LP/HP filter doens't have much of a balancing act to perform, eh? If you want to get the ridged corner pieces so the LSI interlocks with the KP480, Parts Express sells the exact same corners with the horizontal ribs (not diagonal like some speakers use today) I would hope that the crossover would be a bit lower, but consider that the KP480 was frequently used as 'speaker on a stick' with KP250 (Heavy duty industrial Heresy), then 150- would be right for that combination. EDIT my literature shows KP480 having 150 Hz pass-through network.12 db LP for the sub, a gentle 6 db HP for whatever full range speaker is connected to the throughputs. I think the KP115BX had a 150 Hz network also. Dang, if I could get a pair of those I could sell one set of these LSI's and pocket some change. Right now I'm still double stacked, but with the KP301's and 682/362 stacks it's getting a bit superfulous. aaaaaaaaaaaaa, I think I"m going to have an anyurism LOL [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 dem 4000's got rat fur? that's usually the case with WWR 4-digit number per Miss Amy (Reeder, pro parts gal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 " Definte canidate for high gauge inductors and film capacitor upgrades." ...or bi-amp the setup if you can, in which case I'd be tempted to use about 80-100 Hz for the crossover point. The more upper bass you can filter from the KP480, the less 'tubby' it should be. Rane AC22 can be had very inexpensively. This would also offer some level of protection for the LSI components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Look at you go with your bad casters Hi Michael, Got the caster boards under the KP-4000C from Full Compass. Made by Road Ready Cases with nice locking casters. $75 each. Makes 'em real easy to move. Work great under LaScalas too. 4000C's are covered with rat fur. http://store.roadreadycases.com/dyn_prod.php?p=RRWADS&k=145106 how do you like the sound compared to your 3002's on top of the 480's? Going to do a comparison on Saturday. LS vs. KP-3002 vs. Ki-362. That will be fun. Dang, if I could get a pair of those I could sell one set of these LSI's and pocket some change. I know where there's another pair of KP-4000 with brand new woofers. Wanna swap for the LSI's? [] I'm feelin' another road trip to Columbia. This time let's at least eat together . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yikes, those racks are $95 now. I have been building my own from 3" wheels from PE for about $30 per set (two locking types), but then my time's not worth anything these days. I'll have these spare 18's here when I rebuild the KP600 system, and might build up some 484? bins (single 18 ported). If I could fashion those to fit under a LSI I'd be set. No rat fur for me please, the cats would make a mess of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thackmate Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I just stumbled onto this thread and thought I'd give y'all my 10 cents worth. The KP480 initially came about as a way to fulfill a market need for a compact subwoofer. It needed to have grunt and earth shaking low end but how to do such in a small box? It was not intended to be an XLF for the laScallywag but that certainly came into play as designs were being considered. The passive radiator certainly worked and although there were some early problems with reliability in the field many were sold and still enjoyed. If you have two of them try laying them sideways so that the drone cones (bottom) couple together. A lot of night clubs do this in the B version. Many a KP480-AX product was sold with a post and a KP250A sitting on top and latterly many were sold as KP4000X and KP2502. If you bi amp a KP480 with the LSI you will find that 70 cycles is a good crossover point (I noticed that someone was mentioning 80-100 in this thread) Thack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Sound Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The KP-480 (4000 in carpeted version) was definitely designed to augment the LSI and KP450/456. It was no accident. They are all the same sensitivity. As seen in the previous picture it is an exact width match for the LSI. Turn it on it's side and it's an exact match for the KP450/456. I used a couple of 480s with 456s on top for side fill monitors for awhile. The simplicity of the AX (internal network) and sensitivity match made a killer passive system. My only complaint was that the crossover point was at 120 Hz. It should have been more like 80 or so taking just the bottom octave off the LSI or 450. I played with a few active crossovers on the set up but eventually sold my 480s with a pair of 450s to a small night club for a house PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thackmate Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Bob mate ....... I didn't say it was an accident. I was merely commenting on a previous statement that said it was designed for the LSI and ..... you are absolutely right the 450 system was in consideration. When it came time to take to market and have a road ready version (suffix A) for where most would be sold then other products like the KP250 came into consideration and with that the passive network (suffix X). The end result was that most were sold with network and used with the 250 on a pole and that is why I commented on them. BTW have you spoken with Bruce lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Sound Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Thack, actually my comment was on the earlier post saying how interesting it was the LSIs fit so neatly on top. It definitely was an all purpose 18" follow up to the "stubby sub" (115). It would have been better if there had been two AX versions, one for the 250s and a lower HPF for the LSI and 450s. A switch on the x-over would have been cool. I do need to catch up with Bruce. He and Lea used to come down this way every year for his family reunion in Navarre. They would take off, leave the kids with grandparents and Bruce, Lea, Pam and I would spend the day boating and visiting. I'm way overdue for getting in touch. Today, I just found a ton of pictures including some taken in Hope testing MCMs out by the old lab, a picture of a LB-BG, and pics of the prototype wood 600 system taken in Tuscaloosa. Some funny pics of Gary Gillum, Curtis, and Paul. There also are a lot of large show/festival pics using the MCMs and 600s. I plan to get them organized eventually. When I can figure out how to post some here I will if that's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ok, ok 70 it is. But certainly not 150 or 120. At least I was in the right direction. At 150 hz that and the 115 sound absolutely flatulent. Nice to see you new (old) guys getting along so well! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 " Definte canidate for high gauge inductors and film capacitor upgrades." ...or bi-amp the setup if you can, in which case I'd be tempted to use about 80-100 Hz for the crossover point. The more upper bass you can filter from the KP480, the less 'tubby' it should be. Rane AC22 can be had very inexpensively. This would also offer some level of protection for the LSI components. I can attest to the 150 Hz. High Pass filtering for the LS because I did mine like that for over 6 months with 2 MWMs bottoms per stereo channel. It's more important to tame the 150 Hz. peak in a LaScala bottom than it is to do what you suggest here IMHO. However, all of it is an improvement, so salt to taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thackmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Colter, Bob @ Ram and I probably are the resident "old" guys [] and we get along fine. Now a comment about the X/over point - In the early days we knew what the 480X network sounded like under LSI's and it was wrong but we figured that anyone who added a 480 to an LSI or 450 rig then they would want to use an active filter and exra amps. A switchable unit with 2 or 3 points would have cost so much more and price the product out of the market. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 excellent point, so the150 xover was mostly for 'speaker on a stick' applications with KP250 or KP320 then? Agree to the active networks for larger more powerful systems. Building a network capable of handling enormous power would also be prohibitively expensive. Well thought out gents! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thackmate Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 yes M. Passive networks in the stubby sub 115 and the 480 were designed principally with the "speaker on a stick" mobile PA operation in mind. (Be that the 201, 250, 320, 301 et al small system products.) That being said I have heard of "permanent" installations done by some that utilized these networks and, they served the purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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