eq_shadimar Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Dual SVS 20-39CS+ Review Arrival: I receive the UPS shipping notice and check the UPS tracking system. Delivery scheduled for Tuesday the 12th. Cool!!! Arrange to take the 12th off (I tell everyone I am getting new woofers and get many strange looks). Wake up Tuesday and start getting the equipment rack ready and run the speaker wires. 9:30AM where is the damm truck?! Get some coffee, play with dog, watch some news, get some more coffee. 10:30AM where is that damm truck?! Get some coffee, jump online, do what I can on our "work from home" system, get some more coffee, play with dog. 11:30AM where is that damm truck?! Get some coffee, play with dog, watch a movie, get a soda. 1:30PM where is that damm truck?! Get a soda, get online, check UPS status, still delivery pending. 1:45PM where is that damm truck?! Go outside, pace around, get a soda. 2:00PM where is that damm truck?! Start thinking that I have had too much caffeine. 2:10PM where is that damm truck?! Start getting paranoid "Ron and Tom are playing a cruel trick on me", "UPS hates me", "the Police have arrested the dirver for stealing SVS woofers" well you get the idea. I was in pretty rough shape. Trying to calm down I put in another movie. Can't stop thinking about how much better the movie would be with more bass. 4:30PM where is that damm truck?! Get a soda, peer out windows unaware of time, hear dog barking, slowly come out of coma, realize the doorbell is ringing, open front door, greet UPS man shaking with excitement, wipe drool from face because he is looking very scared, barely hear the UPS guy "say here take this (Samson) I have two other items on the truck", manage to croak out "ok". Get everything inside, the sun comes out, music plays, the choir sings. Time is 5:30PM. I unpack everything noting how well all the items are packed and remembering not to throw away the port plugs. I try to hook everything up, crap need some adapters, get keys, head to Radio Shack, ignore salesman asking if I need help, spend precious time trying to find adapter, salesman seeing my crazed look asks again, I tell him what I need, he points to the rack right in front of me and asks "is this what you need", I grumble "yes" (ok I think there is a lesson in there somewhere but I was too crazed to care...must get bass), stop and get some food, arrive home. Time is 7:30PM where is that damm...remember that I already have the woofers. Hook up inputs, hook up speaker wires, turn on amps, quickly turn off amps due to large hum coming from woofers, curse, tear up house looking for cheater plug, don't find cheater plug, curse, get keys, go to Home Depot, get cheater plug (I know my way around Home Depot ), drive home. Time is 8:30PM. Insert cheater plugs, turn on amps, here silence, wonder why it is sunny at 8:30 at night, wonder where the music and singing is coming from. Start calibration (read below), curse, reverse wires, take measurement, yell "yippe". Time is 9:50PM. Insert Star Wars EP1, live in bliss for 10 minutes, remember what a nice neighbor I am, turn off system, go to bedroom, crash with a big smile on my face. Time is 10:10PM. The Woofers and Powerplants: Single 20-39CS/Hafler P505 and Dual 20-39CS+/Samson S1000 The Room Setup: The room where all my equipment is setup has been described as difficult by Tom V It is open to the kitchen and several hallways. It also has a tall sloped ceiling. I have a diagram of it on my web page if anyone wants to see it. I live in a ranch style house built on a solid concrete slab. The floor covering is just carpet padding and carpet on top of the concrete. Again there are pictures of the room on my web site if anyone is curious. All three SVS woofers are in the same corner. The new subs are not shown in the pictures because I have not had time to update the web page yet. Bass Equipment Hookup: The LFE/Subwoofer output of my Harman Kardon AVR510 is split 4 ways. It drives the 2 25W Aura Bass Shakers, the Hafler P505 amplifier, and the Samson S1000 amplifier. Calibration: All my speakers are set to small with the crossover occuring at 80Hz. The subs were calibrated using the VE subwoofer test section and the Radio Shack analog meter. My previous settings with the single 20-39CS were 76dB with a setting of 3dB on the AVR510 and the gain wide open on the Hafler. Since I am using 2 amplifiers to drive the 3 woofers I had to sit down and think for a bit. I figured that the dual 20-39CS+ combination would put out more bass then the single 20-39CS (duh) so I decided to calibrate the dual woofers first. My reasoning was that if I could get the setting on the AVR510 close to where it was for the 20-39CS with the dual woofer combination I would not have to worry about over driving the single 20-39CS. I opened up the gain all the way on the Samson and started the procedure using the VE test tone. I ended up calibrating the dual woofer package to 78dB on the RS meter. At this level the AVR510 setting was at 8dB!! I got 2dB more output while reducing the AVR510 setting by 5dB!! I then turned on the 20-39CS/Hafler combination with the dual woofer on. The overall dB on the RS meter went DOWN..ACK!!! Well shucks I was bummed. I spent some time troubleshooting and I finally reversed the phase on the 20-39CS by switching the plus and minus speaker wires at the Hafler. Tested again and BINGO adding the 20-39CS now added +3dB on the RS meter (remember that it is not being driven to reference levels due to the reduced setting on the AVR510). So my final settings using the VE test tone using all three woofers are 8dB on the AVR510 and 81dB on the RS meter. Listening: What can I say but WOW! I had some friends over and everyone was very impressed to say the least (I think I have made some converts). Buying the first SVS took me to one level of bass (you all know that story by now) but adding the dual CS+ woofers put me in heaven. I cannot believe the sound that is coming out of these suckers. Those of you who have these beasts in smaller sealed rooms must just be drunk with bass. We watched Star Wars: EP1. The THX intro was amazing, the pod race was amazing, everything was amazing. We watched the intro on Toy Story II. Pant legs were moving and all sorts of things were rattling (time to get some blue tack). Suffice to say everything we watched was spectacular. Another indication on how great these woofers are comes from my dog. Now my dog Java is very used to high sound levels by now and nothing bothers her. Normally she will curl up and sleep during movies. However, during these demos whenever there was a big explosion or a bunch of bass effects she would leap up on all four legs and start looking around to see why the world was ending That is some powerful bass!! Conclusion: Awesome!! I am going to play around with port plugging next. I am very happy right now but the thing is that I have a spare channel on my Hafler just sitting there unused. I think that I need to get another 20-39CS to keep it company Can you ever have enough bass? Nah Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page This message has been edited by eq_shadimar on 02-14-2002 at 05:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Eq... a breathtaking example of classic Klipsch with an ample bottom. May you have many happy hours and pride in the sound you have chosen to create... until the next tweak attack comes. Congratulations on a well done post... Oh, yeah, I think the same UPS man came to my house... that TV has some sense of humor. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMIN Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Terrific post, Damn funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 HEY!!! Thats like my JBL ordeal: Order the 4648A-8 dual 15" subwoofer form JBL's web site. Wait a week for it to arrive. Guy came on Friday, no speaker in truck, crap! Guy comes next business day, Monday, delivers speaker on a pallet, WOW! Hook up subwoofer to amp, play bass, horrible vibration inside of one of the woofers, crap! Get screwdriver to remove driver, screws WON'T BUDGE A FUC^ING TURN! Get 1/2" impact wrench from garage, next two hours, I strip, crack, and finally drill out 16, 2" long screws, OUCH! End up buying $20 in new and replacement tools, crap! Goto ship woofer back to JBL, $40 for shipping, crap! ONLY five business days later, I get the woofer back from JBL, reconed and ready to rip. Hook it back up, and WHAM, pure, bass bliss. Well, your not alone when things go wrong. Even thought I wound up spending $60 to get JBL's broken woofer fixed (I say it that way because they sold it to me broken) they did take good care of me. Well, thats why I am scared to buy gear off of eBay, I am cursed and if I get somthing thats not new, it will probably break, only audio gear! Althought it was a pain to fix, it will work fine for the rest of my life and even at that, I still have five more years of warranty left! Oh what fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 "I am very happy right now but the thing is that I have a spare channel on my Hafler just sitting there unused. I think that I need to get another 20-39CS to keep it company Can you ever have enough bass? Nah " I agree I have four subs in one tiny room and three large subs in a mid sized room...and will add more! Go for the extra SVS CS sub,the poor unused amp channel needs a load to drive. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montigue Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 very nice review Eq, although there is a lesson here... Never drink coffee if you have anxioties!!!! enjoy, Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hey kenratboy, Do you have a link for the 4648A-8 dual 15" subwoofer form JBL? Thanks! ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connects DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Here you go edster00, http://www.jblpro.com/pages/cinema/lfsub.htm The only reason I got this sub is that JBL WAS (read was a few times to rub in the pain) selling them for $220.21 (yes, $220.21 instead of $1000) to get rid of some. They were bran- new with full 5-year warranty. Anyway, thats the link to what I have, so check it out. It says the bass only goes down to 45Hz at +/- 3 Db, but in a room, it goes down into the 20Hz's with great power and ease. If you want to see the true subs, look at any of the 18", they will go into the teens in a residence (aka, you house) I love the sub, every time I go past it, I smile, and it's been a month, so I guess that means I really like it. It produces sub sonic bass without the woofers moving (they "twitch", and they are able to move a full 1.6, 2 on the 18 woofers!) and by the time you pour a few dozen watts into them, they will turn your bowels to mud and your knees to jelly, for real!!! Hey, there is no real wood veneer on the JBL, but it's build in as good as anything (there is about 15 feet of 2X4 bracing inside of the 1" MDF cabinet!) and the woofers are the epitome of audio engineering, so buy one and leave the kid stuff for the "mass market Oh, I know I will be attacked for saying whats in that last line, so I DO NOT MEAN THAT! The only consumer sub I would trade it for would be a multi-thousand dollar sub like the 18 Velodyne or the equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 They have the 4638 on sale right now for $216, check it out here . What about this sub? You can not beat the price. They have a little over 300 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 Yes, the 4638's are still on sale, but they DO NOT update the quanity. When I bought my 4648A-8, it said there were 250+ in stock, they sold out 24 hours after I placed my order, so if you guys want to order DO IT RIGHT NOW, NOT TOMARROW!!! Although I do not want to sound like a little , the drivers are not as good on the 4638's, but they will beat the tar out of 99% of whats available out there, so I wouldn't hesitate to order. Remember, THE SHIPPING IS INCLUDED IN THE POSTED PRICE TO ANYWHERE IN THE LOWER 48. If you had to pay for shipping, it would be over $100, so JBL is losing a hell of a lot of money off of the speakers. I was told by JBL Pro that the cinema market is dead and they want to move the invetory, so there is no catch. Also, the cabinet is 100% passive, there is no crossover or ANYTHING, it's a 4 ohm load, so make sure you have a decent amp. I hope someone orders so they can report back to us! Again, this is, without doubt, the best deal in audio right now, if you can find a better, legidiment deal, let me know! As far as preformance, I would have to say that the 4638 is probably pretty close to my 4648A-8. My sub is meant to be abused 18 hours a day for 10 or 20 years, the driver is so, so tough, and the price ($350 each!) is proof. My woofers have the all-mighty 4" voice coil, while the 4638 has 3", but unless your putting a thousand watts into it, so what! The 4638's drivers are probably lighter duty, but none of you listen to music or movies at 130dB all day (I hope!), so it will not matter. ORDER NOW! Oh, goto the TENT SALE link on jblpro.com home page, its at the top center of the screen. This message has been edited by kenratboy on 02-18-2002 at 11:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted February 21, 2002 Author Share Posted February 21, 2002 Thanks for all of the kind words (I even got an atta boy from HornEd woohoo). I have been playing around with the woofers some more and still cannot get over how good they sound. If I had the height in the corner where they are located I would stack them like HornEd has done. That is too neat. Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures soon. I need to re-calibrate since they have broken in some and I have added some additional cabinets to the room. Sigh it never ends. At least I can listen to some great tunes Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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