khorn58 Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Anyone use Threshold class A amps with klipschorns or Cornwalls. The Music box(one of the orig klipsch dealers and noted as the first hifi store, now closed) in Wellesley Mass sold threshold amps to go with khorns and Cornwall ect. I was thinking of finding one on ebay they say they sound tube like but with killer bass. I have a threshold pre amp I bought new in the 80,s at the Music Box. It sounds nice and has never let me down.It has been left one for 15 years with out a problem as i was told to never turn it off. Right know I am using a phase linear 700(orig one) to power Cornwalls and a Carvar t500 to power khorns both from threshold preamp. I would love to hear it with some better poweramps like threshold or a tube amp. This message has been edited by khorn58 on 02-23-2002 at 01:54 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Every time the name Carver appears, I just have to take a poke. There are a few amps that I feel are not a good match for the super-efficient models of Klipsch. Carver is one. What he has done with class D amplifiers and small powered sub-woofers is remarkable, but his amps are not a good match to horns. Klipsch horns are super-efficient (95 dB/w/m or more). At one point, I lived with a blue-gray solid state Carver (M1.5t?) amp capable of 750-watt peaks per channel. It was capable of sustaining 350 watts RMS into an 8 ohm load with no more than 0.5% total harmonic distortion from 20 to 20,000 Hz. It pushed 600 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms for musically significant time periods. As for the power supply. The M1.5t is regulated to charge the output stages for a maximum total drive of 1200 watts when the program material calls for it. They drove by big old horns like a diesel engine on a go-cart. Lots of raw power. Every once in awhile, we would tempt fate and turn up the volume in my small 100 year old New England home. The live cannon shots on Telarcs 1812 Overture smacked the floor, tickled the toes, raised dust, rattled windows, impressed teenagers and created a tsunami sound wave big enough to flatten Tokyo. You could feel it all right. Even with out a sub woofer, my Cornwalls had no problems with this unusual musical piece. The combination of the two components however did not make music. At the low power levels that horns require, the Carver still had copious amounts of THD. Carver's amps are NOT a good sounding or practical spending match with sensitive horns. Nobody else is running around saying that class D or H amps are smooth enough to drive the mid-range of sensitive speakers. The advent of the class was birthplace of powered sub-woofers. The noisy THD of the amp wore out my ears at normal listening levels and eventually, over a period of time listening, it lost its pleasure and "stereos" fell to the bottom of my hobby list. Pass Laboratories Supersymmetry Balanced Single-Ended Class-A X250 Stereo Amplifier (02/02) http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0202/passx250.htm Coupling a giant amp with big old horns like my 1982 Klipsch Cornwall models doesn't make much sense. Rated at an ultra-efficient 100 dB/w/m, the compression drivers with metal horns barely need the power the X250 puts out when idling. The amp also costs several times the price of the big old horns. In fact, it even weighs as much as one of the speakers (maybe this is the way it should be?). So putting them together is the very definition of amplifier over-kill. It is like dropping a heavy Vette engine into a VW Beetle. It doesn't make much sense, except as an novel experiment, but boy, it sure can go! And go it did. ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Phare Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 The guy that really got me interested in Klipsch many years ago had Threshold and KHorns. The system was stunning. Never have I heard such a sound stage and such detail. He spent alot of time and money on room acoustics also. It is still the "reference" system of all of our friends. He has a Belle for a center channel and Forte's for surrounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 I'm really happy with my Bryston 3B-ST and I bought it on AudiogoN for $1000. My RF7's like it too ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickey Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I'll probably get knocked upside the head for saying this, and with all due respect to my learned namesake (whose posts I thoroughly enjoy reading), not all Carver amps sound bad! Granted, the old Magnetic Field Amps that Colin references like the M1.0t and M1.5 were big old brutes that could never be considered truly musical. But Carver evolved with the times, and right before ole Bob himself left, they produced some nice gear. Carver began to get away from Magnetic Field transformers (notorious for hum, especially when paired with highly sensitive speakers) and other crazy gimmicks, and as a result produced some quality sounding solid state amps. I have Carver TFM 35x's paired with Chorus II's and a KLF-C7 front. Granted, I'll never use a fraction of the 250 WPC these amps are rated at. These particular amps have a conventional design (they're not class D), and even eschewed Carver's Transfer Function Modified circuitry (despite the TFM designation) and as a result sound very musical. They're quiet as a church mouse (no mean feat when paired with speakers rated at 101 dB sensitivity). And as for the sound...well, it's warm, and shudder to say...almost tube-like!! If you don't believe me, ask the guys at Stereophile, who commented on its tube-like sound and put it on their recommended components list circa 1996. It's this tube-like sound quality that attracted me to this particular amp, as opposed to the raw power output. One day, I'm sure I'll graduate into the league of tubes ala Colin, Mobile and Mdeneen, but for now, my schedule doesn't permit me to dedicate the time required for the care and feeding of tube amps. One day for sure! Net-net and IMHO, good sound can be had from Carvers, even when matched with our favorite horn-loaded speakers. Consider it pseudo tube sound on a budget. Colin (aka Chickey) ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I have used several Carver amps(all the large two channel units)and purchased a TFM-75 second hand.I agree Carver's Magnetic Field amps were and are not good choices with horn speakers.Simple,horns will make the slight buzz from the amps LOUD and disturbing. I tried the TFM-75 with my RF-7's and BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ A bee hive was in stereo right before me! The TFM-75 will be used with SVS subs I plan to buy,for RF-7's almost any Class A/B amp is a better choice,even recievers! The best choice for the RF-7's is Celeste,their amps are quiet and musical.No buzz on hornloaded speakers,just music.I used the Celeste 4070,4150 and 4250 with the RF-7's and all give superb results. I also tried the Krell FPB600 with the RF-7's,LOL it was pure overkill.A Celeste 4070 or the MOON W3 is a almost no brainer with the RF-5's or RF-7's. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 BTW Sunfire power amps dont suffer from the BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ older Carver amps had(Magnetic Field).The Sunfire amps are quiet and refined,no more diesel as Colin said. I may consider the Sunfire 5 x 405 watt power amp(405 Watts RMS all channels driven full bandwith please)Into 4 Ohms the output goes to 800W! And the amp weighs only 50lbs! Incredible,Bob Carver knows how to design quality amps for real peeps like me. So not all Carvers amps are created equal,remember the Carver Lightstar?The first Sunfire in my book TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickey Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Yep, the Carver Lightstar was truly the first Sunfire. The Carver TFM 35x I referenced above was modeled after the Lightstar (and sounds remarkably similar), but offered at a price point that the common man like myself could afford. C ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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