HELP! need suggestions on a good amp for rf-63's

[-BC-]

A solid 200/watt a channel amp (separate amp) will blow your socks clean off. I had a high current amp that was 360 watts (8 ohms) on the weak channel, I had a lot of fun with that one. I'm using a 25 watt tube amp now, so power isn't everything but if you like to play loud or want a big punch, a big amp is the way to go!

Thanx, Russ

P.S. Like the boys are saying, a good used amp is the way to go, unless you have money to burn.

thak you for your input. all imput is appreciated. i think ill give the xpa 3 or 5 a shot. they both sound like a pretty good deal...

[-BC-]

A solid 200/watt a channel amp (separate amp) will blow your socks clean off. I had a high current amp that was 360 watts (8 ohms) on the weak channel, I had a lot of fun with that one. I'm using a 25 watt tube amp now, so power isn't everything but if you like to play loud or want a big punch, a big amp is the way to go!

Thanx, Russ

P.S. Like the boys are saying, a good used amp is the way to go, unless you have money to burn.

thak you for your input. all input is appreciated. i think ill give the xpa 3 or 5 a shot. they both sound like a pretty good deal...

[-BC-]

im not to sure about buying a used amp though.

I understand your concern but an outboard amp is one of if not the most reliable piece of audio equipment you will have. An amp takes a signal from a receiver/processor and amplifies it and sends it out through your speakers as sound. That's it. No moving parts,no processors inside.

I bought my one owner 10 year old B&K for $100.00. I sent it to the shop for a good checkup and cleaning($90.00) and it runs cool and quiet and has transformed my system. I am not saying that you should by from the used market but you can find many like new pieces out there for a fraction of the cost of new.

Bill

one more question and it has to do with pre amps and amps. would someone elaborate on both of them and explain which set up is best.

[Brac]

Best is a seperates system, meaning you have a source (cd/ phono/ dvd whatever) which goes into pre-amp, (think of this as switching processing, and volume control, then from there to the amp.

The other route is just a receiver which does the job of both the amp and the pre.

A well built amp, is pretty much bullet proof, that's why a good high end amp comes with a 20 year plus warranty. If they have a fan for cooling, the fan can go bad then you could overheat the amp. An amp with heat sinks and no fan just does it's job always.

[willland]

BC,

If you are not quite sure 200w/channel will be enough, here is something interesting. Look at this review of the XPA-2.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/496.html?task=view&start=3

"Power output at 8 ohms is very solid up to 300 watts (0.04% THD+N), before a rapid rise to clipping (1% THD+N) at 340 watts. At 4 ohms, output reached 400 watts (0.07% THD+N) before the rise to clipping at 480 watts. No question, the XPA-2 will really put out some juice."

If Emotiva's power specs for the XPA-2 is 200w/channel and the amp tests at 300w/channel, I am sure the XPA-3 also tests way above mfr specs.

Bill

[-BC-]

Best is a seperates system, meaning you have a source (cd/ phono/ dvd whatever) which goes into pre-amp, (think of this as switching processing, and volume control, then from there to the amp.

The other route is just a receiver which does the job of both the amp and the pre.

A well built amp, is pretty much bullet proof, that's why a good high end amp comes with a 20 year plus warranty. If they have a fan for cooling, the fan can go bad then you could overheat the amp. An amp with heat sinks and no fan just does it's job always.

thank you for the break down sir

[-BC-]

BC,

If you are not sure quite sure 200w/channel will be enough, here is something interesting. Look at this review of the XPA-2.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/496.html?task=view&start=3

"Power output at 8 ohms is very solid up to 300 watts (0.04% THD+N), before a rapid rise to clipping (1% THD+N) at 340 watts. At 4 ohms, output reached 400 watts (0.07% THD+N) before the rise to clipping at 480 watts. No question, the XPA-2 will really put out some juice."

If Emotiva's power specs for the XPA-2 is 200w/channel and the amp tests at 300w/channel, I am sure the XPA-3 also tests way above mfr specs.

Bill

thank you Bill for that interesting fact

[psg]

Edit: Misread. Forget it.

[psg]

will 200w be enough to make me go "WOW this sounds great."

Let me be the first dessenting voice... Or at least offer another opinion.

You are not starting from a bottom-line receiver. The Elite line has a good rep. I don't know the model you specified; maybe you mistyped 91? A Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH outputs 110W per channel. Upgrading to 200 W will give you 3 dB more juice, and to 300W will give you 5 dB. While significant, it may not be earth shattering in terms of extra dynamics and SPL. Going higher still is likely to be dangerous to the speakers.

Are you finding that you are turning your volume knob past 0 dB on the dial? I do most of my music listenning at -30 dB or less on a 50W receiver, occasionally up to -10 dB and up to 0 dB on one single drum SACD. I could use the extra 6 dB to 200 W on that one record, and I might be buying a Monster amp from a friend to do just that. But I know I typically listen at 0.1 W per channel rather than 200W.

[russ69]

psg,

You are right, 100 watts to 200 watts is only 3 db but I can tell you 100 receiver "watts" is not the same as 200 separate amps "watts", OK so maybe it is but the big amp will sound much stronger than the 3 db difference suggests.

Thanx, Russ

[Colin]

BC- don't think a better will make that much of a difference, if you need more punch, get a sub

Jonathon Valin in The Absolute Sound (Septemebr 09) gave a rave review to the $800 Odyssey Khartago Power Amplifier comparing to much more expensive amplifiers.

Willand - there is a spot on your profile page for your long equipment lists (hint, hint)

[-BC-]

will 200w be enough to make me go "WOW this sounds great."

Let me be the first dessenting voice... Or at least offer another opinion.

You are not starting from a bottom-line receiver. The Elite line has a good rep. I don't know the model you specified; maybe you mistyped 91? A Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH outputs 110W per channel. Upgrading to 200 W will give you 3 dB more juice, and to 300W will give you 5 dB. While significant, it may not be earth shattering in terms of extra dynamics and SPL. Going higher still is likely to be dangerous to the speakers.

Are you finding that you are turning your volume knob past 0 dB on the dial? I do most of my music listenning at -30 dB or less on a 50W receiver, occasionally up to -10 dB and up to 0 dB on one single drum SACD. I could use the extra 6 dB to 200 W on that one record, and I might be buying a Monster amp from a friend to do just that. But I know I typically listen at 0.1 W per channel rather than 200W.

typically when im watching a movie i have the volume at about -10.
with music i have it somewhere between -5 and -15, depending on what it
is im listening to. with my pioneer elite (vsx-01txh) pushing 110w per
channel it sounds good but i cant help but say, "hhmm its still missing
something.'' to my ears, at the moment, my speakers lack the output
that i desire. im looking for that full bodied sound that really sucks
u into whatever your listening to. i know the rf-63 are very capble of
doing this much, its just a matter of the components driving them.

[-BC-]

BC- don't think a better will make that much of a difference, if you need more punch, get a sub

Jonathon Valin in The Absolute Sound (Septemebr 09) gave a rave review to the $800 Odyssey Khartago Power Amplifier comparing to much more expensive amplifiers.

Willand - there is a spot on your profile page for your long equipment lists (hint, hint)

i have a velodyne 12'' sub that kicks like a mule. im just lookin for more output from my 63's

[psg]

will 200w be enough to make me go "WOW this sounds great."

Let me be the first dessenting voice... Or at least offer another opinion.

You are not starting from a bottom-line receiver. The Elite line has a good rep. I don't know the model you specified; maybe you mistyped 91? A Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH outputs 110W per channel. Upgrading to 200 W will give you 3 dB more juice, and to 300W will give you 5 dB. While significant, it may not be earth shattering in terms of extra dynamics and SPL. Going higher still is likely to be dangerous to the speakers.

Are you finding that you are turning your volume knob past 0 dB on the dial? I do most of my music listenning at -30 dB or less on a 50W receiver, occasionally up to -10 dB and up to 0 dB on one single drum SACD. I could use the extra 6 dB to 200 W on that one record, and I might be buying a Monster amp from a friend to do just that. But I know I typically listen at 0.1 W per channel rather than 200W.

typically when im watching a movie i have the volume at about -10.
with music i have it somewhere between -5 and -15, depending on what it
is im listening to. with my pioneer elite (vsx-01txh) pushing 110w per
channel it sounds good but i cant help but say, "hhmm its still missing
something.'' to my ears, at the moment, my speakers lack the output
that i desire. im looking for that full bodied sound that really sucks
u into whatever your listening to. i know the rf-63 are very capble of
doing this much, its just a matter of the components driving them.

So you are not looking for more SPL, because you still have about 10 dB of gain left to go. You are hoping for more authority at the same SPL?

Do the RF-63 have a low impedence dip (like the RF-7) or wild phase swings? If not, I'd wager a separate amp won't make much of a difference. Hooking up a Carver m4.0t to the pre-outs of my hk avr-325 receiver didn't affect the sound for me (other than audible hiss from the Carver). I am likely to add an external amp for the 1% of the time when I want more than I get now with the volume dial at 0 dB (50W receiver), just to be able to push those KHorns to their max (but I hope I don't damage them!)

[TNRabbit]

Can you say SUNFIRE....

OR these would do the trick, too:

[Hifi jim]

psg,

You are right, 100 watts to 200 watts is only 3 db but I can tell you 100 receiver "watts" is not the same as 200 separate amps "watts", OK so maybe it is but the big amp will sound much stronger than the 3 db difference suggests.

Thanx, Russ

I agree. An amp from Rotel, NAD, B&K, McIntosh will have a much larger power supply than any receiver and provide more current. These amps will also double their power into a 4 ohm load, most receivers aren't capable of this. A big powerful amp will sound just like a big powerful amp. The old saying among car guys: "There is just no substitute for cubic inches", holds true here. A big amp can breathe life into music and make a receiver sound small and thin by comparison. I vote for a 200 watter like the B&K 7250, or 200.5.

[psg]

psg,

You are right, 100 watts to 200 watts is only 3 db but I can tell you 100 receiver "watts" is not the same as 200 separate amps "watts", OK so maybe it is but the big amp will sound much stronger than the 3 db difference suggests.

Thanx, Russ

I agree. An amp from Rotel, NAD, B&K, McIntosh will have a much larger power supply than any receiver and provide more current. These amps will also double their power into a 4 ohm load, most receivers aren't capable of this. A big powerful amp will sound just like a big powerful amp. The old saying among car guys: "There is just no substitute for cubic inches", holds true here. A big amp can breathe life into music and make a receiver sound small and thin by comparison. I vote for a 200 watter like the B&K 7250, or 200.5.

The analogy is flawed. Presumably you are using all the power of your big block engine. The OP states he uses his receiver for music at -10 dB on the volume dial. That's likely peaks of around 10 Watts per channel. How is swapping in 200 Watts of amplifier power going to help? It will only help if the speakers are a difficult load to begin with.

[Hifi jim]

The analogy is flawed. Presumably you are using all the power of your big block engine. The OP states he uses his receiver for music at -10 dB on the volume dial. That's likely peaks of around 10 Watts per channel. How is swapping in 200 Watts of amplifier power going to help? It will only help if the speakers are a difficult load to begin with.

I can't explain the scientific reasoning behind it, but I can attest to my own experiences. The power supply of any receiver is undersized compared with a separate amp. Most receivers have very little dynamic power and suffer from compression at louder volumes. At lower volumes, receivers tend to lack the oomph of a larger amp and sound small and thin by comparison. The larger and more powerful amps tend to breathe life into the music and give a more solid and 3D image. Smaller amps tend to be unable to let the music out the box, er speaker. The older HK twin power receivers from the seventies have huge power supplies, larger than any current 7 channel AVR, and I believe it's this reason that they sound so good and are so popular with many here on the forum. The small HK 430 is what, thirty watts? But it would easily sound fuller and more alive than most modern AVRs with three times the wattage. The one spec that I care about when looking for amps (solid state), is the weight. A heavier amp has a larger and more powerful power supply. Todays AVRs are about 25-35 pounds with seven channels to feed? Most two channel receivers from 30 years ago weighed that, or more.

[-BC-]

will 200w be enough to make me go "WOW this sounds great."

Let me be the first dessenting voice... Or at least offer another opinion.

You are not starting from a bottom-line receiver. The Elite line has a good rep. I don't know the model you specified; maybe you mistyped 91? A Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH outputs 110W per channel. Upgrading to 200 W will give you 3 dB more juice, and to 300W will give you 5 dB. While significant, it may not be earth shattering in terms of extra dynamics and SPL. Going higher still is likely to be dangerous to the speakers.

Are you finding that you are turning your volume knob past 0 dB on the dial? I do most of my music listenning at -30 dB or less on a 50W receiver, occasionally up to -10 dB and up to 0 dB on one single drum SACD. I could use the extra 6 dB to 200 W on that one record, and I might be buying a Monster amp from a friend to do just that. But I know I typically listen at 0.1 W per channel rather than 200W.

typically when im watching a movie i have the volume at about -10.
with music i have it somewhere between -5 and -15, depending on what it
is im listening to. with my pioneer elite (vsx-01txh) pushing 110w per
channel it sounds good but i cant help but say, "hhmm its still missing
something.'' to my ears, at the moment, my speakers lack the output
that i desire. im looking for that full bodied sound that really sucks
u into whatever your listening to. i know the rf-63 are very capble of
doing this much, its just a matter of the components driving them.

So you are not looking for more SPL, because you still have about 10 dB of gain left to go. You are hoping for more authority at the same SPL?

Do the RF-63 have a low impedence dip (like the RF-7) or wild phase swings? If not, I'd wager a separate amp won't make much of a difference. Hooking up a Carver m4.0t to the pre-outs of my hk avr-325 receiver didn't affect the sound for me (other than audible hiss from the Carver). I am likely to add an external amp for the 1% of the time when I want more than I get now with the volume dial at 0 dB (50W receiver), just to be able to push those KHorns to their max (but I hope I don't damage them!)

More authority is exactly what im looking for!

im not sure
how to answer your low impendence and wild phase swing questions. i
know what "sounds good," but what am i looking for as it relates to
those questions?

[-BC-]

Can you say SUNFIRE....

ive looked into sunfire and really really like there TGA-7401. that thing pumps out some serious power! its just to expensive. the TGA-7201 is just as good but still on the pricey side