Comments on a Klipsch/EV crossbreed?

[Analog Addict]

Dropping by for a quick fly by....I've just closed out a deal to trade for a set of Heresy components, which are to the best of my knowledge....

K-77 tweeters with horns, K-55-V squawkers with the K-700 horns, and Heresy woofers, along with the stock X-overs. The organ recipient will be a set of BOTL Ev Aristocrats.

I was kinda curious to see what an upgrade to these might sound like, since the full range EV SP-12B didn't do much for me. Now it looks like I will be building a mini-set of K-horns to compare against my full size ones.

Anyone have any thoughts about how these should be crossed over? Should I stick with the SP-12B down low or use the Heresy woofer instead?

Anything else I should consider?

Cheers!

[seti]

Wow those are in great shape.

I had a pair of Aristocrats and thought they sounded rather nice. We listened to them on an all vintage system Scott 299 and a Garrard 301 spinning some Les Baxter and Ventures. My aristocrats had the 12" Wolverines which were the budget speakers for this enclosure. The EV model 12TRX is considered the best driver for this enclosure. If I had an opportunity to have them again that is what I would try.

[djk]

You have to be a forum member on the host forum that your photos are at, most people will not be able to see them.

[DTLongo]

Couldn't see your photos. Can you possibly re-send? What does BOTL mean?

I had a pair of used Aristocrats in college in the early 1960's. I forget exactly what speakers were in them. Still one of the most handsome cabinet designs ever, IMHO. Will be curious to hear your opinion of how they sound versus your Klipschorns after you get the work done.

[Analog Addict]

Couldn't see your photos. Can you possibly re-send? What does BOTL mean?

I had a pair of used Aristocrats in college in the early 1960's. I forget exactly what speakers were in them. Still one of the most handsome cabinet designs ever, IMHO. Will be curious to hear your opinion of how they sound versus your Klipschorns after you get the work done.

BOTL - bottom of the line.

Pix - try again.....

[DTLongo]

Got the pictures, thank you. Brought back memories.

[Malcolm]

The SP12B was the Heresy woofer for many years. I don't think you will hear much difference using a later model one. SP12B might actually be a better match for the Aristocrat depending on T/S paramenters.

Cross at the same frequencies as the Heresy. The deciding factors are the horns.

[seti]

The SP12B was the Heresy woofer for many years. I don't think you will hear much difference using a later model one. SP12B might actually be a better match for the Aristocrat depending on T/S paramenters.

Cross at the same frequencies as the Heresy. The deciding factors are the horns.

Malcolm that is very cool. I knew Klipsch licensed the Aristocrat plans to EV but didn't know it used a Hersy woofer.

[Malcolm]

More like PWK used an EV woofer in the Heresy. In the very earliest, before the H700, you might even find a Stephens.

If you look at the history of the components in his speakers, he just used whatever was available that would work. The Heresy had woofers from many different manufacturers over its production history.

If you use the SP12B, which is a 16 ohm speaker, you may want aType C network. To convert from Type E, it would amount to changing one capacitor from 2uF to 1uF, changing some taps on the autotransformer, and reversing the phase of the woofer. The schematics are floating around the forum someplace. From there you might want to play with level of the woofer relative to the squawker and tweeter to account for any differences in output due to the different box designs, if any.

[seti]

I've been lucky enough to hear a Stephens Trusonic recently. Those big blue drivers are great.

[Analog Addict]

Thought I'd just throw this up somewhere.....

I'm told that the E-2 as pictured has the 33uF cap across the woofer, and that the E-1 is lacking this cap, but otherwsie identical.

Oh and according to a knowledgable fellow on a nother audio forum...." the Heresy woofer may work better in a back-horn than the original
SP12B. The Qts of the Heresy woofer is only around .4 or .45 or so,
while the SP12B has a Qts of closer to .7... lower Qts usually means
better horn-loading..."

[Malcolm]

IIRC the inductor on the Type E is 2.5mH. Hopefully, somebody will correct me if I am wrong. But just use whatever comes with your horns and you should be OK with nothing more than maybe a cap change on the input to the autotransformer and a tap change depending on what woofer you wind up using.

The Aristocrat has a different design than a Klipschorn. If you look at it in cross section, it is more like a ported system with a horn shaped port. It doesn't have a sealed compression chamber. That may have an affect on what T/S parameters are desireable. Where did you get the T/S parameters for the SP12B?

FWIW E/V claimed the Aristocrat was flat to within 5dB down to 30Hz with a SP12B.

You might find this useful. And this.

[seti]

Here is the aristocrat with 12" Woverine. PWK referred to the Aristocrat as having a camel back curve. The wolverine had three settings on the back of it. I think this one was boosted hf.

[Analog Addict]

The T/S parameters were as described by GordonW of the AK forums. I don't know if he hangs here much, but is is one of the more respected speaker gurus on AK.

The drivers are on a FedEx truck and on the way. Should be a fun little project....

[Malcolm]

The reason I asked is that the SP12B dates from before T/S parameters were published. EV did publish T/S parameters for the SP12C which is an 8 ohm speaker with similar mechanical properties but different electrical parameters. Folks sometimes use these figures for the SP12B. But one would have to actually test the SP12 to get the real parameters. That said, I don't doubt that Qts of the new woofers is lower. I tested the SP12B and several of the following versions of the Heresy woofer at long time ago. I cannot put my hands on the results now. But I do remember that the figures were all over the place (yes I double checked my work). Just goes to show that the Heresy's sealed box design is very forgiving. Sometimes T/S parameters aren't as important as they seem.

Have fun!