carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 I've got my front two Forte IIs and Academy torn apart to so I could take the crossovers out and send them to DeanG. I've also ordered titanium tweeters from Bob Crites for all three as well. I moved my rear Forte IIs to the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 That was all well and good until I got ambitious and moved my Cornwalls in to the main front spot. I had them in a different room with less than ideal conditions and was very impressed with them. Now in my living room which has a little more room to breath I'm amazed at how much better these Cornwalls sound than the Forte II!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 Now in all fairness to the Forte IIs, the Cornwalls have fresh caps from Bob Crites and one of the tweeters stopped working so I put two new diaphragms from Bob in them too. When I get the crossovers back from DeanG for the Forte IIs I'll have to compare them then. I wish I had ordered the titanium tweeters first so I could compare my two pair of Forte IIs one with stock tweeters and the other with the titanium just to see the difference. Now one pair will have fresh caps and titanium and the other will have old caps and stock tweeters so hard to compare the individual changes now. OK, my point to this thread is to ask guys who have owned or own both Cornwalls and Forte IIs if they've found the sound of the Cornwalls to be a lot better than the Forte II or do you think when I get my "good" Forte IIs put back together with the new parts in the crossovers it will be closer?? Of course I could wait a few days and answer the question myself but what fun is there in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 Also do Cornwall owners toe in their speakers a lot? As you can tell from the pic above I've got them toe'd in a fair amount and they sound great. I know the golden rule really is what sounds the best is whats right but I still wanted to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 I don't know about Forte II's but I do have both Cornwalls and Forte I's. Though they're both Heritage, I could never get that familiar Heritage sound out of the Forte I's. To me the Cornwalls just sound so much better then the Forte I's. Midrange is more pronounce and bass is a little tighter though the Forte I's will go a bit lower. Both set are unmodified. The Forte I's are currently sitting in storage. I do not toe-in my Cornwalls. They are placed 7.5 feet apart from each other and 6 inches away from the corner of the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 I toe my Cornwalls very little and that's only because they are pretty much right in corners. I pull them out from the corners a little and toe them just a little, but the horns are not pointed right at my listening position, they are pointed out on each side of the listening position. I think it depends a lot on how far apart they are from one another. Mine are about 9' center to center. I get very good imaging with them this way. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 Mine are about 12' apart. I've backed off on the toe in and it still sounds good. Is there a good rule of thumb for Cornwalls and corners? My right one is in a corner but my left one has a wall behind it but not much past whats directly behind it. Then the wall is gone and it opens up to another room. I'd think since the ports are on the front they'd be much less picky about placement than my Forte IIs are. But then again when I use the subs and set the speakers to small I'd guess placement makes even less of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 My Cornwalls are 12' apart on a 23' wall. I toe them in just a little and get amazing imaging. I've always preferred Cornwalls to Fortes or Chorus but I know at least one or two people who disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Fortes would probably sound better if they were black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 My Cornwalls are in a small room hence the distance between them is only 7.5 feet. They're sitting in perfect corners and without toeing in, the imaging is quite amazing at 8 feet from the listening position. I agree with you and IMO, Corns are much better then Fortes. My Cornwalls are 12' apart on a 23' wall. I toe them in just a little and get amazing imaging. I've always preferred Cornwalls to Fortes or Chorus but I know at least one or two people who disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 Fortes would probably sound better if they were black. I'll get the paint out and report back the SQ improvement from painting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 LOLs! Your Corns are black maybe that's why they sound better! [] I'll get the paint out and report back the SQ improvement from painting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 LOLs! Your Corns are black maybe that's why they sound better! I'll get the paint out and report back the SQ improvement from painting them. Look at his front wall. I'm convinced they sound better without even hearing them in his room. With everything else being black the speakers got to be black. Isn't the mind a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 OK, my point to this thread is to ask guys who have owned or own both Cornwalls and Forte IIs if they've found the sound of the Cornwalls to be a lot better than the Forte II On a serious note, I have compared Chorus II,big brother of the Forte II, to Cornwall I(1976 with new xovers) and it really wasn't even close. If your talking around 80 dbs the Cornwall is an absolute amazing speaker. Once you throttle it no contest. Duke Spinner described the Cornwall the best I've ever heard it described. "Rumble Box" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 LOLs! Your Corns are black maybe that's why they sound better! I'll get the paint out and report back the SQ improvement from painting them. Look at his front wall. I'm convinced they sound better without even hearing them in his room. With everything else being black the speakers got to be black. Isn't the mind a wonderful thing. Ok, time for my review of of my painted black Forte IIs. I can't stop listening to music now. My old CDs seem new. I'm hearing things I've never heard before. Its almost as if a veil has been lifted, a big wool blanket really. Everything is so clear now. Highs are higher, lows are lower. Its a sonic nirvana. I can only imagine how much better the Forte IIs will sound tomorrow after the paint has had time to dry more. I'm guessing after a 100 hours of paint drying they will open up even more. Paint break in is a controversial thing on here I know, but I'm hearing proof it exists the longer I listen. I'll report back tomorrow night after they've had more time to dry. This black paint is the best upgrade I've ever done!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 LOLs! Your Corns are black maybe that's why they sound better! I'll get the paint out and report back the SQ improvement from painting them. Look at his front wall. I'm convinced they sound better without even hearing them in his room. With everything else being black the speakers got to be black. Isn't the mind a wonderful thing. This black paint is the best upgrade I've ever done!!!! Glad I could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted March 1, 2010 Author Share Posted March 1, 2010 OK, my point to this thread is to ask guys who have owned or own both Cornwalls and Forte IIs if they've found the sound of the Cornwalls to be a lot better than the Forte II On a serious note, I have compared Chorus II,big brother of the Forte II, to Cornwall I(1976 with new xovers) and it really wasn't even close. If your talking around 80 dbs the Cornwall is an absolute amazing speaker. Once you throttle it no contest. Duke Spinner described the Cornwall the best I've ever heard it described. "Rumble Box" Are you saying at low volumes the Cornwalls win but at high volumes the Chorus II wins? I listened to a set of Chorus IIs with the intent of buying them but they just didn't grab me. I'm sure the crossovers needed to be freshened up but overall I just couldn't pull the trigger. They sounded lifeless. I didn't throttle them too much maybe I missed something and missed out on some great speakers. I use that word because thats how I'd describe my Forte IIs that are now torn apart. Lifeless. Sound dull, especially at low volumes. As I was googling around the internet justifying my decision to send DeanG my crossovers (I'm the king of buyers remorse!) I found this on audiokarma: Originally Posted by soundguy From audiokarma If you have forte 1's, it is very unlikely that the electrolytic bipolar cap is performing anywhere NEAR spec, and if the blue mylar's are in spec, they sound so terrible, there is little reason to keep them in there. I have worked on a few pairs of forte 1's, and those caps leave alot to be desired but the electrolytic on the woofer has got to go. not knocking anyone that thinks an unmodified forte 1 in 2010 sounds great, but if you do the work on the crossover, there isnt one of those guys out there that wouldnt hear a difference. And its not some audiophile difference, its absolutely measurable and repeatable. caps have a shelf life and more of the "leave it stock" people really need to get a better understanding of that concept. They dont last forever and in the case of electrolytic construction, they dont last for decades and decades, this stuff needs replacing. Too many people on these boards look at the idea of changing a 20 year old electrolytic in a crossover as a mod or an upgrade when the stark reality of the situation is that its simply maintenance. Changing old forte crossover caps specifically is no more of an "upgrade" than putting new oil in your car. Sadly, many view the difference in sound as an upgrade because the old caps can be so dried and out of spec. An electrolytic turns into a resistor as it dries. You put a new cap in there and thee is huge bass again but its not because of some new super part, its because your old part was no longer a cap... Not all caps are of the same integrity and construction, some will last a very long time, others not long at all. In the case of the forte 1 crossover specifically, there is absolutely no holy grail of capacitor on that crossover and if you carefully clip them out, you can reinstall them if you think youve made a mistake by putting new caps in there... dont service your equiment if you dont want to, but there are few things as critical in a playback system as a properly set up crossover network on a three way speaker... No matter how good your source, no matter how much you put into an amp, no matter how much youve spent on a turntable, no matter how much youve tweaked your preamp, its ALL gotta go through the four caps on that crossover. You can spend tons of money, $20 for four caps or $8 for four caps and hear an improvement... Forte is my favorite klipsch, but the few I have heard in the last year with original crossovers are flat and lifeless sounding . It takes only about 15-20 minutes to replace the caps on the original crossover and its really not difficult to do. Many people out there have no idea what they are missing from equipment sitting right there in their living room... That last part really describes how my Forte IIs sound to me. If I turn them up there is a point they don't sound but for a good while as I turn up the volume dial they just sounded dead. I don't have to do too much searching on this forum to see that this isn't the way most guys would described them. I'm really excited to get my Forte II crossovers back from DeanG and get them installed!! When I get my crossovers back and installed I plan to listen to those Forte IIs vs my other pair of stock Forte IIs. The funny thing is before I put the Cornwalls in I was listening to my B team Forte IIs (finish is not not as nice as my varsity Forte IIs) and they sound a lot better than the ones I was using in front. The ones I'm updating are 1990s and my other ones are 1993s. I doubt three years would make the difference on the caps sucking or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 I've noticed my Forte IIs also sound a bit weak and lifeless at low volumes. Doesn't take much on the dial for them to come alive. Let me know how your 'new' Fortes sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted March 1, 2010 Author Share Posted March 1, 2010 I know this thread is in the two channel area but I'm sure we all jump around some and I hate to start a new thread to ask a question. Using Cornwalls in HT where do you guys set your crossovers at? I usully set my crossover at 80 but since the Corns (and Forte IIs for that matter) go pretty low should I set my crossover lower? Maybe just 60 instead of 80. I've got a XPA-5 so I'm not too worried about cutting of the LF to keep my Yamaha 663 from sweating since it does nothing except be a pre/pro. Just wondering what others are doing and what works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 1, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 1, 2010 I've noticed my Forte IIs also sound a bit weak and lifeless at low volumes. Doesn't take much on the dial for them to come alive. That's kind of what I was thinking, they need a little more power to bring out the bass and wake up the midrange. Where the Cornwalls also have more bass at lower power, but the other side of that at much higher volume the Cornwall can have to much bass (or not as clean) in some rooms. I like them both.....and this may sound crazy but at the same moderate volume to bring both of them "alive" but not stress the quality of either they sound surprisingly similar. I know it sounds crazy and the Cornwall had more bass but the voicing was similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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