Please help me choose an amp for Klipsch Palladium P-37F (Max $6000 USD)

[Jonny D]

I really want to stick with solid state as I believe this will provide with reliability and simplicity. I have never owned a full tube amp

It's an old wives tale that solid state is more reliable than tube. I'll give it to you that SS is a little more simple than tube, but is the trade-off for inferior sound quality worth it? Before committing to SS you have to listen to a good tube set-up; tubes are not as complex as people think. Don't believe everything you hear. Besides with SS your stuck with what you get, with tube you can roll tubes and create that sound you want!! Tubes are not more costly. Tubes get hot, but take the cabinet off a SS unit and see how hot they get. It'd be a shame to have such nice speakers only to mate them with dry, cold, ear fatiguing digital technology. Klipsch speakers love tubes!!! Tube technology has advanced so far. It's so easy now to bias tubes. Tubes last a long time!!! Get some VRD's from NOSValves.com and you never regret it!!! Way under your budget too.

I agree.

Having awsome speakers and SS is not taking an oppurtunity to acheive exceptional realism.

Home demos are nice but limitted in lenght. I have never had a home demo of any componemt i have bought.

Conrad Johnson, BAT and Audio Reseach make great tube preamps.

VRDs may have an equal ut I have not heard a tube power amp of equal bass weight and musical realism.

For Kicks just buy a rebuilt Scott tube integrated (not a MapleShade rebuild they destroy the preamp section).

In 2 weeks you can get a taste of what tubes can offer. If you do not like it you cann sell it for almost no loss. GREAT phono sections in a Scott compared to other vintage amps.

I started with a Scott LK-48 9 years ago.

Good luck

Thanks for the suggestion.

I like the BAT amps, however no local dealer. My local dealer which is within 3 miles, sells VAC, these look great but are a good bit over budget RRP on the VAC Phi200 is £7995 or almost $12,000. Valve amp manufacturers which are more readily available in the UK are Quad or Unison Research.

I've never head of or seen a Scott amp, may not be available in Scotland.

Can anyone tell me why so many expensive tube power amps use single ended inputs please?

I have always associated balanced inputs on a power amp to be a sign of quality, this may not be the case; however my understanding is that balanced circuitry is more expensive to implement. I own JPS Labs SuperConductor 3 XLR interconnects which I would like to use with my furure amp, I used these with my old Parasound Halo power amp. I know there are adaptors available but I'd rather use the XLR connector. I currently use JPS SC Q RCA between my pre and power (usually use these for CD - pre) as the current Parasound doesn't have balanced inputs, my pre does have balanced outs though so I'd like to use the SC 3 again on my new amp.

Thanks,

[Jonny D]

NuForce and Bel Canto are both Class D amps, but the similarity ends there. I've heard both, and while I'm not at all a fan of NuForce because of its lean and analytical nature, I do really like what I've heard from Bel Canto. I've heard neither on Klipsch but I can't imagine NuForce sounding good on your speakers. Bel Canto, on the other hand, has a more tube like presentation. I understand your concerns buying used, however, Class D amps should be more trouble free than solid state or tubes in the long run. If your dealer has some used Bel Canto gear, it's at the very least an opportunity to hear it on your speakers... or better yet, a home demo.

Hi Hifi Jim,

Thanks for the info. Your observations about Bel Canto being more tube like are exactly what the Klipsch and Nuforce dealer said about NuForce. They have offered a no obligation home demo on the latest Nuforce Ref monos, I nearly accepted, however after speaking with another dealer they put me right off the idea. There is a Bel Canto dealer within about 50 miles, I've never used them before though so haven't built up a good relationship.

The Klipsch dealer told me they have sold quite a few Palladiums with NuForce Ref 9 SE monos and the customers have been very happy.

I'll check ou the Ayre, a tube option and then possibly a Class D amp.

Thanks again for sharing your opinions.

[Hifi jim]

Perhaps the more recent products from NuForce are of a different sound. I heard their first generation amps and was very put off. Doesn't hurt to listen for yourself though and see what you think. I've heard Ayre at my local dealer and have always thought it excellent, but then I've never heard it on Klipsch speakers. Tubes, well there's nothing like them and half (probably much more than half) of this forum swears by them, especially on Klipsch. Lots of good choices out there. Good luck in your search and let us know your decision. Happy listening!

[Jonny D]

Perhaps the more recent products from NuForce are of a different sound. I heard their first generation amps and was very put off. Doesn't hurt to listen for yourself though and see what you think. I've heard Ayre at my local dealer and have always thought it excellent, but then I've never heard it on Klipsch speakers. Tubes, well there's nothing like them and half (probably much more than half) of this forum swears by them, especially on Klipsch. Lots of good choices out there. Good luck in your search and let us know your decision. Happy listening!

I'm glad to hear you liked Ayre, I've enjoyed listening to Ayre at the local dealers place on a couple of occasions. Really looking forward to trying the V5 with my speakers. I am surprised no one that uses or visits this forum uses Ayre with the Palladiums. I think there is a user that has the Ayre MXR monos with some heritage speakers and another person that's tried an Ayre AX-7 with Klipsch, however no one uses the brand with Palladiums, can't figure out why, maybe I'll find out tomorrow!

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

[LarryC]

My $0.02 ("my 2 cents"...):

• I think amp experts think that tube amps should not be left on all the time. The manufacturer of my OTL tube amps (see avatar) says they "should not be left on unattended." SS electronics frequently can be left on all the time, and some of those manufacturers recommend it for some of their models (and may not mount a switch, so you can't mess with it). I think some very small tube electronics can be left on, too. The issue may turn on the high current consumption of tube amps.
• Scott hasn't been manufactured since the 1960's or so, so we're talking used here. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Scott,_Inc. There are a few artisan-technicians who restore them, like Craig at NOSValves (http://www.nosvalves.com/index4.htm), and owners swear by them. They are ideal for high-efficiency speakers like Klipsch Cornwalls -- a great, rich sound, fabulous tube clarity, and no electronic noise from integrated amps like the 299 series. Buying one and having it fixed up will cost several hundred dollars in the US, and of course there's frequently a problem with faceplate marring, nicks, or bends.
• Far and away, listen and get what sounds good to you. I think you are being properly careful and will succeed.

[PrestonTom]

Well, the good news is that you do not need to spend $6000 for an amplifier. Unfortunately, much of the advice you are getting is from folks in the US, and we simply do not know what is readily avalailable and affordable in the UK.

Did the dealer make any suggestions? What did they use in their set up. Have you contacted Klipsch to see what they recommend?

Good Luck,

-Tom

[russ69]

Slow and easy is the best way. Play your new speakers for a couple of months, see what they need. Putting a system together is about matching the right gear together not buying the best this and the best that. Listen to the system, it will tell you what it needs.

[Cornman]

[8][8] Russ, your wisdom never ceases to amaze me . Your point, " Listen to the system, it will tell you what it needs. " is pure zen like audio truth in my book. Seriously Russ & Johonny D >excellent advise too a man whose greatest obstiicle is two many choices > Like "Riding thou the desert on a horse with no name."[:^)] As the man said johnny taste the flavors .. you will find the "One".

Cornman

[winchester21]

If those were mine I would HAVE to try various tubes before I settled on SS. I have had both tube and SS failures.

The VRDS absolutely murder anything else that I have ever heard so far regardless of price in my somewhat prejudiced opinion.

I have heard amps both SS and tube costing several times the price of the VRDs and I would not trade even for any of them. Dont know how they would match up with the your speakers at 60 WPC. Certainly worth a glance at 3500.00

[Jonny D]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and suggestions so far, the forum has been a great help.

I had an Ayre V5-XE on loan over the weekend to listen to with my Palladiums. I was enjoying it a lot, everything sounded so much better as I expected with an amp in this league. Acoustic music sounded excellent, bass was better than expected, all in all it was great. My general feeling was that I would go for this amp, until I played some Jazz on Sunday morning. I started out with a Cannonball Adderley CD (Somethin' else) and I couldn't listen any more, high frequencies were just a little too high. There was a slight piercing quality present which just gave me a sinking feeling, I thought I was onto a winner! I think this is a characteristic of the speakers rather than the amp, it's just that it was highlighted by the amp, evidently a mismatch.

I returned the amp before work and had a chat with my local dealer (not a Klipsch dealer), he has suggested I try the Art Audio Diavolo SET amp. I am now seriously considering a tube amp. My dealer has ordered one for me to try, I have read in a few reviews that it can sound a bit bright which worries me a little. The SoundStage! review stated that the treble leans slightly to the bright side of ideal, this worries me a bit as this isn't the only reviewer that thought this. I'll give it a try anyway. The Art Audio Diavolo (http://www.artaudio.com/diavoloindex.html) is a 13 WPC single ended design, I have been told by my dealer this should work fine with my Palladiums (which he has never heard, however he is familiar with previous designs from Klipsch) from the reviews I've read relating to power I think it should be ok.

Does anyone know if this 13 WPC Art Audio tube amp will have any problems driving my speakers?

Most people on here seem to be steering me towards a tube amp, however I haven't heard from any other Klipsch Palladium owners which surprises me.

As recommended I have emailed Klipsch for amp suggestions and received a very diplomatic response, they didn't really want to be seen promoting any one brand, which is fair enough I suppose.

For anyone that's interested I have attached a photo of the Ayre amp with the speakers in my room. It does look excellent and is very well built.

[LarryC]

I'm a believer in the need to "break in" components to be sure they're sounding their best. Electronics, wire (I/C's, speaker wire, and power cords), turntables and CD players -- you name it -- all need to break in IMO. I have a vague impression that 40-50 hrs. is about right for most things unless the manufacturer says more is needed. I'd want to be sure those Ayers were well settled in before making judgements.

Also, oddly, I believe that moving around even well-broken-in wires will make things sound pinched and uninspired until they play a few hours and start sounding right again. So, just be sure everything is reasonably broken in and the wires have settled back in.

Many here also believe that mains power is "dirtier" during the day and doesn't sound good until evening.

[Jonny D]

I'm a believer in the need to "break in" components to be sure they're sounding their best. Electronics, wire (I/C's, speaker wire, and power cords), turntables and CD players -- you name it -- all need to break in IMO. I have a vague impression that 40-50 hrs. is about right for most things unless the manufacturer says more is needed. I'd want to be sure those Ayers were well settled in before making judgements.

Also, oddly, I believe that moving around even well-broken-in wires will make things sound pinched and uninspired until they play a few hours and start sounding right again. So, just be sure everything is reasonably broken in and the wires have settled back in.

Many here also believe that mains power is "dirtier" during the day and doesn't sound good until evening.

Hi LarryC,

Thanks for your comments and pointers.

I agree with break in too. The Ayre was a dealer demo unit and is a couple of years old so is well run in, I have already listened to the exact same amp I brought home on other speakers at the dealers.

I set the amp up on Friday evening at around 7pm and listened through to 1am, I was working on Saturday but listened again from around 7pm through to 2am, on Sunday I listened from 10am through to 11pm (had a couple of dog walks in between!)

I did really enjoy the Ayre, one track by King Creosote (Scottish artist) really stood out and was the best I've ever heard on any system, it was just the trumpet that got me on two albums (Miles Davis and Cannonball Adderley). I feel I got a good handle on it during the time I spent with it.

[runninshine]

Jonny D, you are kind of a pioneer around here.....not too many Palladium owners yet.