Cary SLI-80 and Heresy IIs?

[JoshT]

Perhaps I'm getting a little nutty here, but I am seriously considering buying the Cary SLI-80 integrated amplifier. It's expensive at about $2,700 discounted, but seems to have a lot going for it, including decent power (50wpc in triode mode and 80wpc in pentode mode), remote control for volume, headphone jack, and it is a true all tube design.

I listened to it yesterday at Goodwins Audio in Boston with some B&W CDM1NTs and it seemed plenty strong with those power hungry speakers. I picked them on purpose, because I have CDM1SEs, which I would probably still listen to from time to time (though the Heresys would be the primary speakers).

I thought the amp sounded very nice, though not particularly "tubey." I sounded very open and detailed and clear, but not particularly lush.

The dealer expressed some concern that the Cary might not sufficiently control the 12" woofer of the Heresys, but I don't know. It seems to me that, despite their size, the Heresy woofers are fast and probably easy to control.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[khorn58]

Goodwins Audio in Boston I went there asking about amps for my khorns and was trully insulted as to why I would bother with horns.They hated all klipsch speakers said thet sound like Pa speaker.They played some 75k speakers for me that really did sound that impressive.They told me If I wanted a tube amp I would have to spend 5 grand for anything decent.

I thought they were totall full of themself,I wont go back.

There are a lot of good tube amps on the matket Now for a lot less that sound as good ao better.

I sure do miss the Music Box in wellesley mass.I trully great Klipsch Delealer that dated back to the 50,s.

But sadly closed up a few years ago.I hav'nt found a graet place to but audio in boston since.

I think there is a good Klipsch delear somewere in RI that might be a better place to shop for amps to go with klipsch.

The Cary amps are ok But way way over priced.

I would try a good rebuit scott 299 or eico first.

or for around 1500 marantz 8b.

[DVois]

KHORN58,

Take a look at a thread I started when I was selling my Heresy's. (Heresy II's For Sale (Upgrading) Any Takers?) There is info. here for a place that really appreciates Klipsch and has been selling them for a very long time

Doug

------------------

Current System

Cornwalls 1 (LF/RF)

??????????? (LR/RR)

RC-7 (Center)

KSW-12 (Sub)

Adcom GTP500

Yamaha DSP-A1

H/K DVD-50

(Future Expansion)

LaScala's (soon)

AVR 8000

TUBES

[JoshT]

Hi Khorn58 and DVoise,

The Music Box in Wellesley truly was an interesting (and somewhat strange) store. As Khorn58 knows, it sold high end audio equipment in the rear of the store. That is where I was bitten by the Klipsch bug. Since about 1979 I wanted a pair of Heresys -- but didn't have the money back then. I finally got my Heresys (IIs) last weekend from DVoise (see our posts below). In the front of the Music Box they sold records on one side and stationary and greeting cards on the other side! But since our country has become more generic and full of strip malls and national chains, places like the Music Box are all but gone. New England HiFi in Portland (or Scarborough) Maine is a rare example of a great family owned hifi store that still has character and sells Klipsch among other highend equipment. I actually think Mr. Bell of The Music Box was a bit of an arrogant and snooty guy -- at least as much as the folks at Goodwins.

I agree, Khorn58, to a certain extent with your assessment of Goodwins, but really it is not that bad. I have gotten to know Leland and Ralph and Steve quite well, and they know that their anti-Klipsch, anti-horn attitude doesn't work with me. We have established that, and they have let it go. In fact, they admit to some of the good qualities of Klipsch when you press them. I have bought most of my electronics from them and I think they are fair and have good stuff. Their snooty attitude is pretty skin deep once they know you. They have been good about setting equipment up for me in my home for little or no extra charge (which is important because of a disability I have).

I hear you on price of the Cary, but I did like the sound and I like the features I mentioned above. I really do need a remote control and I like the headphone feature too.

[mobile homeless]

I hate to say this, but whether a dealer likes or dislikes Klipsch should not be too high on the judgment scale for their validity since Klipsch really did fall to mass market for years and years with dealers with poor amplification and system support, as well as a general lack of knowledge. On the other hand, there are many useless dealers of all sorts with mediocre knowledge of equipment with even less knowledge of music.

Cary does have some nice products but I do think the SLI-80 is a bit on the high side for what you are getting. I would question buying something like this new, as the price is a bit on the HIGH side.

Still, for that loon to say the SLI-80 would have trouble controlling your woofers is off the mark although Cary's transformers are sure not their top selling point. But I think it wouild be MORE than fine to drive your vintage Klipsch.

If you DO desire the amp new, I would take it home for an audition of at least three days. If they refuse this, I would not buy from this place. Anyone remotely decent would allow an in-home audition once you are serious about the product.

Have you looked at much else?

kh

Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point

CD Player Rega Planet

Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified

Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks

Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect

Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-25-2002 at 06:54 PM

[JoshT]

Hi Mobile,

Thanks -- that is good advice. Leland at Goodwins did offer to let me take the Cary home for a few days. In fact, that was his suggestion without me even asking. I think they don't sell many of these, and they have last year's model there for demonstration purposes in case someone else is interested. You are right that I should not buy it under any other condition. That will let me hear it with the B&W CDM1SEs and the Heresys in my own room with my equipment.

I really have not looked around much, and perhaps I am rushing into this. I welcome any suggestions. Please bear in mind the following:

1. I really do want a remote control (for volume at a minimum). Because of a disability, I am not willing to get up each time I need to adjust the volume.

2. I would like the amplifier to be relatively flexible as far as what speakers it can drive (efficiency and impedence), and the Cary seems to have that flexibility.

3. I am not really into DIY, so if I buy used I would want some assurance that the tubes aren't about to die. I am willing to deal with some maintenance, but not constant tweeking.

4. I would want at least 3 inputs (for turntable, CD player and tuner); tape loop is not important.

Actually, I am getting intrigued by the Wave 8s because they are SO CHEAP, but then I would need a preamp (with remote), and they seem to get very mixed reviews. Hmmmm.

Anyway, thank you for any further advice you can give me.

[mobile homeless]

JoshT, those are all valid concerns and make sense to me up to a certain point. Of course, needing the remote control option does apparently cut down on your choices which makes it both easier and harder depending on your vantage point.

Unfortunately, there is another option that is rather inexpensive that would allow your selection to open up again. The little Creek OBH-12 which is a passive, remote controlled volume pot/switching device with up to three inputs would give you a very inexpensive remote control of both inputs and volume. Used, this piece comes in between $150-200.

Factor in some decent interconnects and you still have a valid option that would be very transparent as long as partnered with a pretty sensitive tube amp. Of course, as I said, this will open up your selection of choices to a great degree.

Regardless, you will need an additional phono stage since the Cary SLI-80 nor the Creek come with this. You always need a phono stage to amplify the very low levels of a cartridge (Moving Coil requires an even more proficient stage).

Still, if I were you, I would bring the Cary SLI-80 home anyway, just to audition and get a handle on it. See if you can get some better tubes with it from the dealer. I am not sure of this model but did you ask if it can play EL-34 as well? I know it can play 6550/KT-88.

I personally think the 6550 is a rather sterile tube with not a lot of finesse.

What kind of music do you listen to?

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 10:35 AM

[JoshT]

Thanks for your reply Mobile,

The Creek OBH-12 is an interesting idea. I had seen an add for it in Audio Advisor, but didn't really pay much attention to it at the time and am not sure how it works. I assume that the switching device works by having three line inputs and then one output that goes into one of the line inputs of the preamp or integrated amp? Is that right? How does the volume control work? Can the Creek work as a preamp alone, or does it only work as a volume/switching device together with a preamp or integrated amp?

I do have a phono preamp already. I have the little MM Creek, which looks just like the OBH-12, in one system, and the Rotel in the other system, and I like them both fine. The Rotel strikes me as being a little less dynamic and detailed, but as warmer and fuller.

According the the Cary website, the SLI-80 uses the following tubes: 6922 input buffer preamp; 6SN7 pre driver/phase inverter; 6550 output tubes (as you mentioned); and 5U4 Rectifiers. I understand from a poster on AudioAsylum that the tubes are from China and I'd be better off replacing them with Russian tubes (Sovtek or Svetlana I assume). Could you comment on that? Could you comment on which of the tubes most affect the sound and which you would recommend replacing (assuming I go with the SLI-80, which is far from certain). How much money are we talking about?

Sorry for coming back at you with more questions. I appreciate the input.

[edster00]

JoshT,

Let me chime in hear if I may...

The little Creek OBH-12 is a passive preamp, it does work as a peamp alone but it doesn't add any gain to the output of your sources. As long as your tuner and CDP have enough output voltage to drive your amp the Creek will do a superb job of adjusting the volume. You would also plug your Creek phonostage into the OBH-12 and then the output of the OBH-12 into your amp. I thought the OBH-12 just had 2 inputs though (if Mobile says it has 3 he should know) I'll have to check mine when I get home.

I now have both an active preamp (AES AE-3 Superpreamp...AES is a division of Cary) and a passive (Creek OBH-12) and I am in awe of the performance of the Creek! I absolutely love it, and the remote works great in that it is completely out of the circuit when you are not adjusting the volume.

[mobile homeless]

Ole Ed pretty much answered the Creek question. It would serve as the preamp. It has potentially has three inputs if you count the tape loop. Just plug in one more source here and it's seen as another line source (whether tapedeck or not). As Ed said, the Creek offers no gain stage and is, hence, VERY transparent and open sounding as the gain stage of most preamps can be their downfall.

Would be interesting since you have the little Creek phono stage although I have to admit, that when running my Cary tube preamp as the phono stage, I HAVE to go from the regular OUTPUTS and not the tape out, as this just isnt enough gain. Dont know how much gain the little Creek phono offers.

As said, you could use the little Creek OBH-12 into any amplifier (no need for an integrated here) as long as the source components have enough voltage and a good power supply, the interconnect were short (1m or less), and the amplifier was sensitive enough. For example, the Wright Sound 2A3 amps need an active preamp but the Moondogs 2A3 amps do ok with a passive. I personally, if pressed, prefer a quality active tube preamp for the midrange warmth, drive, and dynamics but I used my passive a lot as well. IT's a GREAT alternative and VERY open sounding.

(btw, the first mod I did to my CREEK gear was to TURN THAT UGLY GREEN WRITING faceplate around! The other side is plain black and looks much better. It took two minutes and looks great).

Also, I will make a bet that your amp would be able to run EL-34 with bias adjustments and perhaps a simple mod at Cary. Personally, I really like EL-34 over the 6550 sound.

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 03:46 PM