3.1 sound: Pair of L/R H3 speakers ... One RC center speaker?

[Radmanna]

Hello.

Playing with an idea of centering my TV above the fireplace. The fireplace is centered on an 18 foot south wall.

There is a good probability that the left & right Heresy III speakers will be 36 inches above the floor. However, having these speakers at this height, will limit my options on how to center my television above the fireplace, as well as the center speaker (in front of and above the fireplace). Questions please:

1. I believe one gentleman indicated that your L/C/R speakers should be horizontally aligned, but that the center speaker could be above or below the L/R axis by one foot. So one question, is how much above or below the line between the L/R speakers can the center speaker be, without reducing the theater quality?

2. I am working on finding a geometry that will allow me to have a Heresy III speaker as the center speaker, so that I have three H3 speakers in a 3.1 setup. However, the geometry is easier to work with, if the center speaker is shorter than the H3 speaker. I have heard negative comments about combining Heritage speakers with Reference speakers. So a second question, how well would an RC center speaker work with L/R H3 speakers?

3. If it is too encumbersome to have three H3 speakers in a L/C/R 3.1 setup, and because of apparent negative comments about combining Heritage speakers with Reference speakers, a third question: What would be a good Klipsch center speaker, that would complement L/R Heresy III speakers in a 3.1 setup?

The south wall is 18 feet wide, the couch where we would be watching TV is 10 feet in front of the south wall. We would always prefer to keep the volume low ... for both television home theater ... and for music being played as two channel stereo (with a subwoofer) with the Heresy III speakers.

[InVeNtOr]

i may be wrong, but a 3.1 doesn't exist. i don't think there is a receiver or processor out there that has that option. if there is, please let me know.

i think you will have to do a 2.0 or 2.1 set up. you could by a 5.1 receiver and have only 3 speakers but your "output" will be 5.1. so during a movie the sound effects (information) during the movie will not be played by any of your front 3 speakers.

from what i understand the heresy speakers are really best used with them selves. maybe an academy center will do, but i would ask those who have done it. i really stay out of the heritage line up. Steve at klipsch did tell me, the THX line is the best Sonic match for heritage. again, maybe someone who has experimented with that will chime in.

good luck on all of it.

[Rivernuggets]

i may be wrong, but a 3.1 doesn't exist. i don't think there is a receiver or processor out there that has that option. if there is, please let me know.

My receiver seems to allow it. Toggling the surrounds to 'none', the front L and R play the surround signal along with their usual duty. The surround effects seem to be quieter than when going through the dedicated surrounds. This is a Harman Kardon AVR525.

I only know this from using an incomplete HT system until we get into our new place.

[Radmanna]

Thanks for your response, Inventor. I apparently have made in incorrect assumption about having a receiver or process that could tri-channel movie audios into three separate (and forward of listener) speakers: So there is no such animal as a three-channel (i.e., Front-Left & Front-Center & Front-Right) home theater setup?

After reading your understanding that three-channel systems do not exist, I did two Googles as follows:

(a) I first did a Google of < "Home Theater", 3.1 >. There are currently home theater packages (Sony for example) that are available, but these are sets of three small bookshelf speakers, and the advertisements of these 3.1 packages do not provide a description of whether or not sound is funneled as a two channel or three channel setup.

( I next did a Google of < Klipsch, 3.1 > and found the following Klipsch advertisement, which I'm providing below in Italics:

START: KSB-3.1 Bookshelf Speaker: < http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/ksb-3-1-details/ > ... You have selected a discontinued product. The two-way Synergy Series KSB-3.1 bookshelf loudspeaker was first introduced in 1997 and manufactured by Klipsch until 1999. While no longer in production, KSB-3.1 model loudspeakers are still owned and listened to by Klipsch fans around the world as part of two-channel audio and home theater surround sound systems. To connect with other people who are passionate about audio and interested in Klipsch products, visit one the several areas on our open forum bulletin board. STOP

A photo of the KSB-3.1 setup shows a pair of large bookshelf speakers, a center speaker, and a good-sized subwoofer. I'm curious why Klispch discontinued their 3.1 setup, and possibly it was to simply keep up with the current surround sound preference for 5.1 systems.

So, please answer four Home Theater questions, because apparently I'm suited for setting up a two channel home theater system:

1. If I get a pair of Heresy III speakers, and place them in the left & right corners of my 18 foot south wall, what benefits are there in getting a center speaker, if I am just using a receiver that is providing a two channel separation of Home Theater audio sound? In other words, wouldn't a center speaker be redundant for a two channel Home Theater setup that is comprised of a pair of (excellant) speakers and one subwoofer?

2. Another question: A primary reason for choosing at least two Heresy III speakers (and one subwoofer) for my living room, is to enjoy two channel stereo music from high fidelity formats such as SACD. So, if I just had a 2.1 home theater setup ... with an H3 speaker at the Left & Right corner of my 18 foot south wall ... and with me sitting ten feet in front of the center of these two H3 speakers ... would there be good home theater quality with just a pair of (excellant) speakers and one subwoofer? In other words, would the H3 speakers being about 15 feet apart ... and being played in a two channel format ... be able to make up for the lack of a center speaker?

3. With a 2.1 home theater setup ... would the sound from the talking actors be perceived as originating from the center of the Left and Right speakers?

4. Would I at least be able to get good stereo effects from televsion movies, with just a 2.1 home theater system that is comprised of a pair of H3 speakers and a good subwoofer?

Steve

[InVeNtOr]

well i am not sure about that 3.1 set up. you may have to call klipsch and see if you can get anymore info on it. i know you can have a 5.1 and turn the surrounds off, but it still should only play the main L and main R.

1.(answer) yes.

2. (answer) yes.

3. (answer) not sure what you are trying to say. if you properly set up a 2.1 channel, you can actually fool other people, and yourself in thinking the sound is coming from the middle. i did a RB-61 set up for a friend. he had a left over center channel speaker (something from a box set up) and i just set the speaker under the tv. i told him i hooked it up. i then played a demo for him. he was convinced that the sound came from a speaker that wasn't even hooked up. his eyes about popped out of his head when i grabbed it and handed it to him. so yes, if you set up your two Hersey's correctly, you will think the sound is coming from the middle of both speakers. it's also know as a phantom center.

4. (answer) yes. i was a little blown back by this. i thought with 2 speakers it just wouldn't be the same for a movie experience. now don't get me wrong, a very nice 7.1 set up all tuned in, balanced, and tweaked to perfection is going to blow the doors off of any 2 speakers in a movie environment. however, 2 properly set up speakers will hold their own. i feel it's best to have a really nice 2.1 set up, instead of a thrown together 5.1 just to say you have a 5.1.

the advice that most people would suggest is to set up the 2.1 first and see how you like it. if you feel no matter what, you will want a 5.1, then buy a good 5.1 receiver and use it in 2 channel until funds are enough to buy 3 more speakers. like i said earlier, when it comes to Hersey's, most people say having an all Hersey set up is very very very nice. it seems like they don't play well with others. or you can simply buy a really good stereo receiver and be done. i think spending more money on crossover upgrades, binding posts, power cords, rca connectors, and stuff like that (especially crossover and speaker mods) will yield you far more enjoyment than trying to figure out some kind of weird set up.

you do have H3's, so as far as mods go, i am unsure of what you can do. either way, i say set up the 2.1 and enjoy it.

if no one has told you yet, check out Monoprice.com for wire and cable needs. they have a good selection to get you started. after you have had it up for a while you can experiment if you like.

[InVeNtOr]

i just did some google searching and now i am really confused. first off it was like i was reading the same question over and over again. almost word for word, weird.

i would read all the responces, and one person would say it doesn't exist, and another would suggest it. for giggles, i would call the receiver manufacture you plan on buying from and see if they do have a receiver that will do it. who knows, maybe there is one out there. i did see "all in one" set ups for a 3.1 but thats not what you are trying to do.

you can call around if you like, but if you do set the 2 up right, you will think sound is coming from a phantom center channel.

[Olorin]

i may be wrong, but a 3.1 doesn't exist.

I'd say you are, if you're saying what I think you're saying. []

i don't think there is a receiver or processor out there that has that option. if there is, please let me know.

My decidedly lower-midrange Harman Kardon AVR-235 from four or five years ago does it, and the decidedly low-range Kenwood AV-509 I had in 2001 did it. You turn on the fronts and center and sub, and turn off the surrounds. Voila. 3.1.

I ran my Chorus IIs, Academy, and sub that way for most of the last year.

i think you will have to do a 2.0 or 2.1 set up. you could by a 5.1 receiver and have only 3 speakers but your "output" will be 5.1. so during a movie the sound effects (information) during the movie will not be played by any of your front 3 speakers.

Okay, now I think we just may be using different words for the same thing, except you're talking about leaving the surround channels on and having the output feed to nothing. I suppose one could do that, but it seems better to turn off the surrounds in the processor. The result is the same in that all of the signal that would have gone to the surrounds is dropped, but with the surrounds off in the processor, the signal is killed before the amp stage. However, the discrete left, center, right, and LFE channels are still utilized. Think of 3.1 as being 2.1 with a center, and I think we're on the same page.

from what i understand the heresy speakers are really best used with them selves. maybe an academy center will do, but i would ask those who have done it. i really stay out of the heritage line up. Steve at klipsch did tell me, the THX line is the best Sonic match for heritage. again, maybe someone who has experimented with that will chime in.

good luck on all of it.

I'm with you here. I've used an Academy with Heresys and the whole was less than the sum of the parts. The Academy adds to the experience with Quartets, Forte (II)s, and Chorus (II)s, but takes away from it with the Heresys. They're just different enough to be distracting instead of complimentary, IMO.

[Radmanna]

Thanks for input, Olorin. So, if I have it correctly ... conventional receivers (or processors) are not constructed for just 3.1 ... but 5.1 systems can be routed entirely through just a pair of front speakers and center speaker (and also a subwoofer for the .1). Is this possibly how the Klipsch 3.1 system was configured?

To better understand, let's say I want to commit to just a 2.1 setup. Then I don't need to buy a receiver or processer that can separate television sound through five channels (four corners of the room + center speaker). I would just need a two channel processor. Are the top end processors for two channel systems just as good (sound-wise) as five channel systems? Is there a significant difference in cost between a two channel processor and a five channel processor?

The above questions would be helpful, if for example, I first set my H3's as a 2.1 system,and later decide I want to re-route a five channel system via two main speakers and center speaker. Or for another example, if I first set my H3's as a 2.1 system, and am satisfied with the sound.

Steve

[Olorin]

Thanks for input, Olorin. So, if I have it correctly ... conventional receivers (or processors) are not constructed for just 3.1 ... but 5.1 systems can be routed entirely through just a pair of front speakers and center speaker (and also a subwoofer for the .1). Is this possibly how the Klipsch 3.1 system was configured?

To better understand, let's say I want to commit to just a 2.1 setup. Then I don't need to buy a receiver or processer that can separate television sound through five channels (four corners of the room + center speaker). I would just need a two channel processor. Are the top end processors for two channel systems just as good (sound-wise) as five channel systems? Is there a significant difference in cost between a two channel processor and a five channel processor?

The above questions would be helpful, if for example, I first set my H3's as a 2.1 system,and later decide I want to re-route a five channel system via two main speakers and center speaker. Or for another example, if I first set my H3's as a 2.1 system, and am satisfied with the sound.

Steve

Right, to use what we're calling a 3.1, you're basically taking a 5.1- or 7.1-capable receiver and using only some of its capabilities. In a 3.1 as we're describing it you're just dropping the rear channels and not using them at all. I don't know anything about the Klipsch 3.1 system so I can't comment on it.

You're also right that you don't need a full-on surround receiver to do stereo plus a sub, and there are some good stereo receivers out there that will take your audio signal and do exactly that. Harman Kardon makes a couple, as does Onkyo, and I'd be surprised if Yamaha didn't, though I'm not familiar enough with their line to know if they do or not. I'd be concerned, though, that a two-channel receiver wouldn't be able to decode the audio formats that DVDs and the like use. I don't know if that's a valid concern or not, but it's something to research. On the other hand, you could get around that potential shortcoming by using analog outputs from your devices so they would be doing their decoding instead of the receiver doing it.

So you can see there are a lot of ways to tackle the problem. Getting a 7.1 receiver that can decode all the latest DVD and BluRay audio formats and that can also run as many speakers as you might ever want it to definitely gives you the smoothest upgrade path if you change your mind later. Cost is entirely up to you. I've only talked about mass-market consumer level gear because that's the field I play in, but as you know you can spend as much as you want to on this stuff.

[Thaddeus Smith]

I'm running LCR ..i may be getting all of the information from the movie, or i may not be; either way, i have no issue enjoying movies. it's not surround sound, but i made the choice and adjusted my expectations accordingly.

having said that ..i miss the sub on certain movies.

[InVeNtOr]

if you have the cash right now for 3 more Hersey's, then i would buy a good 5.1 receiver. if you don't i would stick with the stereo receiver. electronics get cheaper everyday. by the time you saved enough for all the Hersey's you need, the same receiver you bought (5.1) would be cheaper, or a better one would be out for the same price.

i would post again and ask people who specifically have a 5.1 Hersey set up and see how they like it vs. what ever they had before. i know there is a few people here that have them.

good luck with it all.