AUDIOPHILE EMERGENCY! my $42,000 home theater...

[TheEAR]

Mystery Guest,

Yes I am,I have to restrain myself a bit more.I know well the truest Klipsch are the K-Horns.And a HT system around all K-Horns would be almost HT nirvana with a few SVS Ultra subs.

In the real world the RF-7's are awesome HT speakers and great for many musical genres.Now I have two pairs of RF-7's,after I move I will add pair 3 and mod the front center to a RF-7C.

Justin,

As HornEd pointed you could audition RF-7's and then if you like them(HOW CAN YOU NOT!!!???)get an all RF-7 system!With projectors you can place the center RF-7 in the middle and not even mod the speaker like I will have to do.

In any case audition some K-Horns in you at all can.I am sure you will not be disapointed.

With Klipsch you will end having a win win situation.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Steve Phillips]

Paul Klipsch"all speakers are corner speakers,by placing a speaker in a corner you will gain 6 dB in output".

------------------

Steve & Becky's HT

Mondial Tech Support

This message has been edited by Steve P on 04-02-2002 at 11:02 PM

[justin_tx_16]

thanks for all the help, i am really under the weather right now, 3rd day of 101+ fever, up to a 104.7... just woke up again and saw these posts. thanks so much for the advice.

ok, i think the Ref 7 is what we will be getting. but still, how does the prologic or whatever it would be do 7 speakers from stereo or quadrophonic? i have heard prologic, having it on my synergy 6, and not too impressed, how would it sound as 7.1? or is it a totally different deal.

i would have liked to go heritage but i don't think the time frame, and room demensions, will work for me. so, about the amps and whatnot. i would need dedicated amps and receivers (seperates) right? and is there such a thing as a 7 speaker amp, or would i get two say 4 channel amps and have one extra channel

i am WAY over my head here, this is not a computer haha (that is my forte, check the promedia forums haha)

thanks again so much

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

justin, get well soon. we have noticed your not your chipper self lately.

1st yea like i said aragon, b&k, outlaw, etc. are all now puttin out 7 channel amps. then u get a pre/pro like that stage one & 7 interconnects & you set. or u could get a 7.1 receiver but w/ a 42k budget why not go for the gusto? mondial which makes aragon is now owned by klipsch.

forget quad. that's no more. you hook the 7 speakers up to the amp & u plug the pre/pro into the amp w/ those 7 interconnects. u run the subs off the sub out of the receiver or pre/pro as those must then be amplified by their own amp(s). in surround sound the sub channel or LFE is the .1 in 5.1.

but whether it's stereo, prologic, DD 5.1, dts 6.1 discrete depends on how the material is encoded. you can downmix in the decoding DD 5.1 to prologic (not that you'd want to) but not vice-versa. so to do higher level formats you need the disks/material encoded w/ such.

if you get the stage one or an upper end pre/pro or receiver, you'll have all the decoders u need for all the material out there (well barring some of the exotic like dvd-audio & sacd).

www.dolby.com & www.dtsonline.com have a wealth of info to learn about how surround sound tech works. keep in mind the difference between # of channels and # of speakers. you can run 2 channel music through 7.1 speakers. you could hook 2 pair of side surround speakers to the surround channel w/ a higher power amp.

even though u'd have 4 speakers, they'd only be playing

2 channels (2 speakers SR & 2 speakers Surround Left).

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[HornEd]

ProLogic was a popular outgrowth of a decade ago when audio "clues" were used to give stereo a surround boost. The primary sound came from the Mains and when your ears picked up the audio clue, it would associate appropriate non-directional sounds with it.

ProLogic added to that sound spectrum on less than full range coverage. This is when bi-pole and di-pole speakers began to show up... they spread the "ambient" character of ProLogic's stereo supplement over a wide area. I agree with you, Justin, it's weak and has never been one of my favorites... although it did become a standard that haunts us today.

The thrust of the future is multi-channel "discrete" sound... sound that is supposed to come from a speaker in a particular location. When the sound engineers want to create an ambient sound in a movie, they just send it to all of the monopole speakers, and if it is mixed right... it works very nicely.

Dolby Digital ProLogic has come out with a new updated version for 5.1 (and above) systems... and in an attempt to contain the popularity of arch rival dts... which uses an algorithm that it claims gives more information to the listener.

Most new receivers or pre-amps have both the latest

Dolby Digital and dts decoders on tap. You should expect a new one to at least convert 5.1 encoded disks to 6.1 discrete channels. 7.1 is still a bit new and where 6.1 has been used to encode movies like Gladiator no major movie that I know of has been encoded in 7.1 sound. And it will probably be awhile because of the small installed base of 7.1 systems.

Personally, I find that 7.1 adds very little to the huge benefit that 6.1 is over 5.1. For example, I find installing Front Effects speakers to be far more beneficial than adding an extra speaker to the back.

That being said, I also expect that more will be made out of the extra speaker in the back as time moves on. I suspect people are more driven to install 7.1 systems because it's the "in" thing... and not because of performance. Modern mixing techniques can do a very good job of creating excellent surround sound with three rear speakers in the rear array.

Due to the learning curve that you have for separates in such a short time, you might be well advised to buy a receiver that will get you up and running in fine style... and then, as your knowledge and preferences grow, begin adding such goodies as power amps that can still be run using the receiver as the pre-amp. Klipsch speakers are so efficient that it doesn't take much in the way of watts to have them deliver everything they have.

Well, that's about enough for now. I am sure more folks will be chiming in. We are all pulling for you! -HornEd

[boa12]

just to clarify guys the only discrete 6.1 (which is actually 7 channels including the .1/lfe channel) is done by dts. the only way to get 6.1 discrete channels of playback at this point is to have material encoded in dts es 6.1 discrete & the decoders to do it.

again justin, don't get the # of speakers & channels confused. when they say 7.1 it's not 7.1 channels. w/ the above dts 6.1 discrete it's 6.1 channels. of course you can have 2 rear surround speakers, but at this point they're gonna be playing the exact same material.

just want to point out as this can be confusin when makers start mixin the terms between # of channels & # of speakers. then there's matrixed, delayed, full-range, not full-range. just get into the www.dolby.com & start reading.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[kenratboy]

Being sick is not fun, especially if you have stuff to do, like WORK!!! AHHHHHHH! I have been lucky enough to never be immobilized for more than 24 hours, just luck and genetics I guess-

------------------

Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

[justin_tx_16]

ok, so the new aragon, pricey... but it is an all in one right? amp and decoder and receiver?... well what i mean is that i would get the stage one and say the aragon 2007 right? and they look like a single when set on top of each other... this is $7000 just for the receiver and amp, would I need still an amp for the SVS's (one or two?) or do they have a built in amp? i think still i would need another amp right? ugh, this is getting really expensive really fast.

$7000 for 7 speaker RF-7's

$7000 for amp/receiver

$2295 for Dual CS-Ultra Package with 1000 watt amp

$16295 total for the audio portion... not too bad i guess

now i still need money for the dvd player and cd player (no vinyl in this setup) and no SACD for now, just basic CD and DVD, and a computer will also be hooked up to it with 5000+ mp3's, yeah crappy quality but most are 256kbps+ and a projecter and a screen... that is it i guess besides the lighting, but i think we allready got that. laser lights and whatnot.

also, any idea on how to do the fiber optic ceiling? i wanted it to look like stars, but i don't know how i would do this through sheet rock, anyone tried this? got any suggestions?

so, when this is finished... will it beat anyone here? can i use it as major bragging rights? will the ears stop bugging me? will the sky's rain gold, err, copper?

i am sure this will sound great, still not so sure about the center channel, how does that work out in DVD's, is it mixed in the two front R/L speakers?

this is getting real exciting. any ideas on what DVD player, CD player, Projecter, and screen to get? I was told ot get a ... forgot the name, starts with an "R" brand projecter, supposed to be top quality.

thanks again, especially for pulling for me. hopefully i will be able to kick whatever is eating away at me haha... i guess i now know what it feels like to be a BOSE speaker system... like crap

thanks so much once again, I tried to post at the home theater forum, but they always reject my name or something, so I have given up on them. this is my home, my physical home is my home away from home this seems to be my real home hehe.

thanks again.. three time in a row, must be really thankful... or had too much cough medicine and the chills are coming over me haha

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[justin_tx_16]

hey boa, yeah, i have had to correct ppl on that often. 5.1 is 5 discrete channels plus an LFE (.1)

DTS-EX and DD-ES are both 6.1 discrete

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

justin, i just did a shot of nyquil to get in par w/ ye.

remember an a/v//HT receiver is a preamp/processor (decoders)/tuner/amp all in one. a pre/pro is usually all of those but w/o the amp. so you get either a pre/pro/tuner (or no tuner w/ some) & amp, or you get a reciver. like you mentioned - like the stage one & the aragon 2007.

w/ 5.1 or 6.1 channel material & decoding like DD 5.1 or dts 5.1, 6.1 matrix or discrete, the center is a discrete channel. that is it does NOT derive it's material from the other channels.

prologic decoding takes the mono info from 2 channel material & puts that mono info from both channels into a center speaker.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[boa12]

justin, dolby/thx does ex (w/ matrixed rear surrounds channels) & dts does 6.1 es matrix & 6.1 es discrete.

dts is more accurate in how the channels are produced.

dolby/thx using the term ex 7.1 is what confuses people. they're really only doin 5.1 w/ matrixing of the rear surround from the SR & SL channels.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[justin_tx_16]

oh ic. but with most movies then, how many speakers will play, and the same for music.

i would like all to play in music, but if it is just 4 speaker... i could live with that, should i post these kinda questions in the Aragon forums?

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

like i was sayin all speakers can play whether u playin

a mono record, 2 channel pcm cd music or dts 6.1 es discrete material. the channels though are dependent on the encoding of the material/disks.

this is the place but u really need to check out the www.dolby.com or www.dtsonline.com sites in their tech info sections to start to get the basics. actually here's a good start: http://dolby.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/dolby.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=UiRhzHbg&p_lva=&p_faqid=135&p_created=1013441850&p_sp=cF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTYyJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=

------------------

My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 04-03-2002 at 01:39 AM

[justin_tx_16]

That's a lot of sound...

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

that's a big 10-4 justin! just make sure u place 'em &

power 'em right.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[justin_tx_16]

i went scouring the net for a 7.1 speaker placement diagram, and to no avail. 5.1 and 6.1 are quite easy to setup, but 7.1... where do you put the extra speaker? an 8.1 seems to be easier to setup than a 7.1. someone feel like enlightening me on this? got a pic? horned... did you do this?

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[justin_tx_16]

ok, feeling stupid haha...

do you put three on either side and then a center channel?... 3+3+1=7

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

justin, no more like 3(F&C)+.1(subs)+2(side)+2(rear).

2 rear surround just go behind the sweet spot near the rear wall each at 60 degrees from said sweet spot.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[justin_tx_16]

ok, so more like this?

obviously the sweet spot is just guessed here. that should be easy enough

thanks boa

(hope i finally got it down)

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

[boa12]

yea justin that looks perfect. in theory. for sides you could substitute 2 or 4 rs-7 for the rf-7 but don't tell horned i said that.

a lot depends on your (& mrs robinson's) own sampling & testing. ;

------------------

My Home Systems Page