justin_tx_16 Posted April 3, 2002 Author Share Posted April 3, 2002 hmmmmmmmm so your thinking that i could substitute the two side surrounds for the RS-7? that sounds interesting... don't know why. that would be pretty nice, and would it not disperse the sound better having the two horn tweeters shooting out the sides at a ~45* angle? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 3, 2002 Author Share Posted April 3, 2002 this just in from DOLBY, they emailed me a picture... looks like you were right on Boa ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 What? No mention of La Scala's anywhere?? Could be just what you are looking for on the speaker side of things. Smaller than a KHorn but with plenty of kick and more "placeable". I think you will need your corners for the subs anyway. Just as a matter of interest what projection system are you going to use? This could really blow that budget of yours sky high! I assume we are not talking LCD here. If you are looking at DLP then I suggest you see the new Sim2 Seleco HT300 grand cinema. It is supposed to be the business - but it weighs in at a hefty $15,000. That would be a big whole - add in the Sunfire Grand Cinema amp and a couple of subs (SVS, 18 inch Velodynes W.H.Y.) and things are going to get a bit tight budgetwise. Of course that is where La Scala's and ebay would come in handy. Could be interesting to team a pair of LaScala's up front with a Belle acting as the centre - most of the cinema sound comes through the centre anyway. For rears if the budget permits I would go for another pair of Scala's, if not a pair of Heresy 2's can be had for very little. Maybe Scala's at the back and Heresy's at the sides. Just a thought or 2. ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 As MaxG correctly points out Belle's and LaScala's don't have the corner requirements the might Klipschorn has... and they will soon be back in production. Industrial strength LaScala's are often found behind the perforated screen of upscale movie houses and they don't need the corners like the K-horns do. Three Klipsch Belle's would be even nicer in my book. Justin, as you will note on the Dolby speaker layout diagram you posted above, there is a larger gap between the front array of speakers to the surrounds than there is between the surrounds and the rear effects speakers. The approximate idealized seating for HT in that configuration can be found by forming an equilateral triangle from the front of the main speakers to the rear of your HT char/couch/throne. When using mono-pole speakers (like the RF-7) as side surrounds, I like to place them about a foot or so BEHIND where your head would be in the sweet spot... and because RF-7's are rear ported, they must stand away from the wall... perhaps further than you would like if the room is to be used for dancing. Don't tell Boa I said this, but, if you recall my earlier reply, it was HornEd that suggested that you may want to use RS-7's in the surround positions to provide better coverage for background music and more room to maneuver at parties... they help widen the sweet spot... as do the dual Effects Speakers in a 7.1 configuration in a very large room. There is no substitute for great sound in getting the most out of your HT experience! -HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 04-04-2002 at 11:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 yes, i think i will go with rs-7's as the mid way surrounds right? i think that would be best... and save a grand or so. maxg, yes, we need a nice projecter that can hook to a computer and dvd player and digital cable HDTV (which is two connections, S-Video and the PBR (you know what i mean... 1080i). Thanks for your help on this because projecters... wow, don't know too much about them. also what screen? Ok, so here is what we have decided on so far... 5 RF-7's 2 RS-7's 2 SVS CS Ultra Subs with the amp Aragon Stage One Agagon 2007 Amp Need projecter Need CD player (multidisc, nothing super high quality) Need DVD Player (nice if it were multi disc, progessive) Need screen... clueless on these Need.... am I forgetting something? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Oh yeah, why not the RC-7 for the center? Any reason no one suggested that? It was made for it... Also, the projecter we are looking at now maxg is the Runco, the same one ladyklipschfan has. any comments on that? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 man this is going to be a great system! Runco makes all kinds of great stuff, all their projectors are top notch. Deciding on the exact model will be hard though. DLP, CRT? I don't know, might want to take a look at a dealer. As the center speaker is THE most important in home theater, it needs to be at least as good as the mains. Using an RC-7 is a compromise that takes into account size. But of course and RC-7 will not give you as much performance as a full-blown RF-7. Which means, if you have the room and the money, go with the RF-7 in the center. Not only that, but you'll be absolutely certain that all your front soundstage will be EXACTLY tonally matched. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwillwalk Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Damn Justin i'm going to hear that over here! btw why not add more SVS for the center & rears? ------------------ Main's-JVC Center-Fisher Suround's-Fisher DVD Player-Panasonic Receiver-Sony TV-Philphs 30 inch Sub-I pretend I have a 7 foot SVS tower of power like HornEd. In storage- 1973 Walnut Cornwalls 1980 Walnut Hersey II's 1999 Mahogany KLF-30's 1999 Mahogany KLF-C7 2001 Black Ash RB-5's 2001 Black Ash RC-3 Receiver-Yamaha 995 DVD Player-Toshiba 3109 T.V.-Toshiba 52 inch 2 KSW 15's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Seb speaks the truth, Justin... with a perforated screen you can mount a full RF-7 and get all the sound the way that the engineers who mix the movies intended it. Most people do not have the space and many people don't have the money and so they are forced to compromise. Why have a beautiful Home Theater and Party Room only to settle for a compromise for the one speaker that will have to deliver over 75% of the sound from every movie you watch. You have shown a lot of good sense in your 5,000 posts... but putting an RC-7 where an RF-7 truly belongs will not be an example of good sense. Two things will really make your system stand out... having a center that is equal to the finest speaker you have (for it is THE MAIN for HT) and having a bass system that will provide the Dolby Minimum Level for commercial theaters... and a pair of SVS Ultras with a Samson 1000 watt pro amplifier will do that. There are more things that I can think of, but it is probably better for you to save some funds for the expense of a projector and perforated screen. Q-man and I have built theaters your size and larger... our advice is based on actually building higher end theaters and not just good intentions and vicarious adventure. Good luck with your project...but don't swallow that weaker center strategy... it will take the bold heart out of your system and leave it far more ordinary than it could have been. If you are trying to pinch pennies, skip the extra rear speaker and put the savings into getting an RF-7 for a center worthy of the time and investment in that soon to be magical room. -HornEd PS: This makes it 1111 posts in one year... which goes to prove HornEd is no Justin! This message has been edited by HornEd on 04-04-2002 at 08:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 sorry he but i gotta take you up on this compromise w/ an rc-7 or C7 thing. i'm in a riled mood. 1st i think we both agree that it's best to cut the large towers including the klf-30C at the best place we can (50hz give or take & 90hz fixed in your case), & send that lower bass to our subs. now if the rc-7 & C7 both have horns that are pretty well timbre matched to the mains, what real advantage is there to having such a big center? my point is a C7 cut at 90hz is going to have about the same low bass (<90hz) spl as a klf-30C cut at 90hz. now if you're sayin the C7 is not as good a timbre match as the klf-30C, I can handle that. but i don't think that applies to the rc-7/rf-7 match up. jmo, peace love, you know i'm just playing devil's advocate. but actually i guess i'm a lil territorial & fly off when somebody says i'm compromising w/ my set-up. same as somebody claimin a $300 sub like unit can beat the pants off my $2250 sub. may be true, but i'd just like to be convinced & the debate is fun anyway. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Boa, I welcome a challenge for if I am wrong, I learn something... and knowing what works is more important to me than my oft trampled ego. You know, of course, that I replaced my KLF-C7 with a custom KLF-30... and the benefits were far greater than mere timbre matching on HT... the whole front array was lifted to a higher level of performance. People who haven't tried it have no idea of what a difference three matched mains can make. I have since experimented with a special three RF-7 array at my local dealers (where I have spent over $20k in the last year or so). I had an acquaintance (i.e., someone who hasn't been invited to my HT) who was buying a pair of RF-7's on my recommendation but was hesitant to spend the extra dough for another pair of RF-7's for the front and rear centers. We hooked up one of his newly purchased RF-7's on an A/B switch with the RC-7... and used the store's demo RF-7's as the L & R mains. The store's demo Denon 5800 was used in the test since this fellow had just bought one of those as well. There were no budget problems with this guy... he just thought that an RF-7 in the center was overkill... and, frankly, so did the salesman! The results were so dramatic that the store manager and all the salesmen took turns hearing the dramatic difference of putting your best speaker in the most demanding 5.1 (and above) place. Needless to say, the guy bought the RF-7 for a center on the spot. And the staff of the Good Guys store no longer think I am quite as peculiar as they once did. Oh, BTW, I recommended that the fellow use a pair of KS-7 surrounds due to his room layout and systems use. So, Boa, see if you can round up an RF-7 front line and put on a great DVD and hear it for yourself. You won't be disappointed. Oh, and Justin, if your still reading this... if you order a pair of SVS Ultras you will get them with the new SS drivers... the same ones that go into the $5k SVS subwoofer. Of course, the SS series comes in a wood veneer that can match your RF-7's. The Ultras are the economy version of the SS. I mentioned your situation to Tom Vodhanel (the "V" in SVS) today... so feel free to email him if you have any questions. Well, enough of this, I am going to put on "Grateful DAWG" and relax with a cool one. In case you missed it, it is almost all music with Jerry Garcia and David Grisman doing a wide range of elegant acoustic instruments... guitar, mandolin, banjo... on a 5.1 DVD that includes very rare tracks. Great opportunity to watch the synergy between outstanding musicians. -HornEd PS: Boa, I think the main performance difference is that the larger cabinet volume and woofer area of the mains simply do a better job at center where the majority of the sound comes out of a 5.1 (or above) DVD. Although I would agree that the RC-7 matches the RF-7 better than the KLF-C7 matches the KLF-30's. I have also tested my Academy between the 30's... it's good but it doesn't come close to the real thing! This message has been edited by HornEd on 04-04-2002 at 11:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 ok ed that's convincing. but i think what you need to really take advantage of those big speaks including the klf-30C is flexible bass mgmt. believe me i didn't know how restrained my 30s were in that 2nd octave until i got this pre/pro that takes the high pass down to 50 or 40hz. 30s handle the 2nd oct which u know they can do quite well & the sub handles the 1st. like you say bass can be directional below 80hz too. seems to be a much more even room response this way too. i know yammy has those front effects. but is yammy putting out 1 w/ flexible crossovers as well as front effects yet? or maybe a new power amp w/ crossover controller like the outlaw icbm is in order. anyway, what i was getting at really is that big matched centers really are good, but hate to see those getting restrained by a fixed 90 or 80hz fixed high pass. hope you enjoyed jerry & the boys & that cold 1! ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 ok, so now i am back to an at least 5 speaker RF-7, should i still use RS-7 for the sides? i think that would spread the sound better. one thing i am kinda worried about, the Aragon 2007 has 200 watts to 7 channels (wow, that is a lot of power)... that will not harm the RS-7's which don't take in a .......... awwwwwwwww forget that. when am I going to put 200 watts continueus through all 7 speakers... and live to tell about it. sorry, omit that ? so... 5 RF-7, 2 RS-5, and the two SVS subs... how much is the SS sub? is it dramatically more? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Justin, try this http://www.svsubwoofers.com/ and look up the Ultra and SS models. Lots of cubic inches plus a high end driver is the starting point for great bass designs. It is the nature of a cylinder to resist flexing... a lot of the expense of higher end subs is a reflection of the high cost of producing rectangular cabinets with minimal flex under the pressure of first and second octave bass at adequate sound levels. The Ultra is about great bass... and the SS is about the same great bass with a wood veneer that can be matched to the veneer of the RF-7's that you choose. SVS also has a couple of power amplifier choices to consider... the Samson 1000 provides 500 watts of power each to two SVS subwoofers, its fans are dead quiet, and its a pro style amp. The Crown K1 is a pro amp that is $600 more than the Samson... it also puts out 500watts each to two subs and is so well designed it doesn't need fans under normal circumstances! A pair of Ultras with a Samson will cost about half as much as a pair of SS's with a Crown K1. But since they use the same drivers and cubic inches... the clean, musical bass will be very close to most ears IMHO. Boa, I agree with you whole heartedly on the bass management issue and expect to visit that issue in depth when I move into new digs later this year. The 7' dual Ultra tower creates such clean, tight, musical bass without apparent localization and has such a smooth integration with the KLF-30's that I haven't even hooked up my equalizer! I'm just enjoying great sound for now and will reserve the major tweaking for the new residence. BTW, if I hadn't have run across SVS on this forum I would likely have an HGS 18 in my HT as we speak... and it would have cost less than I spent for two subs and a power amp delivered to San Francisco. So you wont find me knocking your Velo! I also must commend Klipsch on a much more musical sub offering. I had some what of a rough night and didn't finish composing the email on the Klipsch photo shortcuts that were developed for C&S... but it is high on my list. -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 yeah, i went and took a look at the SS... twice the price at the least. ouch. gonna keep the Ultras and since you here horned, i was driving to Camp Allen in Navasota texas a few months ago, while driving I caught a great sunset in a kodak disposable camera. i think it came out pretty nice for a disposable. This is from Highway 290 North. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Great shot, Justin... especially for a disposable. I sure do miss Texas skies like that. I keep an Oly C-3030z in my car to catch shots like that. That one looks like it could be fun to play with... like using some of the special effects in PhotoShop. Good decision on the subs. Personally, I think a pair of Ultras with the new driver are a runaway winner in the subwoofer arena. -HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 and to think i was going 85... errr i mean 65 when i took that picture feeling much better today, first day with no fever. sure is great. it is also one of the most beautiful days in texas since a LONG time. just took two pictures to show it. back to the HT. Now I just need to figure the costs of everything else and make sure it all fits in the price. my dealer suggested the Runco, i will probably go with that. i think he will finish off with the suggestions like that and the screen, still would like you ppl's input on a multi disc dvd player (or single) and cd player. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Nice pics! Being sick is horrible! I have never seen a front projector in action! I need to remedy that! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Guest Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Beautiful pictures Justin....looks professional. Can't wait to see pics of the HT when you get it together.. ------------------ The token female for the Klipsch Fan Club Tour 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 justin, unless you really do need to stay in the klipsch family, the aragon stuff, though i'm sure it's great stuff, should not be set in stone (unlike the speakers & subs ). lot of great gear to shop around for. but fact is i've only seen the stage one & aragon amp on paper so far... has anybody tried &/or heard them yet? oh steve p... ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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