JoshT Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Hello Folks, I just returned the Cary SLI-80 Integrated Tube Amplifier to Spearat Sound (f/k/a Goodwins Audio) after a Saturday night/Sunday home audition. In a nutshell, though it was quite fun to listen to, I am awfully happy I brought this home for the weekend rather than buying it based on my audition at the dealer. Phew! I used it with my newly acquired used Heresy IIs (see other posts) and a Sony S7700 DVD player as CD player. I listened extensively to rock, blues and jazz, and less so to classical. Here is what I found: This amp is quite an impressive powerhouse in both PP and triode modes. I was immediately surprised by its speed and the sense of control it had over the Heresys. This was not what I expected from tubes. In push pull/ultralinear mode, the bass was noticeably deeper and tighter than in triode mode, but overall the sound was less rich. Bass guitar and drums sounded wonderful; piano and sax sounded unnatural. Piano was muted and the sax sounded sort of squeeky. Highlights: Led Zeplin II, which was just so awesome on this combo, and Luther Allisaon live blues. The Heresys sounded like electric guitar tube amps right in my living room. Sweet. Lowpoints: most everything else sounded sort of glary and thin. In triode mode, the bass was much less articulate, and electric guitar, while still nice, wasn't as engaging. But everything else sounded fuller and more natural. Piano and sax sounded very nice. At times I felt like the sound was more nature than I'd heard from a recording before, but then I would notice something strange. Overall, this amp seemed to color the sound of the music, in one way or another, no matter which way the SE/PP toggle switches were pushed. It was fun, and sometimes sounded great, but no way could I live with this little beast. If it cost $1,o00 or less maybe I would buy it for kicks, but $3,000 is just too much. In fairness, I only listened to the amp on this one system (at home). Perhaps with other speakers it would sound better. And in any event, I paid $400 for the Heresys, so it would be a bit excessive to pay $3,000 for an amp unless it was truly magical. Also, I am perhaps even more interested in tubes now, not less. I just think I have to go a more budget route for these speaks, like maybe try the Wave 8s or a Jolida, or something used but reconditioned. Thanks to the folks at Spearat for the free ride though. I will continue my quest to learn more and find a better match. For now, the Heresys sound fine on rotel/sherwood newcastle ss equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 JoshT Great review there ! I have heresy I's and use a KSW-15 sub with a HH Scott 299 vintage tube amp. I wish you could audition mine. You would I think start searching Ebay. But then again maybe your not a fixer upper type I don't know. It does sound real sweat and I would say it strongest point is real active 70's Horn , Piano and Guitar Rock music like Bruce springsteen , Billy Joel, Steve miller , Led Zepplin, Pink floyd and Elton John and on and on I listen to it all and mostly on Vinyl. Of coarse it may be great at classical to but I personnally don't go there. Good luck in your search for the perfect Tube Amp Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table Grado cartridge Sony CDP315 CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 nice review Josh I just bought the Dennis Hadd (Cary Audio) modified AE-25 off of Audiogon for $1000. I'm really happy with this amp. http://131.103.202.229/ampl2/ampl2.html ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Hi Guys, Thanks for the feedback, which is exactly the type of information I'm fishing for. NOS440, the idea of vintage gear does appeal to me, but I really am not a DIY type, so I'm not sure it would be a good route. Still, it would be cool to hook Heresys up to a Scott, Fischer or the like. Dean, I am very intrigued by that amplifier. Do you know the list price for the factory assembled versions currently (base, SE and DH's modified version)? I suppose the top of the line fully assembled model would approach the cost of the SLI-80, which would be sort fos self-defeating. Looks like you got a great price. Also, do you run it in triod or ultralinear? Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Actually, the full blown version is $2000. You can also buy these from Upscale Audio. The following link shows you the pricing options. http://www.upscaleaudio.com/ These amps are not switchable between pentode and triode. They come wired in triode only. Each step up gives you a little more power. With the efficiency of the Heresys, and the fact that you don't want to bankrupt yourself -- why not just buy the base model for $1200? Or -- since I want to upgrade to the DJH version -- why not buy mine for $975. It comes with the upgraded oil filled caps, Kimber power cord, and has a built in volume control so you can run it CD direct. You can also use a preamp -- you just have to turn the volume control knob all the over. ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 04-02-2002 at 12:27 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Interesting offer Dean. So I understand, yours corresponds to the $1400 version? Couple of questions -- how many line inputs? Looks like only one, so if you want to run more than one source (e.g. a CD player) you must use a preamp. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 The main difference between mine and the $1400 version is that mine is still 15 watts instead of 20. The previous owner ordered the standard version, but had them perform the oil and film cap upgrade, install the volume control knob, and send along a Kimber power cord.f>s> It has just the two inputs (L/R) -- so you would need a preamp if you wanted to use more sources than a CD player. The inputs are very nice. They are Kimber single ended inputs and are very solid -- not like the chinzy, gold plated inputs you usually see on audio equipment.f>s> I do not remember with absolute certainty - but I think this amp with the mods and power cord was almost $1500. I would sure hate to part with that power cord -- I'm sure it's the reason the amp sounds so good.f>s> ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c> -- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 04-02-2002 at 02:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 JoshT, I have not heard the AES AE-25 Superamp but I am using the AES AE-3 Superpreamp (DJH version) driving my Welborne Labs Moondogs. The preamp is a great little preamp! It uses 6SN7 tubes and has proven to be a great combo when used with my Moondogs. I am not a big audiophile, but I do think the AES offerings are a great bang for your buck. ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connects DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Thanks Dean and Edster for your thoughts. The power cord is everything! Ha, ha. Seriously, though . . . Dean your offer is tempting. And it sounds like the AE3 might be the perfect pre-amp for that amp. Jeez -- all the choices though, and actually these get pretty expensive with all of the options (at least to drive $400 used Heresy IIs). If I go this route, I might get the preamp with remote (but nothing else) and the base AE-25 without volume control. Even that gets me up to $2,417 if I'm reading correctly. Of course if I buy the AE-25 from Dean then I'm down to about $2,200 with some extra goodies. What about the AE3 with those ASL Wave 8 monoblocks? That would be like $1,217 with the remote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 You don't need no stinkin remotef>s> I don't know much about the Wave 8's -- however, I have heard that ASL has been plagued with some quality control problems as of late. Hard to go wrong with the price though.f>s> If you are going to go on the cheap -- you might as well go all ASL or even maybe a Jolida integrated.f>s> I think to benefit the most from what the Heresys have to offer -- you should stay all class A triode if you can. I had been running the Anthem Amp1 (EL-34 tubes running in ultralinear) with the Anthem Pre1L (6922 based Line stage) for a while -- and the Super Amp walked all over it. It was a not so subtle differencef>s> ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s>Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 04-02-2002 at 07:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 I'll tell you...I am considering sending my Preamp back to get the remote added (only $500 LOL). I have remote on my Creek OBH-12 and it sure is nice to sit back and adjust the volume from my chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Hey Ed -- shhhh! You'll blow my sale ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Well guys, one way or another I need the remote. So, it's either (1) use the AE-25 with an AE-3 with remote, or (2) get an AE-25 with remote if that is even available (but I'm not sure it is), or (3) maybe use the little Creek with the AE-25, or (4) . . . errr do something totally different!! The AE-25 with the AE-3 with remote seems like a cool set-up, though less budget than I would ideally want for something sight unseen for use with $400 speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Josh, Check out the Cary website. There is a phone # there ask for Kirk...see if they can do a remote on the AE-25. (How's that deang?? ) All kidding aside check out the reviews on the AE-25, I think it is a giant killer at its price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Josh - don't buy new. There is just no reason to. The deals on used equipment are simply incredible. I realize you have a minimal investment in the Heresys -- and from your point of view it probably seems to make sense to not go completely overboard with your front end investment. Why not just go with some used ASL stuff just to give you an idea of what tubes can do? If you like it and decide you might want to upgrade -- you can easily sell it for what you paid for it. There are several other options as well. If you don't want to go with the retro look -- you can pick up an Anthem Amp1 and Pre2L (has remote) for about $1200. It's a great sound -- just not as detailed as the triode offerings. Whatever you do - it's hard to go completely wrong. Personally -- I will never go back to solid state. ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Josh, I also have a pair of $400 Heresy's. I am using AES-AE3 modified pre amp. I like it alot. I'm using a Parasound HCA1500A amp. It sounds really good to me. I didn't get the remote. The upgraded version was about $1,100. If I had it to do over again I'd do the same upgrade except I wouldn't get the JAN 6SN7WGT tubes from AES. They were $150. I think you can get a better price on the tubes. I am ordering the feet to replace the stock ones. I bought a pair of Waves. I took them out of the system until I move (the end of this month). I had too much hiss. Was driving me crazy. I have bought new resistors and caps to do the Wave mod. Hope it works out for you. Dean if the Waves don't improve after the mod and you still have the amp in a month I'll call you. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 But before you go racing off thinking you have made a decision or anything. Take a look at some of the DECWARE products - http://www.decware.com/tubes.htm Their Model SE84-CS is particularly interesting at $695!! They have a full range of stuff, including the pre that I own. Seem to be good value for money and around the budgets you are talking about. I havent heard any of the amps though - no-one here has them so I would love your input if you find something - I too own Heresy's!! ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 JoshT, I have a couple of amps you might be interested in trying. One in a pair of Heath W5Ms I've rewired to class A PP (KT66), triode mode, no feedback. Also, I have a Tripath TA1101B implementation (TA1101B is an integrated circuit made by Tripath). I live in Waltham If you're close by, maybe we could work something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 Oh my goodness. Oh boy. Too much information -- sensory overload! Yikes! So, now I have to decide between (1) the AES stuff, which alone is confusing because of all the options that add up to more $$$, (2) the ASL stuff, which is really priced nicely but gets mixed reviews from the folks out in cyberland (QC and noise issues), (3) the Decaware Zen stuff (which looks really great on their website), (4) some combination of one of the above preamps and a solid state power amp (maybe the CJ MF2250 with an AES preamp, or maybe with the CJ PV14L preamp???), or (5) some other combination of the foregoing, or (6) taking leok up on his offer, because Waltham is near by and the price might be right, or (7) something else that I'm sure someone else will now suggest. AAARG. In all seriousness, this is a lot of fun and I really thank you all for the input! So, leok, please describe for me what you have for sale (as though to a child because I really am new to tubes). Since I bought the Heresys used from the trunk of a car in Maine, it seems only fitting to drive them with a used amplifier from Waltham! :-) But I'm not sure what you are describing (unlike the Heresys, which I'd wanted since junior high in the late 1970s/early 1980s). And Maxg (or anyone else who wants to chime in), please tell me what you know about the Decaware Zen stuff, because I really found their website to be fascinating but know nothing about it. I am particularly interested in the $1,500 integrated amp they offer (the SE34-I). Phew -- I'm exhausted! Time to go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Hello JoshT Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking you could try the Heaths just to hear that type of amplification and get another tube reference. The Heaths aren't for sale. The Tripath amp is a completely different technology. You might like it .. I think it's great. Again, I wasn't thinking of selling one, but, in that case I could probably work one up if you really wanted one. First, however, you might want to just listen, with no pressure to buy. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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