Super Heresys

[ClaudeJ1]

OK, so in the intererst of "downsizing" my all horn setup for all additional channels (my Avatar shows my R and L horn stacks in my HT), I pullout out my "Cheap Scalas" otherwise known as Peavey SP-1's with their superior bass bin design and CD horn. With a future addition of a "coffee table" Tapped Horn Subwoofer (18 foot 1/4 wave/34 foot 1/2 wave)with 80 Hz. cutoff, I have been buying used Heresy's for surrounds and one pair of Forte's, which I upgraded with the excellent Crites Titatnium Tweeter Diaphragms. For center channel duty, I'm still using Forte's but I plan on having all Heresy centers and surrounds for 6.1 and moving my Forte's upstairs for 2 channel vinyl listening and digitzing.

I recently purchased some oddball used Klipsch components on Ebay:

1 Pair of K22K Heresy woofers.

1 Pair of Tractrix Mid Horn/K61K drivers from a Forte II

1 pair of HWO Heresy 1 boxes from 1980 ("U" date code). These were still made out of solid poplar core/walnut veneer (same as Khorn, Belles, and Cornwalls), not MDF........probably not much difference sonically, however, in such a small box.

1 pair of used K76K tweeters from Heresy II. I will upgrade these with Crites Titanium Diaphragms. Quick Side Note: When I met Jim Hunter back in 1985, he told me it was difficult for him to design a tweeter that was as good or better than a K77 (used in all pre 1985 Heritage products), but since it didn't need as much output for the Heresy II, it went out to a full 20Khz. whereas the K77 rolled at about 16-17Khz. (none of which I can hear anyhow).

2 AA networks with spare T2A's, etc. which I will use to create a hybrid Xover, taken from all the classic schematics, between a Forte II (mid) and a Heresy 1 woofer, and a Heresy II tweeter. I have adequate test equipment, good program material, my Heresy 1.5's, and Forte's for comparison.

I plan to cut a larger offset opening on the H1 front baffle to accomodate the Forte II horn so I still have space for the tweeter. It will be tight, but should end up sounding a lot better than the original Heresy 1 or II.

May the force be with me.

[Guest " "]

Sounds good. Thinking of something similar.

[Guest David H]

Nice, I'll check back to see your progress.

Dave

[Daddy Dee]

Claude,

Post pics when you can.

I'm sure you've done the math, but I'm still trying to imagine fitting that horn in a heresy motorboard.

Would imagine that the sound will be very good. That's a nice mid horn.

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude,

Post pics when you can.

I'm sure you've done the math, but I'm still trying to imagine fitting that horn in a heresy motorboard.

Would imagine that the sound will be very good. That's a nice mid horn.

With all the hoopla and hullaballoo about that particular horn and tractrix horns in general, this was the cheapest/easiest way for me to try one. It doesn't measure as well as I though it would, but I think there may be some compensation for the mating drivers that go with it. Compared to the really really BIG horns that I have owned, this is all "miniature" stuff to me if you don't count my Klipsch computer speakers. I used to demo Heresy's on top of Khorns back in the late 70's. With about a 3 o'clock bass boost on my MacIntosh C26 pre amp, most people thought the Khorns were playing and not the Heresy's.

As a Wedding photographer, I once heard a DJ with just a pair of Heresy's and a Crown amp shaking up the dance floor (much better than the Bose 802's of those bygone days). My own DJ system was just a pair of LaScalas, but I digress.

I gave Heresy's to my Son and my oldest daughter after getting some for my wife at the time. Like PWK always said: "The Midrange is where we live."

This is why my R and L channels have the incredible Peavey MB-1 horn (200-1Kz.) and the amazing JBL 2360A with their 2446 diamond titatnium driver (poor man't TAD driver). I am convinced that the bigger the horn, the better the horn, and that goes for throat size in the midrange along with a straight axis as low as possible. This is why I like MWM bass over corner horn bass.....only 2 flods instead of 3.....make a difference on the immediacy and inner detail of the sound, but looks ugly as all getout.

[Guest " "]

"The Midrange is where we live."

so true

A large throat horn that can reach as low as a k-55 would be super. I have k-1132's, k-69's, and have had altec's, acr's, rcf's, etc. to my ears, none sound like they live in the lower mid range as the k-55 does.

[ClaudeJ1]

"The Midrange is where we live."

so true

A large throat horn that can reach as low as a k-55 would be super. I have k-1132's, k-69's, and have had altec's, acr's, rcf's, etc. to my ears, none sound like they live in the lower mid range as the k-55 does.

That's because the darn K55 goes down to 100 Hz.(amazingly) so the horn is high pass, but at that frequency it would be severely limited in SPL in a bigger horn. My Peavey MB1's have a 12" cone with a 4" Voice Coil and can handle gobs of power. They have phase plugs in a 6" throat that take them out to 1.2 Khz. very flat. Since MOST of the music is 2 octaves above and below 440 hz. this thing has been and still is a major step forward in sonic nirvana for me. It hands off the rest of the work to the MWMs and the big JBL.......all first order with all VC's lined up within 1/4 wave.

[bigrfish]

Claude, Post pics when you can. I'm sure you've done the math, but I'm still trying to imagine fitting that horn in a heresy motorboard. Would imagine that the sound will be very good. That's a nice mid horn.

With all the hoopla and hullaballoo about that particular horn and tractrix horns in general, this was the cheapest/easiest way for me to try one. It doesn't measure as well as I though it would, but I think there may be some compensation for the mating drivers that go with it. Compared to the really really BIG horns that I have owned, this is all "miniature" stuff to me if you don't count my Klipsch computer speakers. I used to demo Heresy's on top of Khorns back in the late 70's. With about a 3 o'clock bass boost on my MacIntosh C26 pre amp, most people thought the Khorns were playing and not the Heresy's.

As a Wedding photographer, I once heard a DJ with just a pair of Heresy's and a Crown amp shaking up the dance floor (much better than the Bose 802's of those bygone days). My own DJ system was just a pair of LaScalas, but I digress.

I gave Heresy's to my Son and my oldest daughter after getting some for my wife at the time. Like PWK always said: "The Midrange is where we live."

This is why my R and L channels have the incredible Peavey MB-1 horn (200-1Kz.) and the amazing JBL 2360A with their 2446 diamond titatnium driver (poor man't TAD driver). I am convinced that the bigger the horn, the better the horn, and that goes for throat size in the midrange along with a straight axis as low as possible. This is why I like MWM bass over corner horn bass.....only 2 flods instead of 3.....make a difference on the immediacy and inner detail of the sound, but looks ugly as all getout.

Claude,

You say you like the MWM bass over the K-horn bass. I am curious if you have heard the "closed back" K-horn bass bin? My friend the Cigar Bum, who lives in the bear country of North Georgia and from whom I got my CornScala cabinets has a pair of them, and they are noteworthy, so musical...

Please keep us posted on the H's...like to hear how that all shakes out.

Happy Holidays,

Chuck

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude,

You say you like the MWM bass over the K-horn bass. I am curious if you have heard the "closed back" K-horn bass bin? My friend the Cigar Bum, who lives in the bear country of North Georgia and from whom I got my CornScala cabinets has a pair of them, and they are noteworthy, so musical...

Please keep us posted on the H's...like to hear how that all shakes out.

Happy Holidays,

Chuck

It's partially because I have my Mid Bass horns doing so much of the work that was normally relegated to the Khorns I had for 30 years. I'm crossing the MWMs at180 Hz. and I tried the same with Khorn bins. Still think the MWMs sound "tighter" Also because I'm pretty sure that the time alignment is closer to the midbass horn, since I have the backs of the MWMs about 1.5 out of the corners where I have the Voice Coil from the Midbass positioned.

If I had Khorns again, I would probably end up with the Vtrac mod with 2" throat and Active Xover with time delays......probably the only Way I would go back, or add a small midbass horn and make my Khorns a 4-way while keeping the large JBL 2360's......may still do that in the future, but I will still have a tapped or folded horn sub like the Tuba HT below 40 Hz.

Meanwhile, standard Heresy 1.5's are pretty darn good as center and surrounds for 5.0 as I build my coffee table "0.1" tapped horn sub with the LAB 12 driver.

[ClaudeJ1]

OK, so it looks like I'll be modifying TWO pairs of Heresey's.

I'll be able to hack open (cut with a sabre saw or router) the front panel of a Heresy 1.5 to accomodate a Forte II/Chorus II mid horn and driver, along with a K-75K tweeter with the Crites Titatnium Diaphragms........the same one I'm using in my Forte's or I may just use some K77's.

I currently have 3 pairs of Heresy's. One pair (HOO) will be left as sound reference stock 1.5's (K-77-M tweeters and K22 woofers make them differenct from the Heresy II, since they both use the samd midrange horn/driver). Heresy I cabs, that I just got metal K700's for, will most likely become the same as the reference pair since the HWO cabinets I bought empty are in good shape and can use the Heresy 1.5 horn from my beat up ones.

Effecively, I will have a 600 Hz. Tractrix mid horn with a K77 mounted vertically next to the mid, making assymetrical R and L speakers. This way I can have tweeters in or tweeters out.

[djk]

"I'll be able to hack open (cut with a sabre saw or router) the front
panel of a Heresy 1.5 to accomodate a Forte II/Chorus II mid horn and
driver, along with a K-75K tweeter"

Are you sure there is room?

[ClaudeJ1]

"I'll be able to hack open (cut with a sabre saw or router) the front
panel of a Heresy 1.5 to accomodate a Forte II/Chorus II mid horn and
driver, along with a K-75K tweeter"

Are you sure there is room?

Jammed in upper corners, yes. The K77 will have to mount vertically from the inside, the Tractrix from the outside in.

[ClaudeJ1]

"I'll be able to hack open (cut with a sabre saw or router) the front
panel of a Heresy 1.5 to accomodate a Forte II/Chorus II mid horn and
driver, along with a K-76K tweeter"

Are you sure there is room?

Just barely, yes.